Explain Water divining

[f1rob]

Eric Mc said:

I just thought that the two skills seemed to go together.

Ah there was scientific thought thought behind it ? an I thought it was just a cheap dig

[ZeeTacoe]

f1rob said:

carmonk said:

What you just wrote suggests that you do think it's supernatural. Instead of 'I move the rods' you say 'the rods move'. Rods don't move unless you move them and if you're claiming they do, in the absence of any wind or magnetic fields, then you're claiming the supernatural, or at least something unknown to science.

THATS MY POINT ! the fact that it might be unknown to science dosent make it supernatural
It might be the body,s own magnetic field-I dont know the only thing I do know is I dont try to move the rods but when they are over water (6" watermain or 25mmpipe in my case) they move.when it happens you can angle your wrists forward an the rods will still come back

If this was used in olden days to find the best place to dig a well I havent got a clue how its done as I said before the water table here is 30 ft down and I cant detect it,well not that I know off.

People keep saying go an get the million dollar prize but what I have done isnt anything special and have shown people how to do it and they have "felt" the rods move soon as they do it so I doubt the prize is going to be so easy to get that anyone straight of the street could just walk in and get it ???

Au contraire you've been able to find water and defeat gravity with some bits of copper rod. You've done something truly special.

[carmonk]

f1rob said:

carmonk said:

What you just wrote suggests that you do think it's supernatural. Instead of 'I move the rods' you say 'the rods move'. Rods don't move unless you move them and if you're claiming they do, in the absence of any wind or magnetic fields, then you're claiming the supernatural, or at least something unknown to science.

THATS MY POINT ! the fact that it might be unknown to science dosent make it supernatural

No, but it makes it extraordinary and potentially supernatural. Forces that can be exerted on an object are very well defined in science (and that's putting it mildly) and nothing remotely like what you're describing exists.

f1rob said:

It might be the body,s own magnetic field-I dont know the only thing I do know is I dont try to move the rods but when they are over water (6" watermain or 25mmpipe in my case) they move.when it happens you can angle your wrists forward an the rods will still come back

If this was used in olden days to find the best place to dig a well I havent got a clue how its done as I said before the water table here is 30 ft down and I cant detect it,well not that I know off.

People keep saying go an get the million dollar prize but what I have done isnt anything special and have shown people how to do it and they have "felt" the rods move soon as they do it so I doubt the prize is going to be so easy to get that anyone straight of the street could just walk in and get it ???

No, it isn't easy because people cannot do it. The protocol is very easy and if you can do it you win the $1m, it's as simple as that. If there was a $1m prize for driving a car 100m down the street I'd be first in line because I know I could do it. But apparently you know you can dowse yet you don't want to consider winning $1m for doing something that you find easy. I don't understand that.

[The Excession]

f1rob said:

If it is the subconcious how does the subconcious know where a watermane is in a totally flat ploughed field ?

Every heard of pronoia.... 'the suspicion that the Universe is a conspiracy on your behalf'?



Can we have that as another 'woo woo' subject in this forum please? hperleesejumpforjoy:

[f1rob]

Gaspode said:

If you have poor communication skills it is within your grasp to improve them, should you wish to do so. It's inevitable that the better one's skills, the more credibility one is going to have, it's the same with anything in life. To illustrate the point, how would you feel if you went to the doctor and he said "I'm totally crap at being a surgeon but that doesn't make my willingness to have a go any less valid?"

As to your second point, if you genuinely believe that you can locate buried water pipes in ploughed fields with a success rate significantly better than chance, then there's an easy million bucks within your grasp. Go for it!

It is well within my grasp,just im not interested
Everything I have posted on here could of been posted word perfect and the doubters would still doubt

Its the doctors job to be a surgeon so he should be fairly good at it, my job isnt as a writer its as a composite laminator but should that stop me from posting about somthing I know about ?

[The Excession]

carmonk said:

$1m for doing something that you find easy. I don't understand that.

I'm going off to practice.....

[f1rob]

Quick question for all the doubters-have you ever tried it ??? can you say for sure that what I have said happens dosent ?
Im not a water diviner as such,been shown how its done,tried it,shown a few people an maybe done it 15 times in my life-thats it.As with any thresd you can respond with your views or your experiance-what I have posted has been my experiance

[Eric Mc]

f1rob said:

Eric Mc said:

I just thought that the two skills seemed to go together.

Ah there was scientific thought thought behind it ? an I thought it was just a cheap dig

Of course.

It's linked to what I call Skill Balance Theory.

If a person is exceptionally skilled in one area - then as compensation they must be exceptionally unskilled in some other area.

[f1rob]

Eric Mc said:

Of course.

It's linked to what I call Skill Balance Theory.

If a person is exceptionally skilled in one area - then as compensation they must be exceptionally unskilled in some other area.

Well im brilliant at composites and car builds an crap at English so have just helped you with your theory
But where in the theory does it state that it also affects the persons views on other things ?

[Eric Mc]

Did I say it did? You may have other skills in other areas too. It seems the "jumping to conclusions" portion of your brain is highly developed.

[Gaspode]

The Excession said:

There's a few articles on the web regarding Moss Lane. A lovely chap very quiet and unassuming and evidently very good at what he does. People bring top race horses and grey hounds for treatment from all over the country.

But as we know it's just all 'woo woo'

It's sad to me that these skills are being lost now - my GF thinks he's a bit of a charlatan as he has no formal qualifications, then again she has spent a fortune (in time and money) on accupunture, anatomy and physical therapy classes and she is making a fine and successful living out of that.

You know what they call Alternative Medicine that works? Medicine.

I don't doubt for one minute that Moss Lane cured your elbow problem. I have had a similar encounter with a chap who sorted out my wife's back with a few well-placed gentle manipulations.

It would be sad indeed if these physiotherapy skills were lost for the want of someone willing to learn them - fortunatley this isn't likely. It would be sadder still if they ended up being discredited because someone wanted to put ludicrous woo-based interpretations onto what is a well-understood technique - unfortunately this is quite likely.

What's happening here is that these people have learned their physiotherapy skills in an informal way, outside mainstream teaching. This doesn't invalidate in any way what they have learned, but it does make it a bit trickier sometimes to see exactly what the therapeutic behaviours are. I suspect he uses a coat hanger because the bloke who taught him used a coat hanger. They've never bothered to check what the exact effect of using a coat hanger is, why should they? My suspicion is that its use is purely incidental, but that could bear investigation.

[TheHeretic]

Eric is right. If you are skilled in one area, or 2, you are crap in others. Take Brian May for one. Excellent guitar player, and very clever astrophysicist, and yet is skill with scissors and a comb are very much lacking.

[Eric Mc]

I'm rubbish at DIY.

[carmonk]

f1rob said:

Quick question for all the doubters-have you ever tried it ??? can you say for sure that what I have said happens dosent ?

Pretty much. I can dismiss a bloke who says he's been taken on a trip to Venus in an alien space craft too because whilst there is some incredibly slim possibility that he's telling the truth, I would be insane to believe him without hard evidence.

f1rob said:

Im not a water diviner as such,been shown how its done,tried it,shown a few people an maybe done it 15 times in my life-thats it.As with any thresd you can respond with your views or your experiance-what I have posted has been my experiance

You either believe you can do it or you don't. If you do then go for that prize. If you don't then you're not in disagreement with anybody here.

And for the record I have tried it. In the interest of research and fairness I also tried Lethbridge's pendulum experiments. Neither set of experiments gave the slightest indication of success.

[jmorgan]

f1rob said:

Quick question for all the doubters-have you ever tried it ??? can you say for sure that what I have said happens dosent ?
Im not a water diviner as such,been shown how its done,tried it,shown a few people an maybe done it 15 times in my life-thats it.As with any thresd you can respond with your views or your experiance-what I have posted has been my experiance

Yep. Success then no success. I put it down to chance. I would like to know how a body of water or a trench back filled etc etc can have an effect on the rods through a body yet cannot be measures in any quantifiable way. Until that is proven, for me it is chance or that effect I cannot spill, idiometer or whatever.

The bit holding the rods I should add, as per your description earlier, is so riddled with a few issues you should at least be aware of the influence you can have on it.

[hairykrishna]

The Excession said:

After nine attempts of 'reading' the binary result of an off/on in the circuit, where I had no clues as to what the actual state of the circuit was, I called out to my friend who was about 5 metres away and through a closed door 'How am I doing?'. He told me "You've done nine, do one more...", I did the final one and that was the one I got wrong.

That's significant in my view of the world. (Maybe someone will/could post up the probabillity of a binary coin toss where you get the first nine correct - and again the odds of getting the first nine correct and the last one right?)

It's a ~1% chance that a random 10 coin flips give you 9 heads. 9 followed by a tail would be much larger as it's more specific. This can be misleading though. If I tossed a coin 10 times and got 9 heads would you conclude that I could influence the fall of a coin with powers unknown to science? Or that it was a fluke?

10 trials is bugger all. Do it 60+ times out of a hundred in properly controlled conditions and it might be worth more of a look.

Edited by hairykrishna on Tuesday 21st February 16:11

[The Excession]

Right then - this has gone far enough!

I propose a test please.

We will need a few people to help out here.

I propose a test where a few 'trust worthy' people will write a number on a card/paper. The number shall be between 0 and 9.

This number shall be hidden from me, but submitted to the warden of the test.
I will get out my faithful pendulum (actually I won't because it's been lost and I can't dowse its location, but I will make a new one) and I will dowse for the correct number on each card.

So Randi eat your heart out.... here we go...

• Ten readers of this thread to subscribe to this test.
• Each of these people write a number on a card/paper and take a photo of it on an agreed date with a copy of any daily paper underneath.
• This photo will be shared with only Eric
• All I want to see a photo of each of the ten people's numbers sealed in an evelope on top of the same news paper that was sent as a pic to Eric
• Of course I'd like all of you to agree not to send me any corresspondance on what numbers you chose.
• You must choose your number and take the two photos on the same day.
• You post the picture of the closed envelope with the newspaper here, you send/email a photo of the exposed number to Eric as I trust him to be truthful (he is good with numbers afterall).
• I then of course will dowse and identify everyone's number correctly.

What do we think chaps?

(I can confirm that in the past I have had little or no email exchange with Eric, I'm not able to hack his email, but I do kind of trust the fact that if I got 9/10 correct her might post that result here!)


So, ten people willing to do the test, then we pick a date, you all take a photo of your number on top of a paper, email that to Eric. Then you all take a picture of your number inside an envelope on the same paper and send that to me.

I'll dowse your numbers and go on to claim my $million!

This is going to be so much fun!

[Gaspode]

The Excession said:

Right then - this has gone far enough!

I propose a test please.

We will need a few people to help out here.

I propose a test where a few 'trust worthy' people will write a number on a card/paper. The number shall be between 0 and 9.

This number shall be hidden from me, but submitted to the warden of the test.
I will get out my faithful pendulum (actually I won't because it's been lost and I can't dowse its location, but I will make a new one) and I will dowse for the correct number on each card.

So Randi eat your heart out.... here we go...

• Ten readers of this thread to subscribe to this test.
• Each of these people write a number on a card/paper and take a photo of it on an agreed date with a copy of any daily paper underneath.
• This photo will be shared with only Eric
• All I want to see a photo of each of the ten people's numbers sealed in an evelope on top of the same news paper that was sent as a pic to Eric
• Of course I'd like all of you to agree not to send me any corresspondance on what numbers you chose.
• You must choose your number and take the two photos on the same day.
• You post the picture of the closed envelope with the newspaper here, you send/email a photo of the exposed number to Eric as I trust him to be truthful (he is good with numbers afterall).
• I then of course will dowse and identify everyone's number correctly.

What do we think chaps?

(I can confirm that in the past I have had little or no email exchange with Eric, I'm not able to hack his email, but I do kind of trust the fact that if I got 9/10 correct her might post that result here!)


So, ten people willing to do the test, then we pick a date, you all take a photo of your number on top of a paper, email that to Eric. Then you all take a picture of your number inside an envelope on the same paper and send that to me.

I'll dowse your numbers and go on to claim my $million!

This is going to be so much fun!

Sounds like a laugh. I'm in.

[ewenm]

No mention of it having to be an integer between 0 and 9 so it's a pretty tough challenge...

[Eric Mc]

I'm too thick.