How bad is the 2.0 n/a for daily use really? Downgrading ..
Discussion
Hello .. I posted this a while back in GG but thought I'd post this here amoungst us fellow Subaru enthusiasts 'cos I want to know specifically how usable is the 2.0 n/a engine in the Impreza and Forester as a runabout.
Ok. Current situation is this.
Over the past 10 years I have always had WRXs of some sort and enjoyed them. I
I currently have an '06 Subaru Hawkeye WRX Wagon. When I bought it 10 months ago I spent money on it to get it the way I want it.. the usual best tyres , upgraded ARBs , different exhaust etc.
My car:
I currently only use it maybe only twice a week , and haven't even put 3k miles on it. Now I do like it , but the trouble is, I think I'm getting old ( well I'm 40 but I dont feel it yet
) and sensible ..
- The state of the roads these days is pretty bad , and I'm feeling every damnable bump/pothole/ridge
Altho' it is only 20 mins or so to my work it is tiring and is grating on me. The car is on standard 17s so there isn't anything I can do about that.
- When I do use it I don't/cant use it's performance , really use it for going to work ( motorway and 30mph roads ) and the odd trip at the weekend. I don't do hooning any more either
.. I just don't see the appeal any more due to stricter speed-limit enforcing , other idiot drivers , the roads , and the cost of petrol ( Ok .. I'll hand my PH membership card on the way out! )
So really I feel the car is wasted on me . If I lived out in the sticks where there's great roads to appreciate the handling then it'd be different.
The other factor in this is yearly costs. Now I knew what I'd be paying out in a year, but I'm wondering now is it REALLY worth paying the following out on a lovely performance car when I don't use the performance :
- Insurance renewal in 2 months time circa £700
- RFL due in 2 months .. £455
- Always having to use Momentum99 @ £1.46 a litre really @ 24mpg means £20-£30 every time I use it makes me not want to use it!
- Always in the back of my mind impending HGF or Ringland failure in the 2.5
So, I really dont know what to do . Stick with it or change. I don't have any money to put into the pot either .
My thoughts .. I don't want to leave the Subaru brand for 2 reasons .. 1 is that I like Subarus and I know them well , and 2 - if I go elsewhere the price I get offered for my car is comical .. usually CAP (or less from a Skoda dealer!).
So I did a rough comparison and worked out I could change to an Impreza RX n/a 2.0 Wagon or a Forester of same age circa 2007 ( Legacy 2.0 is too big really and lethargic for a car that size) for the same money.
Example of said RX :
or Forester:
The Pros:
- Running on 16s so more sidewall to absorb the bumps .. even more so on the Forester
- RX is a year younger and same miles / Forester about the same albeit more miles
- Forester has leather and comfier seats than Impreza, cruise etc
- Insurance much cheaper.. £270 a year!
- RFL £270 a year
- Dont have to use Momentum99
- Slightly better mpg .. anythings better than at best 24!
Cons:
- The RX and Forester don't have that "presence" or noise that the WRX does .. but then again , I just want a nice car to go from A to B
- I'd probably regret it after
- I'd miss that "shove" that I CAN use if I want to.
Lastly there is also another Forester for the same money but with the Auto gearbox . Of all the 11 or so Subarus I've had I haven't had 1 of these .. and am thinking maybe stay away .. I know it's a 4 speed , but would be handy to hear other peoples opinions on it.
So.. Has anyone else "down-graded"? Anyone else run a 2.0 RX/GX if a Bloboeye or a 2.0 Forester? A 2.0 XT would be a good shout but they're quite rare and holding their value too well.
Apologies for the ramble .. I'm just so torn and undecided what to
All opinions and advice appreciated.
Steve
Ok. Current situation is this.
Over the past 10 years I have always had WRXs of some sort and enjoyed them. I
I currently have an '06 Subaru Hawkeye WRX Wagon. When I bought it 10 months ago I spent money on it to get it the way I want it.. the usual best tyres , upgraded ARBs , different exhaust etc.
My car:
I currently only use it maybe only twice a week , and haven't even put 3k miles on it. Now I do like it , but the trouble is, I think I'm getting old ( well I'm 40 but I dont feel it yet
) and sensible .. - The state of the roads these days is pretty bad , and I'm feeling every damnable bump/pothole/ridge
Altho' it is only 20 mins or so to my work it is tiring and is grating on me. The car is on standard 17s so there isn't anything I can do about that.
- When I do use it I don't/cant use it's performance , really use it for going to work ( motorway and 30mph roads ) and the odd trip at the weekend. I don't do hooning any more either
.. I just don't see the appeal any more due to stricter speed-limit enforcing , other idiot drivers , the roads , and the cost of petrol ( Ok .. I'll hand my PH membership card on the way out! )So really I feel the car is wasted on me . If I lived out in the sticks where there's great roads to appreciate the handling then it'd be different.
The other factor in this is yearly costs. Now I knew what I'd be paying out in a year, but I'm wondering now is it REALLY worth paying the following out on a lovely performance car when I don't use the performance :
- Insurance renewal in 2 months time circa £700
- RFL due in 2 months .. £455
- Always having to use Momentum99 @ £1.46 a litre really @ 24mpg means £20-£30 every time I use it makes me not want to use it!
- Always in the back of my mind impending HGF or Ringland failure in the 2.5
So, I really dont know what to do . Stick with it or change. I don't have any money to put into the pot either .
My thoughts .. I don't want to leave the Subaru brand for 2 reasons .. 1 is that I like Subarus and I know them well , and 2 - if I go elsewhere the price I get offered for my car is comical .. usually CAP (or less from a Skoda dealer!).
So I did a rough comparison and worked out I could change to an Impreza RX n/a 2.0 Wagon or a Forester of same age circa 2007 ( Legacy 2.0 is too big really and lethargic for a car that size) for the same money.
Example of said RX :
or Forester:
The Pros:
- Running on 16s so more sidewall to absorb the bumps .. even more so on the Forester
- RX is a year younger and same miles / Forester about the same albeit more miles
- Forester has leather and comfier seats than Impreza, cruise etc
- Insurance much cheaper.. £270 a year!
- RFL £270 a year
- Dont have to use Momentum99
- Slightly better mpg .. anythings better than at best 24!
Cons:
- The RX and Forester don't have that "presence" or noise that the WRX does .. but then again , I just want a nice car to go from A to B
- I'd probably regret it after
- I'd miss that "shove" that I CAN use if I want to.
Lastly there is also another Forester for the same money but with the Auto gearbox . Of all the 11 or so Subarus I've had I haven't had 1 of these .. and am thinking maybe stay away .. I know it's a 4 speed , but would be handy to hear other peoples opinions on it.
So.. Has anyone else "down-graded"? Anyone else run a 2.0 RX/GX if a Bloboeye or a 2.0 Forester? A 2.0 XT would be a good shout but they're quite rare and holding their value too well.
Apologies for the ramble .. I'm just so torn and undecided what to
All opinions and advice appreciated.
Steve
Well, this is the reason I'd go for bug eye or blob eye Impreza if ever I went for a turbo model.
Anyhow, the normally aspirated models are reliable cars but are completely different beasts. I had one for eight years and it didn't cost me anything in repairs or even servicing except oil and filters.
I also went for a turbo Forester, originally I was looking at Imprezas but the insurance was too much for a tight arse like me. At a similar age to you I pay about 300 pounds. Go for an earlier model to get cheaper RFL and to avoid the chocolate 2.5 engine. I have a Hayward and Scott exhaust and it is very loud with a nice birthday burble. It has standard 16 wheels so a lovely comfortable side profile fits nicely. I run it on normal unleaded.
An low mileage perfect condition example is less than 4 grand now from a dealer.
Eta
It has a nice shove with 177 bhp, some cheap mods and a remap can seriously improve performance even more.
Anyhow, the normally aspirated models are reliable cars but are completely different beasts. I had one for eight years and it didn't cost me anything in repairs or even servicing except oil and filters.
I also went for a turbo Forester, originally I was looking at Imprezas but the insurance was too much for a tight arse like me. At a similar age to you I pay about 300 pounds. Go for an earlier model to get cheaper RFL and to avoid the chocolate 2.5 engine. I have a Hayward and Scott exhaust and it is very loud with a nice birthday burble. It has standard 16 wheels so a lovely comfortable side profile fits nicely. I run it on normal unleaded.
An low mileage perfect condition example is less than 4 grand now from a dealer.
Eta
It has a nice shove with 177 bhp, some cheap mods and a remap can seriously improve performance even more.
Edited by CaptainSlow on Thursday 11th April 13:49
Thanks everyone so far for ur replies.
Captain Slow .. This is the reason I'm asking about the 2.0 n/a and how usuable and enjoyable they are in a day to day environment as there's more of them about and less to go wrong .. I'd LOVE an XT . If there was a 2.0 XT available even with highish miles I'd take it but there's hardly any in Scotland .. all seem average 90-100k! The torque in these is good enough for me, and insurance is only about £20 more . It's a no to mods tho'. When mods get added to it it becomes expensive like my car justnow! .. even an exhaust adds average £70 onto these policies which is kind've defeating the purpose .
Same reason re the 2.5XT .. I love the performance of the 2.5 in my WRX , but again I don't need that performance, the £455 a year RFL or the 24mpg .. got to get the costs down.
Edited to add, I love this 1 available from a dealer in Belfast :
Really suits the 2 tone, tho think £4795 is a bit
Thanks again people.
Captain Slow .. This is the reason I'm asking about the 2.0 n/a and how usuable and enjoyable they are in a day to day environment as there's more of them about and less to go wrong .. I'd LOVE an XT . If there was a 2.0 XT available even with highish miles I'd take it but there's hardly any in Scotland .. all seem average 90-100k! The torque in these is good enough for me, and insurance is only about £20 more . It's a no to mods tho'. When mods get added to it it becomes expensive like my car justnow! .. even an exhaust adds average £70 onto these policies which is kind've defeating the purpose .
Same reason re the 2.5XT .. I love the performance of the 2.5 in my WRX , but again I don't need that performance, the £455 a year RFL or the 24mpg .. got to get the costs down.
Edited to add, I love this 1 available from a dealer in Belfast :
Really suits the 2 tone, tho think £4795 is a bit
Thanks again people.
Edited by Goldmember1 on Thursday 11th April 14:47
Edited by Goldmember1 on Thursday 11th April 14:48
Yeah I don't really see the point of an na when an XT has virtually the same running cost and it so much better.
Don't be put off of by 90k miles though. I bought mine for £5k at 87k miles in 2010, now on 114k. Like all cars its how they have been looked after that counts. I service mine myself, oil and filter less than £35 and under an hour of my time. As you know just check for a cambelt change...full kit £200 plus same again for labour. Also keep an eye on the rear suspension which is a problem area but only £400 to fix though.
Don't be put off of by 90k miles though. I bought mine for £5k at 87k miles in 2010, now on 114k. Like all cars its how they have been looked after that counts. I service mine myself, oil and filter less than £35 and under an hour of my time. As you know just check for a cambelt change...full kit £200 plus same again for labour. Also keep an eye on the rear suspension which is a problem area but only £400 to fix though.
I liked ours, because of the all-weather and light off-road capability, but it was quite thirsty for the performance on offer. The Saab 9-5 Aero estate we replaced it with is bigger, roomier, more comfortable, better equipped and a lot quicker but returns similar mpg day to day and better on a run. It's also good enough in the snow (with a set of winters), so the only real downside is the fact that I'm wary of taking it down some of the farm tracks that the Subaru used to deal with.
I can only help regarding Classics and going the other way - Sport>Turbo - but I have gone from 17" to 16" rims and find the ride much more enjoyable, the performance was obviously less but I always described my Sport as brisk. Cornering speeds once up to speed are the same so you can still have some fun once you find some open road.
