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mybrainhurts
71,767 posts
125 months
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Eric Mc said: People, this is the "science" forum. Whoah, what? wow... Where did that come from...?
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jmorgan
17,248 posts
154 months
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There is a bit of science really. Understanding why the genuine claims and why they think they saw etc. The eye brain combination is not as solid for evidence gathering as people think and some do take umbrage when this is pointed out.
I also think that so many camera's and so little evidence points to no aliens. For various reason.
And mentions of Billy Meier, jeepers, seriously?
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Bedazzled
4,306 posts
91 months
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jmorgan said: ...I also think that so many camera's and so little evidence points to no aliens. Life just needs the right set of circumstances to get started; there are thought to be 200-400 billion planets in our galaxy (average 1 per star), and there are hundreds of billions of galaxies out there. What is unique about the Earth? Even if the probability is low, life must be commonplace in such a vast universe. If (when) we discover another planet with life we will go there and investigate; if aliens discovered our world and were curious, they would probably do the same. I don't think the technology to visit another star system is that far beyond us, and we only achieved powered flight for the first time just over 100 years ago. Aside from the UFO pranks and profiteers, it's interesting to consider the implications of life elsewhere, but maybe that's for another thread.
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carmonk
7,910 posts
57 months
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Bedazzled said: jmorgan said: ...I also think that so many camera's and so little evidence points to no aliens. Life just needs the right set of circumstances to get started; there are thought to be 200-400 billion planets in our galaxy (average 1 per star), and there are hundreds of billions of galaxies out there. What is unique about the Earth? Even if the probability is low, life must be commonplace in such a vast universe. If (when) we discover another planet with life we will go there and investigate; if aliens discovered our world and were curious, they would probably do the same. I don't think the technology to visit another star system is that far beyond us, and we only achieved powered flight for the first time just over 100 years ago. Aside from the UFO pranks and profiteers, it's interesting to consider the implications of life elsewhere, but maybe that's for another thread. But don't confuse aliens (which IMO are almost certain to exist - no scratch that - certain) with the UFO phenomenon. When you get into it you'll see there's barely any connection at all.
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jmorgan
17,248 posts
154 months
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Indeed, it is not life out there question, it is questioning the lack of solid evidence saying the lights in the sky are aliens. I think camera's provide a lot of evidence with every shutter release. Billy Meier is a prime example of fakery.
To put it another way the eye can be fooled in a moment and so can a camera to some extent, but to get a convincing shot it has to be good and if it is good it will show up the fakers. Granted there are a few oddies but the money shot is not there.
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Bedazzled
4,306 posts
91 months
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I don't think camera evidence would cut it, the whole world watched the moon landings live but now 1 in 4 people don't believe it happened, and these days anyone can create fake videos with simple CGI. The aliens would have to appear on the One Show, or park their flying saucer outside number 10 and meet the Queen for tea and scones! 
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jmorgan
17,248 posts
154 months
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I think if there was a genuine close up it would. And that is why I think shots that exist fail. Especially digital, there are many clues in the exif data, focus in the image, distance to out of focus, using the exif you can work out sizes of stuff in the image to some extent working on the focal length. So to fake it will take lot. They tried to fake an image for the Belgian wave, its authenticity was questioned for certain aspects and now admitted a fake. A recent attempt in Jerusalem was shown as shonky. Then onto to CGI. Even then there are clues.
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Halb
18,104 posts
53 months
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Methuselah said: Now that every human being on earth has a camera phone, where are all those UFO pictures? Remember you used to see those crappy always slightly out of focus pictures. Some guy just happened to have a Polaroid when the UFOs appeared? "Either it was all bulls  t or my theory is that the martians have decided, "Don't go down there man. All those f  kers have cameras now. The quality of them are very low. It's bad enough getting a pic of 20 feet away, let alone stuff in the sky. 
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Hooli
21,480 posts
70 months
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onyx39 said: Matt172 said: ewenm said: Can we have a tin-foil-hat smiley please?    
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rhinochopig
16,135 posts
68 months
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I saw a UFO last week near York. Clear blue sky and hung there was a silver coloured saucer shaped disc clear as day. As I got closer it materialised into a white light aircraft.
It was interesting to see how much atmospherics and winter sun can obscure the true shape of an object.
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uktrailmonster
4,406 posts
70 months
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Bedazzled said: If (when) we discover another planet with life we will go there and investigate; if aliens discovered our world and were curious, they would probably do the same. I don't think the technology to visit another star system is that far beyond us, and we only achieved powered flight for the first time just over 100 years ago.
As impressive as our progress in travel has been in the last 100 years, interstellar flight is a vast and probably insurmountable challenge. The distances involved and the time it would take are simply too large. Sadly we are pretty much limited to our own solar system in terms of physically going anywhere. The same is likely to be true for aliens, hence why UFOs are extremely unlikely to be from other Worlds
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tuscaneer
3,371 posts
95 months
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Bergheim said: loads of loopy crackedt  t ramblings and drawings and everything! drugs.
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Bedazzled
4,306 posts
91 months
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uktrailmonster said: As impressive as our progress in travel has been in the last 100 years, interstellar flight is a vast and probably insurmountable challenge. The distances involved and the time it would take are simply too large. Sadly we are pretty much limited to our own solar system in terms of physically going anywhere. The same is likely to be true for aliens, hence why UFOs are extremely unlikely to be from other Worlds We are at a stage now when we need a fundamental technology breakthrough, and it's difficult to see beyond that, but I think technology and science will overcome the distances involved. People who were setting out to explore the New World in wooden boats a few hundred years ago would look at what we can do now and consider it magic; we would probably think the same thing if we could see what is possible in a few thousand years (assuming we don't destroy ourselves). On Earth multi-cellular life took 3 billion years to evolve; humans have only been around for a few million years, and we only started using rudimentary tools in the last few thousand years and electronic technology in the last 100 years, a mere blink of the eye on a cosmological clock (amazing when you think about it); why would you consider the science and technology we have now as being the pinnacle of everything that's possible?
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Halb
18,104 posts
53 months
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Bedazzled said: We are at a stage now when we need a fundamental technology breakthrough, and it's difficult to see beyond that, but I think technology and science will overcome the distances involved. People who were setting out to explore the New World in wooden boats a few hundred years ago would look at what we can do now and consider it magic; we would probably think the same thing if we could see what is possible in a few thousand years (assuming we don't destroy ourselves). Been a year or two since I read it now, but Nick Cook's Hunt for Zero Energy steps into the world of NASA and their different plans for vast journey's into space, some pretty esoteric stuff being talked about...probably even more so behind closed doors.
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TheHeretic
69,407 posts
125 months
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It's more than just 'we can go fast". Where would we go? Who would go? Would it be a generation ship? If so, that would be a vast undertaking. Would it's aim be exploration, or colonization? If we got where we were going, how long would it take to colonize? Where would supplies come from? Lots, and lots of issues even if we got ship speed to a decent enough rate of knots.
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tuscaneer
3,371 posts
95 months
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Bedazzled said: We are at a stage now when we need a fundamental technology breakthrough, and it's difficult to see beyond that, but I think technology and science will overcome the distances involved. People who were setting out to explore the New World in wooden boats a few hundred years ago would look at what we can do now and consider it magic; we would probably think the same thing if we could see what is possible in a few thousand years (assuming we don't destroy ourselves).
On Earth multi-cellular life took 3 billion years to evolve; humans have only been around for a few million years, and we only started using rudimentary tools in the last few thousand years and electronic technology in the last 100 years, a mere blink of the eye on a cosmological clock (amazing when you think about it); why would you consider the science and technology we have now as being the pinnacle of everything that's possible? Technology will never overcome the fundamental laws of physics.the analogy with crossing the atlantic a few hundred years ago doesnt hold water.the leap from wooden ships to faster metal ones isnt the same as bending time and space to our will
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uktrailmonster
4,406 posts
70 months
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tuscaneer said: Bedazzled said: We are at a stage now when we need a fundamental technology breakthrough, and it's difficult to see beyond that, but I think technology and science will overcome the distances involved. People who were setting out to explore the New World in wooden boats a few hundred years ago would look at what we can do now and consider it magic; we would probably think the same thing if we could see what is possible in a few thousand years (assuming we don't destroy ourselves).
On Earth multi-cellular life took 3 billion years to evolve; humans have only been around for a few million years, and we only started using rudimentary tools in the last few thousand years and electronic technology in the last 100 years, a mere blink of the eye on a cosmological clock (amazing when you think about it); why would you consider the science and technology we have now as being the pinnacle of everything that's possible? Technology will never overcome the fundamental laws of physics.the analogy with crossing the atlantic a few hundred years ago doesnt hold water.the leap from wooden ships to faster metal ones isnt the same as bending time and space to our will Exactly. The distances involved in travelling to even the nearest stars are measured in light years and there's no getting away from this fact. Flying to the Moon, Mars or anywhere else in our solar system is simply irrelevant to the task involved in flying to another star. I think we are already stalling in our physical manned exploration of space even on our own doorstep. The Cosmos is simply too vast for us to physically get out there. To back this up, there is certainly no evidence of any other alien civilisations colonising our galaxy, despite the fact that any one of them could have been around for far longer than us humans. I think there is almost certainly life out there, but it's unlikely that life ever comes into contact with other life on planets outside of its own solar system. The vast distances see to that.
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Hilts
2,512 posts
152 months
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uktrailmonster said: I think there is almost certainly life out there, but it's unlikely that life ever comes into contact with other life on planets outside of its own solar system. The vast distances see to that. This is based on our current development of technology and understanding. What about civilisations thousands, maybe millions of years ahead of us ? I think it's extremely naive to say that right now because we can't travel to the stars neither can anyone else nor will be able to do so in the future.
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Bedazzled
4,306 posts
91 months
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TheHeretic said: It's more than just 'we can go fast". Where would we go? Who would go? Would it be a generation ship? If so, that would be a vast undertaking. Would it's aim be exploration, or colonization? If we got where we were going, how long would it take to colonize? Where would supplies come from? Lots, and lots of issues even if we got ship speed to a decent enough rate of knots. I think the aims would be the same as always; all of those things. I agree though it's a huge undertaking requiring a completely different approach but I think that will happen eventually. What is needed is a catalyst, the most likely one being a NEO or the discovery of an Earth-twin by Kepler. tuscaneer said: Technology will never overcome the fundamental laws of physics.the analogy with crossing the atlantic a few hundred years ago doesnt hold water.the leap from wooden ships to faster metal ones isnt the same as bending time and space to our will There are plenty of possibilities, there could be habitable planets orbiting nearby stars less than 10 ly away and we just can't detect them yet because of the glare from their stars. It wouldn't take too much of a technology leap to get to them, within the bounds of relativity. Anyhow we don't fully understand the laws of physics yet, our current theories can't account for 75% of the mass in the universe without fudging the maths with dark energy; so I think all bets are still on, really. Ever the optimist.
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Halb
18,104 posts
53 months
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Bedazzled said: Anyhow we don't fully understand the laws of physics yet, our current theories can't account for 75% of the mass in the universe without fudging the maths with dark energy; so I think all bets are still on, really. Ever the optimist. I doubt we ever will, but we'll no doubt get better at trying to fill the gaps.
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