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Topbox said:
Looks serious. Forgiveness but group N? Is that a rally car group?
Yep, in the 80's there was the all out Grp B cars, when they were banned the FIA went for Group A and Group N. Group N was commonly shown as the showroom class, and in it's early years the cars had to be pretty exactly the same as the road cars, where as the Grp A's were the Colin McRae style full on cars. Group A cars were subesequently superceeded by WRC cars. Group N was up of 4 classes - N1 up to 1400, N2 1600, N3 2L, N4 2L+. In rallying all turbo cars engine capacity are multiplied by a factor of 1.8 so all Scoobs, Mitsi, Cosworths etc ran in N4. In the early days the car were very much standard road cars - you even needed to have the carpets and rear seats still in place. However over time they have become more raw, the manufacturers were allowed to homologate special parts.
Ours is an early 2000 car so has different suspension, with a heavily re-mapped ECU so it run's anti lag when in the stages. The interior is stripped out with Carbon door cards added and no rear seats or other trim.
The later years pushed the boundries even further with Grp N cars costing £80,000-£90,000 for a top spec one. However with the demise of many 4 wheel drive turbo road cars Group N has suffered and the FIA are now focusing on Group R for the future, which should make things more entertaining, but each time the link between the basic road car and the rally version has got wider and wider. A group R Citreon DS3 is something like £65,000 new - which is clearly very different from it's road going base.
sanf said:
Yep, in the 80's there was the all out Grp B cars, when they were banned the FIA went for Group A and Group N. Group N was commonly shown as the showroom class, and in it's early years the cars had to be pretty exactly the same as the road cars, where as the Grp A's were the Colin McRae style full on cars. Group A cars were subesequently superceeded by WRC cars.
Group N was up of 4 classes - N1 up to 1400, N2 1600, N3 2L, N4 2L+. In rallying all turbo cars engine capacity are multiplied by a factor of 1.8 so all Scoobs, Mitsi, Cosworths etc ran in N4. In the early days the car were very much standard road cars - you even needed to have the carpets and rear seats still in place. However over time they have become more raw, the manufacturers were allowed to homologate special parts.
Ours is an early 2000 car so has different suspension, with a heavily re-mapped ECU so it run's anti lag when in the stages. The interior is stripped out with Carbon door cards added and no rear seats or other trim.
The later years pushed the boundries even further with Grp N cars costing £80,000-£90,000 for a top spec one. However with the demise of many 4 wheel drive turbo road cars Group N has suffered and the FIA are now focusing on Group R for the future, which should make things more entertaining, but each time the link between the basic road car and the rally version has got wider and wider. A group R Citreon DS3 is something like £65,000 new - which is clearly very different from it's road going base.
Good post, enjoyed reading.Group N was up of 4 classes - N1 up to 1400, N2 1600, N3 2L, N4 2L+. In rallying all turbo cars engine capacity are multiplied by a factor of 1.8 so all Scoobs, Mitsi, Cosworths etc ran in N4. In the early days the car were very much standard road cars - you even needed to have the carpets and rear seats still in place. However over time they have become more raw, the manufacturers were allowed to homologate special parts.
Ours is an early 2000 car so has different suspension, with a heavily re-mapped ECU so it run's anti lag when in the stages. The interior is stripped out with Carbon door cards added and no rear seats or other trim.
The later years pushed the boundries even further with Grp N cars costing £80,000-£90,000 for a top spec one. However with the demise of many 4 wheel drive turbo road cars Group N has suffered and the FIA are now focusing on Group R for the future, which should make things more entertaining, but each time the link between the basic road car and the rally version has got wider and wider. A group R Citreon DS3 is something like £65,000 new - which is clearly very different from it's road going base.
k, what a rush.SCOBBYMIKE said:
rb5er said:
Wowsers? 3 engines? 2nd hand scrappy ones?
no mate 1st was in car when got it with a holed piston repared and run for few months before a conrod went through the block seconed i was told was perfect put in ands was knocking like mad 3rd in there now and cant get boost Personally I blame rb5er.....
road hog said:
Sheep in Wolfs clothing..
2.0gx
how can I make it goooo without adding a turbo..?
To be honest, I wouldn't bother. By the time you've spent all the money and time upgrading it you might as well have gotten a turbo. The costs of tuning up the GX would easily cover the cost of a WRX and the insurance, or even a good STi. And once it's tuned, the economy will be even worse. 2.0gx
how can I make it goooo without adding a turbo..?
