outback 3.0R - running costs
Discussion
oop north said:
Just to add to this - collecting my new (to me) Outback 3.0 in a week, in place of the diesel. Contemplating lpg conversion
Do share your thinking and numbers here. I still run my 3.0 RN as petrol only. I looked at the LPG conversion and at 10,000 miles per year it was going to be 2 to 3 years to pay back. On a 6 year old car, I was not happy making the investment. Maybe you run a higher mileage?
Not actually done the detailed maths yet, but I am currently doing about 14k miles a year, though that might increase to around 18k miles.
Working on petrol at 1.30 per litre (ignoring higher octane) and 27mpg, 14k miles costs £3,056 pa, pence per mile 21.85
LPG seems to be about 70p/l, working on 85% x 27mpg (allowing assumed 15% drop in mpg on LPG) gives pence per mile of 13.85
So about an 8p per mile LPG saving. Assuming I still do, say, about 2k miles on petrol, that would give a saving of £960 (12,000 x 8p), so payback about 2.5 years, assuming the quote for a high quality installation (£2,200 + VAT) - no way would I go for a cheap conversion
As the new car is an auto, we will probably use it in place of my wife's XC90 for some trips - she hates driving manual cars (not family hols though - not enough boot space left before a LPG conversion never mind after) so probably going to do more than 14k miles pa and my business may be changing (hopefully!) with some new streams of work that will mean more mileage, possibly 18k or more a year
I accept though that 2.5 years payback is not very exciting and possibly a risk on a 5-year old car, though a good quality installation should add to the value of the car if I decided to change for something else after a couple of years
Agree, though, that at 10k miles if keeping no more than 3 years = unwise investment unless you can be sure of getting some of the conversion cost back on sale. And even for me with higher mileage it is not all that clear cut - particularly as the map I have looked at with prices at http://www.filllpg.co.uk/?page=lpg.php shows 80p if you buy on the motorway, which would slow payback down, though as cheap as 60p with a slight detour on the way to/from office in Manchester
Working on petrol at 1.30 per litre (ignoring higher octane) and 27mpg, 14k miles costs £3,056 pa, pence per mile 21.85
LPG seems to be about 70p/l, working on 85% x 27mpg (allowing assumed 15% drop in mpg on LPG) gives pence per mile of 13.85
So about an 8p per mile LPG saving. Assuming I still do, say, about 2k miles on petrol, that would give a saving of £960 (12,000 x 8p), so payback about 2.5 years, assuming the quote for a high quality installation (£2,200 + VAT) - no way would I go for a cheap conversion
As the new car is an auto, we will probably use it in place of my wife's XC90 for some trips - she hates driving manual cars (not family hols though - not enough boot space left before a LPG conversion never mind after) so probably going to do more than 14k miles pa and my business may be changing (hopefully!) with some new streams of work that will mean more mileage, possibly 18k or more a year
I accept though that 2.5 years payback is not very exciting and possibly a risk on a 5-year old car, though a good quality installation should add to the value of the car if I decided to change for something else after a couple of years
Agree, though, that at 10k miles if keeping no more than 3 years = unwise investment unless you can be sure of getting some of the conversion cost back on sale. And even for me with higher mileage it is not all that clear cut - particularly as the map I have looked at with prices at http://www.filllpg.co.uk/?page=lpg.php shows 80p if you buy on the motorway, which would slow payback down, though as cheap as 60p with a slight detour on the way to/from office in Manchester
Was in the same dilemma earlier this year,
I ideally wanted a forester, and got offered a cracking deal on an 06 plate XN 2.0? with 90K on the clock
Drop links were noisy, so he had his garage put new ones on for me next day
However the vendor couldn't show that the cam belt had been done, and it was 12 months / 30k past the
recommended change.
I made him an offer less having the belts done at an indy, but he wouldn't play ball. I even offered to
meet him half way, which was only £200 off his asking price
Someone took it at full price and no cambelt history.... Brave
So looking around the market was slim. i spotted an outback and did some digging,
Turns out its got better load capabilitys than the forester, so i looked closer.
on paper it says 40mpg combined, so i went and had alook at one advertised locally
3.0R 53 plate 100k, service history, needed a few bits - cosmetics but 1K less than the forester
so i gave it a whirl...
You need to go in with open eyes on the mpg.. 19mpg round town is normal, 23- 26 average and best
i've had so far is 29mpg on a run.
Id say you could hit 35 on a long run (Birmingam from south coast) cruising at 60
average range is 300mpg to a tank worst 250 best 320
Mart
I ideally wanted a forester, and got offered a cracking deal on an 06 plate XN 2.0? with 90K on the clock
Drop links were noisy, so he had his garage put new ones on for me next day
However the vendor couldn't show that the cam belt had been done, and it was 12 months / 30k past the
recommended change.
