Unified theory found

[Gene Vincent]

To make this plain, we'll use a Minkowski cosmos with 3 space and 1 time dimension and coordintes x, y, z, t.
If I pick two points in either space, then ds denotes the distance between them. dx, dy, dz and dt.

A distance in Minkowski space is calculated by:
ds^2 = -dt^2 + dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2

(You will note the negative sign against the small t: -dt)

Time in Special Relativity can only deplete so it alone has this minus value, we can't move back and forth in time, but we can do so in the other planes, up/down, left/right and forward/back.

So as you move about within the 3 planes you subtract from the only other plane and that is time, and the faster you go, the more of the time plane is depleted, time appears to slow, but only to the sedentary [relative to your start point] start point, your clock still keeps perfect time.

We exist in Minkowski spacetime [I hate the term spacetime but it is necessary here] and in this cosmos the shortest distance to any object in space is not a straight line, but a very wavy one when viewed in 4 dimensions, but straight in the x,y, and z dimensions alone, and it all comes down to that minus sign.

[mattikake]

Well that's my mind blown. I've been interested in physics/science since ever, and I've never really seen existence explained in this way before.

I have no problem with comprehending the non-existence of time and that it is just a meter of measurement. It's a human concept to explain memory and experience, records of different states of the universe. Consciousness is the closest thing the universe has to a true random factor.

I've always looked at it as movement creates time, or rather, movement creates effect, which implies cause, which is measured in time.

[Gene Vincent]

mattikake said:

Well that's my mind blown. I've been interested in physics/science since ever, and I've never really seen existence explained in this way before.

I have no problem with comprehending the non-existence of time and that it is just a meter of measurement. It's a human concept to explain memory and experience, records of different states of the universe. Consciousness is the closest thing the universe has to a true random factor.

I've always looked at it as movement creates time, or rather, movement creates effect, which implies cause, which is measured in time.

The signs of an open mind.

This bodes well, most people when faced with a first hurdle as hard as this fall and never get up again as it appears to make no sense, you haven't fallen and we all stumble, trust me, we all stumble.

We encounter a 3D world, from birth to death it is our domain, we don't think in 4D except when we read history or plan ahead, but even then we separate time from the others, the cosmos doesn't do this, the four are cohesive and it is a huge human challenge to get a tenable grasp on a 4D cosmos.

The reality is we can't but we can cheat, I have spent a lot of time trying to conceive ways to cheat the mind and give us a view on this.

Last night I thought of a new way to show how odd the 4D cosmos is and it is a short-cut to getting an insight.

So if your game [or anyone else for that matter] I'll show you.

It's bit 'Blue Peter' but it might help you see our true route through the real 4D cosmos we live in.

First you'll need a piece of A4 paper, something that can make 3 circles about 50mm dia and a pencil with an eraser on the top.

Lay the A4 in 'landscape on your desk, draw 3 circles across it separated evenly.

on the first circle draw two more circles about 5mm in dia and draw them at where the hour hand would point at 8.55 and 3.05 so they are nearly diametrically opposed.

On the second 50 dia circle draw again two circles but just a couple of millimetres across at 7.30 and 4.30.

On the third draw two tiny circles just a couple of millimetres apart each side of 6.00

Label each pair M [for moon] and E [for earth]

If you now join the earth to the moon with a straight line, that is our direct 3D route between the moon and Earth.

Rub out the lower part of the 50 dia circles.

The top arc is our route in 4D, the first at 5 miles per second [3% of c], the middle one at about 30% of c and finally the circle with the Earth and Moon really close is us at about 95% of c.

In the topsy-turvy world of Relativity the 'longer' or 'wavy' route is the shortest one in time.

At first this 'longer' route seems to say that we would take 'longer' to get to the moon, but remember that time has the negative sign before it and the more we travel into that negative the shorter our journey time.

[Gene Vincent]

Bedazzled said:

You should pop c into that equation, otherwise it's apples & pears.

No, you don't.

Start point.

We need to define the units we will use..

Since I'm computing a 'spacetime' distance I'm going to have to use the same units for all quantities.

Distances in space are measured using meters.

So let's take a meter as our measurement.

But humans use seconds for measuring distances in time.

To do this I need to compute the 'spacetime' distance I'll have to convert a second into meters.

Well basically a second is approx. 300,000,000 meters in the temporal (-t) direction.

I'll have to disregard y and z to keep this simple.

So I'll use only ds^2 = dt^2 - dx^2.

We have to zero-out the start point co-ordinates again to keep it simple.

Stationary clock:
If one clock stays where it is for four seconds they end up with coordinates:
(1,200,000,000 ; 0) or t=1,200,000,000 and x=0.

Compute the spacetime distance. Since dx=0 (no difference or change in spatial coordinate) we just have ds^2 = dt^2.

dt = 1,200,000,000 - 0 = 1,200,000,000
dt^2 = 1,440,000,000,000,000,000
Hence ds^2 = 1,440,000,000,000,000,000 and taking the square root:
ds = 1,200,000,000 mtrs.

Moving clock:
The moon is roughly 384,000,000 meters from Earth. The second clock starts at Earth and travels to the moon in two seconds.
So they start at (0 ; 0) and end up at (600,000,000 ; 384,000,000).
The spatial difference is dx = 384,000,000 - 0 = 384,000,000
Similarly, dt = 600,000,000.
dx^2 = 147,456,000,000,000,000
dt^2 = 360,000,000,000,000,000

ds^2 = 360,000,000,000,000,000 - 147,456,000,000,000,000 = 212,544,000,000,000,000.

Taking the square root, ds = 461,024,945 mtrs.

Assume the clock takes an exactly similar journey back to Earth, that is, it returns in two seconds, then the distance for the return journey is again ds = 461,024,945 mtrs.

Hence the total spacetime distance of the moving twin is
ds = 2 x 461,024,945 meters = 922,049,890 meters.

Which is significantly less than the 1,200,000,000 meters of the stationary twin. Hence spacetime distance is reduced by moving through space.

See now?

You only need the value of c to work with.

ETA my own starting point, so I have added that.

Edited by Gene Vincent on Thursday 26th April 12:33

[Gene Vincent]

Bedazzled said:

Gene Vincent said:

I'll have to convert a second into meters. Well basically a second is approx. 300,000,000 meters in the temporal (-t) direction.

That's why you need c in the equation.

ds2 = dx2 + dy2 + dz2 - c2dt2

I don't ask people to run before they can walk, one step at a time.

[mattikake]

Thanks GV. I had a go at your little paper analogy. No problem with that either. My version of your analogy would be to draw 1 50mm circle and fill it with so many 2mm circles representing the Earth and Moon, that the 50mm circle would be completely filled with 2mm circles, that even overlap - not even enough spare room for a single atom. Then you could get to the Earth or Moon using whatever route, in whatever "time", at whatever "speed" you choose, except that if affected by an external force (human intervention), your destination would change beyond your control... but you would still get there regardless of any effects you may feel.

The trouble with physics is it's all to easy to give up when numbers become involved.

[Gene Vincent]

mattikake said:

Thanks GV. I had a go at your little paper analogy. No problem with that either. My version of your analogy would be to draw 1 50mm circle and fill it with so many 2mm circles representing the Earth and Moon, that the 50mm circle would be completely filled with 2mm circles, that even overlap - not even enough spare room for a single atom. Then you could get to the Earth or Moon using whatever route, in whatever "time", at whatever "speed" you choose, except that if affected by an external force (human intervention), your destination would change beyond your control... but you would still get there regardless of any effects you may feel.

The trouble with physics is it's all to easy to give up when numbers become involved.

It's all numbers and unavoidable at some point.