Keep what you got for another year you will only regret it in the morning if you changeGoldmember1 said:
Edited to add, I love this 1 available from a dealer in Belfast :
Really suits the 2 tone, tho think £4795 is a bit
Thanks again people.
That's identical to mine even down to the facelift alloys. I paid under 3k for mine at 105k miles but it is brilliant. I've added about a grand on top of that with some suspension stuff, the new wheels and tyres and a new head unit. It goes like a train, does 28mpg average, is cheap to tax and now corners like my old STI. Get a good one and you've got a friend for as long as you want.Really suits the 2 tone, tho think £4795 is a bit
Thanks again people.
Edited by Goldmember1 on Thursday 11th April 14:47
Edited by Goldmember1 on Thursday 11th April 14:48
And I'll have your Wagon, BTW
Cheers Ved . Unfortunately I have to use mine as trade-in material to aquire such a vehicle. I'm currently in talks with my local dealer to see what he can offer and see if he has any XTs in the pipeline (he has those 2 cars I posted earlier but I think an XT is a good comprimise). At least it's good to know they can stand the tests of time
I was concerned that an '03 might be getting on a bit . If nothing comes up I'll get in touch with that dealer in Belfast.Unfortunately just had a look at the service book and noticed a service is now due , 60k/6yr
So thats £500 odd down the pan! Only had it 10 months and didn't think of checking!'We' (actually my wife) have a bugeye 2.0 n/a GL as everyday car.
It's fine - look good (in Mica Red), reliable (130,000 on the clock, serviced by the book - no problems worse than a blown numberplate bulb), right size for family with toddler.
It's not fast, but been so good for us my wife can't think of anything she particularly wants to replace it with (I have suggested many alternatives!).
It's fine - look good (in Mica Red), reliable (130,000 on the clock, serviced by the book - no problems worse than a blown numberplate bulb), right size for family with toddler.
It's not fast, but been so good for us my wife can't think of anything she particularly wants to replace it with (I have suggested many alternatives!).
I loved my hawkeye WRX and had it for 4 years as a daily driver but I know exactly where you are coming from. It's a great car but not particularly amazing at anything.
The amount of fuel you need to put in for the performance return doesn't seem to stack up. When I bought mine I purposely sought one that was in the lower tax bracket, £475 is very expensive especially if you aren't using it everyday.
To help make running costs cheaper you could LPG it. I did it to mine and it made my fuel costs drop off a cliff. As for the ride there's not really a lot you can do.
I think your idea of the forester is a pretty good shout. If you go for a NA impreza you will only ever compare it with the faster impreza's you've owned in the past whereas if you go for the Forester it's a completely different car and it will have a different driving style.
The amount of fuel you need to put in for the performance return doesn't seem to stack up. When I bought mine I purposely sought one that was in the lower tax bracket, £475 is very expensive especially if you aren't using it everyday.
To help make running costs cheaper you could LPG it. I did it to mine and it made my fuel costs drop off a cliff. As for the ride there's not really a lot you can do.
I think your idea of the forester is a pretty good shout. If you go for a NA impreza you will only ever compare it with the faster impreza's you've owned in the past whereas if you go for the Forester it's a completely different car and it will have a different driving style.
Thanks Ocotoposse, that's good to know ,thanks.
Bungleaio , you're right about "the amount of fuel you need to put in for the performance return doesn't seem to stack up" . LPGing isn't a possibility, the costs and how little I use the car makes it a no , plus doesn't help my situation justnow
Interestingly I test-drove the 2 cars above last weekend .
1st was the '07 2.0 n/a Forester manual with all the toys ... Didn't like the driving position, felt so blobby , detached from the road , and really slow ( tho' it just might've been that 1 I drove) .. the bottom line is it just left me cold.
Strange thing is my mum has the previous Forester and it feels so much better than the 1 I drove , and her's is a lot older, but feels so much more solid and better put together! Even her 126bhp feels quicker than this 156bhp example .. Ahm oot!
2nd was the 2.0 n/a Impreza . Yep nice car, drove well ( much more responsive than the Forester) , was quiet , no rattles etc and definately softer and less road noise than my car. Tbh it wasn't anything special , but I suppose I could live with it .. well apart from the smell of used car air-freshener
So .. that's it .. or so I thought . The dealer I spoke to doesn't really want to do a swap. Whether it's because my car is hard to sell , or 'cos the values are similar it's not gaining him much , I don't know.
Plus , in my heart I'm still unsure if it's what I want .. being honest , I don't think it is Maybe I should leave the Subaru brand for good. Maybe the right car will appear , be it a Volvo V50, a Skoda Octavia , or a Saab 9-3.
Suppose I'll just have to wait and see what crops up.
Thanks for reading.
Bungleaio , you're right about "the amount of fuel you need to put in for the performance return doesn't seem to stack up" . LPGing isn't a possibility, the costs and how little I use the car makes it a no , plus doesn't help my situation justnow
Interestingly I test-drove the 2 cars above last weekend .
1st was the '07 2.0 n/a Forester manual with all the toys ... Didn't like the driving position, felt so blobby , detached from the road , and really slow ( tho' it just might've been that 1 I drove) .. the bottom line is it just left me cold.
Strange thing is my mum has the previous Forester and it feels so much better than the 1 I drove , and her's is a lot older, but feels so much more solid and better put together! Even her 126bhp feels quicker than this 156bhp example .. Ahm oot!2nd was the 2.0 n/a Impreza . Yep nice car, drove well ( much more responsive than the Forester) , was quiet , no rattles etc and definately softer and less road noise than my car. Tbh it wasn't anything special , but I suppose I could live with it .. well apart from the smell of used car air-freshener
So .. that's it .. or so I thought . The dealer I spoke to doesn't really want to do a swap. Whether it's because my car is hard to sell , or 'cos the values are similar it's not gaining him much , I don't know.
Plus , in my heart I'm still unsure if it's what I want .. being honest , I don't think it is
Maybe I should leave the Subaru brand for good. Maybe the right car will appear , be it a Volvo V50, a Skoda Octavia , or a Saab 9-3. Suppose I'll just have to wait and see what crops up.
Thanks for reading.
HI,
supprised you didnt like the 07 Forester... we had a MY06 for 5+1/2years from new as the family car.. loved it, regret selling it. if it wasnt for the tiny MPG difference between that and my 02 WRX I would consider getting one for myself.
Engine needed reving to get most out of it, easy controlable understeer with LFB on the roundabouts, but coming from a WTX to a Forester it will feel big, wallowy n slow.
Changing cars will always loose you money.. if your reason for selling is lack of use, then I would keep it.. if its money, then do some sums and see if it *realy* adds up or not.
cash saved from MPG would be nothing/year,
Insurance, cant comment as it been years since I left the UK so no idea of costs.
VED. cant comment for same as above.
Maintenance. well if your WRX needs a bely, the dealer WILL take cash off for that, even tho they will sell it as is.
I did some sums for me as I was looking at ditching the WRX and getting something like a FAbia VRS for the better MPG, but the difference was only like 1200€ a year.. so that little could EASY be gone if you buy 'the wrong car' which needs fixing those little things the seller 'forgot' to tell you about.
supprised you didnt like the 07 Forester... we had a MY06 for 5+1/2years from new as the family car.. loved it, regret selling it. if it wasnt for the tiny MPG difference between that and my 02 WRX I would consider getting one for myself.
Engine needed reving to get most out of it, easy controlable understeer with LFB on the roundabouts, but coming from a WTX to a Forester it will feel big, wallowy n slow.
Changing cars will always loose you money.. if your reason for selling is lack of use, then I would keep it.. if its money, then do some sums and see if it *realy* adds up or not.
cash saved from MPG would be nothing/year,
Insurance, cant comment as it been years since I left the UK so no idea of costs.
VED. cant comment for same as above.
Maintenance. well if your WRX needs a bely, the dealer WILL take cash off for that, even tho they will sell it as is.