I had a '55 plate GX hatch earlier this year. It had a stainless steel catback exhaust, and it sounded fantastic. A K&N panel filter at the front allowed it to breath a little easier. It wasn't worth doing anything else with though; getting it cammed and tweaking the valves, gas flowing the head etc etc would have cost loads not added much to the party.
The GX was a stop gap for me, I bought it as a cheap commuter off my dad when I was in a bind and he was looking to sell. I couldn't believe how slow it was. 124bhpm even in a relatively lightweight car like that felt like nothing. It could carry a fair lick over rough B roads when it was stirred up to do so but it redlined at 6000rpm and hated being revved, it was so coarse at the top end. Grip was appreciable, because there wasn't much to overwhelm it though I did find it to be quite tyre sensitive.
The engine was the thing that puzzled me most about it. The 6000rpm ceiling, the woeful power figure, the terrible economy (unless you drove like a saint).
Baryonyx said:
The engine was the thing that puzzled me most about it. The 6000rpm ceiling, the woeful power figure, the terrible economy (unless you drove like a saint).
What kind of pus filled engine did Subaru UK inflict on you? My previous 2.0NA Legacies were 150bhp with 7500 redline (1990, loved to rev) and 155bhp with 7000 redline (1997, not as revvy but a lot torquier). The '97 was pretty good on fuel too, easy mid 30s mpg on a run.Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 5th December 02:26
SCOBBYMIKE said:
no mate 1st was in car when got it with a holed piston repared and run for few months before a conrod went through the block seconed i was told was perfect put in ands was knocking like mad 3rd in there now and cant get boost
Hope you got a refund on the 'repaired' and 'perfect' engines then.Baryonyx said:
The GX was a stop gap for me, I bought it as a cheap commuter off my dad when I was in a bind and he was looking to sell. I couldn't believe how slow it was. 124bhpm even in a relatively lightweight car like that felt like nothing. It could carry a fair lick over rough B roads when it was stirred up to do so but it redlined at 6000rpm and hated being revved, it was so coarse at the top end. Grip was appreciable, because there wasn't much to overwhelm it though I did find it to be quite tyre sensitive. The engine was the thing that puzzled me most about it. The 6000rpm ceiling, the woeful power figure, the terrible economy (unless you drove like a saint).
Baryonyx, you're absolutely right...the 2.0GX is gutless but does it's 'job' rather well. Of course the engine is an old design by modern stds, a low torque short stroke engine designed around being a turbo-charged unit. Therefore in n/a form it was hugely under-stressed but really lacking throughout the rev' range. 0-60 in 9.7secs, top speed 115-120mph? But as a winter snotter they are superb...does everything req'd and more from such a simple car.I regularly get calls from owners of N/A Subaru and i tell them all the same thing. It's just not worth it for the cost of a remap unless you get a shed load of head work done, bigger valves, decent exhaust system, induction kit, etc... etc... And even then a remap will only realise so much.
You could save yourself a lot of money by just buying a turbo'd version of your machine in the first place. That extra 50bhp from the factory turbo's over the N/A cars makes all the difference performance wise.
The thing is there is something to be said for the N/A versions as they really are unstressed as has already been said and should in theory last considerably longer than the FI versions with regular servicing. When the weather is rubbish do you really need more than 150bhp. I don't think 0-60 in a car like a Forester is at all important and under 10 seconds is IMHO just fine.
Enjoy your N/A Forester for what it is. An immensely capable go anywhere 4x4 MPV/SUV/Estate that will give you faithful and reliable service day in day out throughout it's lifetime. What more do you want?
You could save yourself a lot of money by just buying a turbo'd version of your machine in the first place. That extra 50bhp from the factory turbo's over the N/A cars makes all the difference performance wise.
The thing is there is something to be said for the N/A versions as they really are unstressed as has already been said and should in theory last considerably longer than the FI versions with regular servicing. When the weather is rubbish do you really need more than 150bhp. I don't think 0-60 in a car like a Forester is at all important and under 10 seconds is IMHO just fine.
Enjoy your N/A Forester for what it is. An immensely capable go anywhere 4x4 MPV/SUV/Estate that will give you faithful and reliable service day in day out throughout it's lifetime. What more do you want?
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