I made him an offer less having the belts done at an indy, but he wouldn't play ball. I even offered to
meet him half way, which was only £200 off his asking price
Someone took it at full price and no cambelt history.... Brave
So looking around the market was slim. i spotted an outback and did some digging,
Turns out its got better load capabilitys than the forester, so i looked closer.
on paper it says 40mpg combined, so i went and had alook at one advertised locally
3.0R 53 plate 100k, service history, needed a few bits - cosmetics but 1K less than the forester
so i gave it a whirl...
You need to go in with open eyes on the mpg.. 19mpg round town is normal, 23- 26 average and best
i've had so far is 29mpg on a run.
Id say you could hit 35 on a long run (Birmingam from south coast) cruising at 60
average range is 300mpg to a tank worst 250 best 320
Mart
oop north said:
After 3500 miles I am averaging 26.4 mpg with mine. Not found any improvement from super unleaded (after 1200 miles of trying) so back to normal
An unscientific comparison of regular v super is now telling me that the mpg from super is better on long run. Around town and the lanes I could not see a difference but on the motorways it is maybe 1-2 mpg better.I haven't the patience to test carefully enough to identify definitively whether one is better than the other in different circumstances - there is a view that if you have to measure really carefully to measure a different there isn't a worthwhile difference
That said, I am finding wild variation in mpg depending on how I drive it - the last two tanks have been the most extreme, with yesterday's fill up showing 23.0 mpg (partly due to lots of school runs and other short trips - and a mad sport sharp dash to the garage yesterday morning when I forgot to take it) and the previous one was 30.7 mpg made up of an 81-mile round trip and a 230-mile round trip
Yesterday's trip to the garage was expensive - wheel bearing, front suspension bits, exhaust y-piece welding, general checkover £600, gulp. And next service in 4k miles will see new discs and pads. And new tyres needed soon. Though that should mean that everything is sorted for a good distance. I hope
Driving yesterday evening with the exhaust and wheel bearing sorted reminded me of why I got the car, though - lovely and smooth for £'000s less than anything else I would have considered
That said, I am finding wild variation in mpg depending on how I drive it - the last two tanks have been the most extreme, with yesterday's fill up showing 23.0 mpg (partly due to lots of school runs and other short trips - and a mad sport sharp dash to the garage yesterday morning when I forgot to take it) and the previous one was 30.7 mpg made up of an 81-mile round trip and a 230-mile round trip
Yesterday's trip to the garage was expensive - wheel bearing, front suspension bits, exhaust y-piece welding, general checkover £600, gulp. And next service in 4k miles will see new discs and pads. And new tyres needed soon. Though that should mean that everything is sorted for a good distance. I hope
Driving yesterday evening with the exhaust and wheel bearing sorted reminded me of why I got the car, though - lovely and smooth for £'000s less than anything else I would have considered
oop north said:
Not actually done the detailed maths yet, but I am currently doing about 14k miles a year, though that might increase to around 18k miles.
Working on petrol at 1.30 per litre (ignoring higher octane) and 27mpg, 14k miles costs £3,056 pa, pence per mile 21.85
LPG seems to be about 70p/l, working on 85% x 27mpg (allowing assumed 15% drop in mpg on LPG) gives pence per mile of 13.85
So about an 8p per mile LPG saving. Assuming I still do, say, about 2k miles on petrol, that would give a saving of £960 (12,000 x 8p), so payback about 2.5 years, assuming the quote for a high quality installation (£2,200 + VAT) - no way would I go for a cheap conversion
As the new car is an auto, we will probably use it in place of my wife's XC90 for some trips - she hates driving manual cars (not family hols though - not enough boot space left before a LPG conversion never mind after) so probably going to do more than 14k miles pa and my business may be changing (hopefully!) with some new streams of work that will mean more mileage, possibly 18k or more a year
I accept though that 2.5 years payback is not very exciting and possibly a risk on a 5-year old car, though a good quality installation should add to the value of the car if I decided to change for something else after a couple of years
Agree, though, that at 10k miles if keeping no more than 3 years = unwise investment unless you can be sure of getting some of the conversion cost back on sale. And even for me with higher mileage it is not all that clear cut - particularly as the map I have looked at with prices at http://www.filllpg.co.uk/?page=lpg.php shows 80p if you buy on the motorway, which would slow payback down, though as cheap as 60p with a slight detour on the way to/from office in Manchester
I think you're massively over-estimating the cost of the LPG conversion - 2.2+VAT = £2640. I had my Impreza converted last year. I shopped around and did a LOT of research and hanging around on the LPG forums. I had quoutes between £1500 and £850. In the end I went with a Romano system and electronic Flashlube that cost £1270 and that included the use of a courtesy car while the conversion was underway. Due to the extra hardware needed for the 6 cyl 3.0 I'd be expecting to pay ~£1600-1800. My 240bhp Impreza has returned 24.52mpg over the last 20,000 miles.Working on petrol at 1.30 per litre (ignoring higher octane) and 27mpg, 14k miles costs £3,056 pa, pence per mile 21.85