I did some sums for me as I was looking at ditching the WRX and getting something like a FAbia VRS for the better MPG, but the difference was only like 1200€ a year.. so that little could EASY be gone if you buy 'the wrong car' which needs fixing those little things the seller 'forgot' to tell you about.
Do you really need all wheel drive? I gave up trying to run an Impreza as a daily due to the fuel and eventually settled on a hot hatch, via a diesel version of the same car first.
Still has the performance and practicality, but much better on running costs. Also has the reliability due to not being a diesel!
Still has the performance and practicality, but much better on running costs. Also has the reliability due to not being a diesel!
Goldmember1 said:
Thanks Ocotoposse, that's good to know ,thanks.
1st was the '07 2.0 n/a Forester manual with all the toys ... Didn't like the driving position, felt so blobby , detached from the road , and really slow ( tho' it just might've been that 1 I drove) .. the bottom line is it just left me cold. Strange thing is my mum has the previous Forester and it feels so much better than the 1 I drove , and her's is a lot older, but feels so much more solid and better put together! Even her 126bhp feels quicker than this 156bhp example .. Ahm oot!
If you look at the stats for the old versus newer version, the 155bhp engine in the newer version only produces 2 lb/ft more torque, and is heavier, so it's only going to be a bit faster if you rev the nuts off it.1st was the '07 2.0 n/a Forester manual with all the toys ... Didn't like the driving position, felt so blobby , detached from the road , and really slow ( tho' it just might've been that 1 I drove) .. the bottom line is it just left me cold.
Strange thing is my mum has the previous Forester and it feels so much better than the 1 I drove , and her's is a lot older, but feels so much more solid and better put together! Even her 126bhp feels quicker than this 156bhp example .. Ahm oot!As for being detached from the road, that is the Foresters forte - superb ride quality that will soak up anything that the roads will throw at it.
Go for the Saab or Volvo - much firmer ride
Unless you specifically like being unusual, I can't imagine why you would want a 2ltr N/A Impreza! Dog slow, ugly and AWD that you don't really need (so more drivetrain loses).
As for bang for buck with the WRX. A car plus a map is hardly expensive, so I think it stack up well considering the 270bhp result. I drove a standard WRX once and I did myself think it underwhelming, however, a few choice modifications really changes that car!
As for bang for buck with the WRX. A car plus a map is hardly expensive, so I think it stack up well considering the 270bhp result. I drove a standard WRX once and I did myself think it underwhelming, however, a few choice modifications really changes that car!
The thing is Paul , as said in my original post , I dont use or even get the chance to use the performance any more , therefore I don't think it makes sense financially to keep a performance car that just gets used for mundane journeys like 15 mins town driving to work etc . Plus it's things like the insurance thats making it too dear to keep a WRX , especially if it's modified/remapped etc. I'm 40 now , and paying £700 a year for car insurance at my age is madness imo .. time to get the costs down.
I have stuck with the Subaru brand for all these years 'cos I think they all have that "something" , be it even a moddest 2.0 n/a . Yes I kno I dont need AWD but you get used to that handling and the feel of these cars. I am willing to leave the brand ( I have before be it Volvo V40s ) but have always come back. Looked at a Fabia VRS y'day .. just felt too small really , and the Octavia is dearer and bigger than I need.
I'll still keep looking .. maybe I'll find a dealer willing to take my car that isn't going to offer me less than CAP
Are these cars REALLY that hard to sell?!?
Thanks everyone so far for your input.
I have stuck with the Subaru brand for all these years 'cos I think they all have that "something" , be it even a moddest 2.0 n/a . Yes I kno I dont need AWD but you get used to that handling and the feel of these cars. I am willing to leave the brand ( I have before be it Volvo V40s ) but have always come back. Looked at a Fabia VRS y'day .. just felt too small really , and the Octavia is dearer and bigger than I need.
I'll still keep looking .. maybe I'll find a dealer willing to take my car that isn't going to offer me less than CAP
Are these cars REALLY that hard to sell?!?
Thanks everyone so far for your input.
Gassing Station | Subaru | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff