Explain Water divining
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
dickymint said:
Eric Mc said:
Due to the drought, no doubt.
Own up Eric - you got lost driving to Dons.
don4l said:
I can only think of one way for third party verification, and that is for EricMc to drive to Camberley(5 miles) where he can look at it.
I know someone who was cured by use of crystals. She's an intelligent woman but believes that crystals have these power. Ask her about salt and she tells you not to be stupid.
Homeopathy can be shown to work. There's no argument. But scientists have shown that homeopathy works even with tap water. It works even if no additional fluid is added. So whilst homeopathy can be shown to work, it has nothing to do with homeopathy. It is the hype seems to be the best option.
Twigs twist in hands. Doesn't prove divining works.
That someone has identified some water pipes. Doesn't prove divining works.
Let's keep an open mind. There must be a reason for it to work. It is not so much whether it works or not but how. To suggest that water has strange powers is not really sensible. There must be blind tests. If it doesn't pass these tests then what we can deduce is that it doesn't work.
When people are involved there are all sorts of cheats available.
I've seen a magician who did tricks that I can't explain. However, it doesn't mean that cards have a special power. It means it was a clever trick.
Homeopathy can be shown to work. There's no argument. But scientists have shown that homeopathy works even with tap water. It works even if no additional fluid is added. So whilst homeopathy can be shown to work, it has nothing to do with homeopathy. It is the hype seems to be the best option.
Twigs twist in hands. Doesn't prove divining works.
That someone has identified some water pipes. Doesn't prove divining works.
Let's keep an open mind. There must be a reason for it to work. It is not so much whether it works or not but how. To suggest that water has strange powers is not really sensible. There must be blind tests. If it doesn't pass these tests then what we can deduce is that it doesn't work.
When people are involved there are all sorts of cheats available.
I've seen a magician who did tricks that I can't explain. However, it doesn't mean that cards have a special power. It means it was a clever trick.
Derek Smith said:
Let's keep an open mind. There must be a reason for it to work.
No, there doesn't. Because it doesn't work (whether 'it' is homeopathy, or water divining, or crystal healing, or whatever).Until 'it' is proved in reproducible and scientifically valid experiments that the results are better than placebo, then it will stay firmly in the "it doesn't work" box and therefore there is no point in looking for the reasons that it works. Because it doesn't. Work, that is.
deckster said:
Derek Smith said:
Let's keep an open mind. There must be a reason for it to work.
No, there doesn't. Because it doesn't work (whether 'it' is homeopathy, or water divining, or crystal healing, or whatever).Until 'it' is proved in reproducible and scientifically valid experiments that the results are better than placebo, then it will stay firmly in the "it doesn't work" box and therefore there is no point in looking for the reasons that it works. Because it doesn't. Work, that is.
So the question is: why do these people think they've seen divining?
It cannot be, I'd suggest, the placebo effect.
But we should keep an open mind.
Question everything, even scientists.
I have to say I am a total skeptic when it comes to stuff like this.
I pride myself on having a logical scientific mind not easily fooled.
Anyway to cut a long story short had a 150m long 2m deep foul water drain run under a field with a break. I get the local drain chaps in they have a go with machine etc and know roughly the direction it goes.
I go into make them a cup of tea and am astounded when i come back out to see them wandering around the field with divining sticks. I'm thinking wtf I paying £150 an hour to watch this mumbo jumbo.
They quickly settle on the trouble spot with their sticks. 5 minutes later with me watching incredulously the jcb has dug down and they are right on top of the pipe fault, it had slipped a collar, dropped down and was leaking like a sieve..
What can i say, they dug one hole only in exactly the right spot after divining. They just said it felt like the place.
I could have made an educated guess myself with knowing the direction etc but it was quite surreal.
Anyway I'm still skeptical but was happy with the result...
Def some real testing required
I pride myself on having a logical scientific mind not easily fooled.
Anyway to cut a long story short had a 150m long 2m deep foul water drain run under a field with a break. I get the local drain chaps in they have a go with machine etc and know roughly the direction it goes.
I go into make them a cup of tea and am astounded when i come back out to see them wandering around the field with divining sticks. I'm thinking wtf I paying £150 an hour to watch this mumbo jumbo.
They quickly settle on the trouble spot with their sticks. 5 minutes later with me watching incredulously the jcb has dug down and they are right on top of the pipe fault, it had slipped a collar, dropped down and was leaking like a sieve..
What can i say, they dug one hole only in exactly the right spot after divining. They just said it felt like the place.
I could have made an educated guess myself with knowing the direction etc but it was quite surreal.
Anyway I'm still skeptical but was happy with the result...
Def some real testing required
boxst said:
Holy crap. I am in the wrong job.peterperkins said:
Def some real testing required
It's been really tested. James Randi's challenge with the water running in pipes was a pretty good test. The diviners did no better than chance.In real world situations where it 'works' it's people who work looking for water who do the same thing day in, day out. They generally have a good idea where to dig. If they had the confidence to just pick a spot without the magic sticks then I'm sure they could still do it.
peterperkins said:
They quickly settle on the trouble spot with their sticks. 5 minutes later with me watching incredulously the jcb has dug down and they are right on top of the pipe fault, it had slipped a collar, dropped down and was leaking like a sieve..
What can i say, they dug one hole only in exactly the right spot after divining. They just said it felt like the place.
Yes, that's quite right. It's obviously totally impossible that there is anything identifiable on the surface that might indicate that a pipe is leaking like a sieve right under your feet, so the only possible explanation is that it must be magic. Clearly.What can i say, they dug one hole only in exactly the right spot after divining. They just said it felt like the place.
i tried it once, couple of bent pieces of coat hanger, found me pipe. does it work ? is there a god ? i havent seen him / her, but theres a few people around that do believe. have they all seen their god ? believe what you like. im open minded. i dont believe everything im told, probably the opposite.
deckster said:
peterperkins said:
They quickly settle on the trouble spot with their sticks. 5 minutes later with me watching incredulously the jcb has dug down and they are right on top of the pipe fault, it had slipped a collar, dropped down and was leaking like a sieve..
What can i say, they dug one hole only in exactly the right spot after divining. They just said it felt like the place.
Yes, that's quite right. It's obviously totally impossible that there is anything identifiable on the surface that might indicate that a pipe is leaking like a sieve right under your feet, so the only possible explanation is that it must be magic. Clearly.What can i say, they dug one hole only in exactly the right spot after divining. They just said it felt like the place.
1) Demonstrate in properly conducted blind trials that dowsing works.
2) Explain how.
Until 1) I'll not worry about 2).
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