LPG seems to be about 70p/l, working on 85% x 27mpg (allowing assumed 15% drop in mpg on LPG) gives pence per mile of 13.85
So about an 8p per mile LPG saving. Assuming I still do, say, about 2k miles on petrol, that would give a saving of £960 (12,000 x 8p), so payback about 2.5 years, assuming the quote for a high quality installation (£2,200 + VAT) - no way would I go for a cheap conversion
As the new car is an auto, we will probably use it in place of my wife's XC90 for some trips - she hates driving manual cars (not family hols though - not enough boot space left before a LPG conversion never mind after) so probably going to do more than 14k miles pa and my business may be changing (hopefully!) with some new streams of work that will mean more mileage, possibly 18k or more a year
I accept though that 2.5 years payback is not very exciting and possibly a risk on a 5-year old car, though a good quality installation should add to the value of the car if I decided to change for something else after a couple of years
Agree, though, that at 10k miles if keeping no more than 3 years = unwise investment unless you can be sure of getting some of the conversion cost back on sale. And even for me with higher mileage it is not all that clear cut - particularly as the map I have looked at with prices at http://www.filllpg.co.uk/?page=lpg.php shows 80p if you buy on the motorway, which would slow payback down, though as cheap as 60p with a slight detour on the way to/from office in Manchester
The biggest killer with the 3.0 has to be the £500 pa VED; OUCH! It's what's putting me off and pointing me towards a 2.5 when I change in about 18 months.
Edited by Mr Taxpayer on Friday 3rd October 07:51
Mr Taxpayer said:
The biggest killer with the 3.0 has to be the £500 pa VED; OUCH! It's what's putting me off and pointing me towards a 2.5 when I change in about 18 months.
Well, that extra £200 you save each year can be saved up and cover the cost of the cambelt changes that the 3.0 doesn't require ;-)Ducalio said:
Mr Taxpayer said:
The biggest killer with the 3.0 has to be the £500 pa VED; OUCH! It's what's putting me off and pointing me towards a 2.5 when I change in about 18 months.
Well, that extra £200 you save each year can be saved up and cover the cost of the cambelt changes that the 3.0 doesn't require ;-) "We HAVE to have the Spec B dear, because it has doesn't have a cambelt that needs changing next week."Mr Taxpayer said:
Ducalio said:
Mr Taxpayer said:
The biggest killer with the 3.0 has to be the £500 pa VED; OUCH! It's what's putting me off and pointing me towards a 2.5 when I change in about 18 months.
Well, that extra £200 you save each year can be saved up and cover the cost of the cambelt changes that the 3.0 doesn't require ;-) "We HAVE to have the Spec B dear, because it has doesn't have a cambelt that needs changing next week."Unfortunately, though, I may have to look at getting something different - may be increasing mileage to around 27k pa (currently 14k or so) which is too much for 3.0 petrol, sadly...
oop north said:
Mr Taxpayer said:
Ducalio said:
Mr Taxpayer said:
The biggest killer with the 3.0 has to be the £500 pa VED; OUCH! It's what's putting me off and pointing me towards a 2.5 when I change in about 18 months.
Well, that extra £200 you save each year can be saved up and cover the cost of the cambelt changes that the 3.0 doesn't require ;-) "We HAVE to have the Spec B dear, because it has doesn't have a cambelt that needs changing next week."Unfortunately, though, I may have to look at getting something different - may be increasing mileage to around 27k pa (currently 14k or so) which is too much for 3.0 petrol, sadly...
Ducalio said:
Mr Taxpayer said:
The biggest killer with the 3.0 has to be the £500 pa VED; OUCH! It's what's putting me off and pointing me towards a 2.5 when I change in about 18 months.
Well, that extra £200 you save each year can be saved up and cover the cost of the cambelt changes that the 3.0 doesn't require ;-)Mr Taxpayer said:
LPG, Mr OopNorth. Pay for itself in under a year, and the modification won't depreciate; look at the price of LPG cars on Autotrader compared their unmodified brethren. http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/about-autogas/savings-ca...
Good point but a bit nervous about ending up with no boot - already lost a chunk to subwoofer / amp, I don't want to lose the spare wheel and having spare wheel and sub in boot means not much space for anything else74merc said:
When is the last time you had a puncture? I've got a 68 litre doughtnut tank in the spare wheel well and a can of gung. Never had to use it in 65K miles on LPG.
Yup; the space saver sits in the garage and two cans - safety engineer - of gunk in the boot. Many new cars now come without a spare; saves 15kg on the emissions a test and allows them to claim a bit less CO2/km. Tyre companies' data shows average motorist covers 60,000 miles between punctures. I've had several 'liveable with' slow punctures over the last few years, but I haven't had to change a wheel at the roadside since 1989. Of course that could change on the drive home tonight...Gassing Station | Subaru | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff