Russia and the ISS

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Pints

18,444 posts

193 months

Tuesday 4th March 2014
quotequote all
Asterix said:
Eric Mc said:
Asterix said:
So Richard Branson has a bit of a head start then.

Strap a couple more engines on his jalopy and it's all systems go!
Coming back would be a bit of a problem.
Pfffffff - minor detail.
yes

If an actress called Sandra can do it, it can't be that hard for a trained astronaut.


Edited by Pints on Tuesday 4th March 18:21

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,779 posts

264 months

Tuesday 4th March 2014
quotequote all
That previous comment requires a Spoiler Alert smile

Coming back from orbit means entering the upper atmosphere at 17,500 mph. Virgin Galactic does not have adequate heat protection to withstand the temperatures generated by those types of velocities.

On its suborbital flights it will not exceed 4,000 mph so the heating it is designed to cope with is a lot less than what is experienced on re-entry from orbit.

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,779 posts

264 months

Tuesday 4th March 2014
quotequote all
Well, the US has ended all military co-operation with Russia as of this morning.

Will space co-operation be next on the list?

TimJMS

2,584 posts

250 months

Tuesday 4th March 2014
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Hope not, or the two yanks on board currently are in for a bit of a wait

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/expediti...

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,779 posts

264 months

Tuesday 4th March 2014
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It might end up like the movie "2010".

Simpo Two

85,148 posts

264 months

Tuesday 4th March 2014
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If you climbed out of the ISS and pushed off towards Earth - how big a parachute would you need to avoid burning up on re-entry? There has to be a way...

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,779 posts

264 months

Tuesday 4th March 2014
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
If you climbed out of the ISS and pushed off towards Earth - how big a parachute would you need to avoid burning up on re-entry? There has to be a way...
Not that way smile

You are still going to enter the atmosphere (eventually) at a speed close on 17,500 mph. So things are still going to get a bit toasty.

jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Tuesday 4th March 2014
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Thick soled boots then. I know someone who makes a cake that is nigh on indestructible, nail some off that to the soles. If you can get the nail in.

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,779 posts

264 months

Tuesday 4th March 2014
quotequote all
At a Farnborough Air Show a few years ago I chatted to a rep from an Italian company which had designed a personal re-entry "bag". The astronaut can encase himself/herself in the bag and the bag will survive the heat of re-entry and, when the speed has decayed, the astronaut unzips the bag, falls out and pops a chute.

I wouldn't want to be the first to give it a try.

jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Tuesday 4th March 2014
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Popping the zip a tad, fingers out..... OUCH, still hot, wait a few minutes.... WHACK....

CrutyRammers

13,735 posts

197 months

Wednesday 14th May 2014
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I guess this partly anwers the op:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/14/russian_ro...

Russian Deputy PM said:
On Tuesday, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said his government will suspend cooperation with the US on international spaceflight efforts, including the sale of rocket components for satellite launches and transport to and from the ISS.

The deputy premier even went as far as threatening to ban Uncle Sam from using the ISS as the two super-powers squabble over American sanctions brought against Russia.

"These sanctions are out of place and inappropriate. We have enough of our own problems,” Rogozin told reporters.

He also claimed the United States cannot make use of the space station without Moscow's involvement: “The Russian segment [of the ISS] can exist independently from the American one. The US one cannot."

@fka_roscosmos doesn't plan to continue cooperation with the US on the ISS after 2020
Bit of an odd position really. With new US-based suppliers now building their own rockets, stopping the sale of Russian ones in 6 years time seems like it can only harm the Russians. The US will have their own by then.

Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Wednesday 14th May 2014
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Eric Mc said:
At a Farnborough Air Show a few years ago I chatted to a rep from an Italian company which had designed a personal re-entry "bag". The astronaut can encase himself/herself in the bag and the bag will survive the heat of re-entry and, when the speed has decayed, the astronaut unzips the bag, falls out and pops a chute.

I wouldn't want to be the first to give it a try.
Bit like a human-sized toastabag.

Simpo Two

85,148 posts

264 months

Wednesday 14th May 2014
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Simpo Two said:
If you climbed out of the ISS and pushed off towards Earth - how big a parachute would you need to avoid burning up on re-entry? There has to be a way...
Not that way smile

You are still going to enter the atmosphere (eventually) at a speed close on 17,500 mph. So things are still going to get a bit toasty.
Hmm. But if the heat is caused by friction with the atmosphere, it must be possible to have some kind of parachute to grip that atmosphere and therefore slow you down...

Maybe get some of jmorgan's cake as well, just to be on the safe side.

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,779 posts

264 months

Wednesday 14th May 2014
quotequote all
You can't deploy a parachute in the earth's atmosphere whilst travelling at anything over about 400 mph. The shock of deployment will just tear it to shreds.

So, all the way from 17,500 mph down to around 500 mph you are depending on atmospheric drag on the structure itself to do the slowing - and of course, at speeds over 4,000 mph, that is going to generate high skin temperatures on the outer surface of the vehicle.


MartG

20,622 posts

203 months

Wednesday 14th May 2014
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Seems like it's escalating...

http://www.iflscience.com/space/russia-threatens-b...

I wonder how quickly SpaceX could get the Dragon/Falcon combination man-rated if it came to the crunch, and the US Government threw enough cash at it. ( The Orbital Sciences Cygnus that has also resupplied the ISS isn't designed for recovery, and Dreamchaser is way off in the future )

They'd also need to be able to launch a module to the ISS capable of replacing the services currently provided by the Russian module that they are talking about removing

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,779 posts

264 months

Wednesday 14th May 2014
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It was bound to happen - although at the moment it sounds to me like political posturing.

Simpo Two

85,148 posts

264 months

Wednesday 14th May 2014
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Eric Mc said:
You can't deploy a parachute in the earth's atmosphere whilst travelling at anything over about 400 mph. The shock of deployment will just tear it to shreds.
Yebbut - you're not in Earth's atmosphere, you've just pushed off from the capsule. No wind. Even if you get to 400mph, you could start with a drogue.

Anyway, this thread is about more important stuff so we'll leave it there.

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,779 posts

264 months

Thursday 15th May 2014
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
Eric Mc said:
You can't deploy a parachute in the earth's atmosphere whilst travelling at anything over about 400 mph. The shock of deployment will just tear it to shreds.
Yebbut - you're not in Earth's atmosphere, you've just pushed off from the capsule. No wind. Even if you get to 400mph, you could start with a drogue.

Anyway, this thread is about more important stuff so we'll leave it there.
No point in deploying a parachute BEFORE you enter the atmosphere. It wouldn't last ten seconds. And that would go for a drogue too.

(Deploying a parachute in the vacuum space is not a good idea - I've seen "Gravity" smile)

Interestingly, it IS possible to deploy a parachute at supersonic speeds on Mars - because the atmosphere is so much thinner. I think the Mars landers tend to deploy their chutes at around 600 to 700 mph.

Simpo Two

85,148 posts

264 months

Thursday 15th May 2014
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You're not seeing the big picture. Somewhere between (a) completely weightless in a vauuum (where you can't deploy a chute because it will do nothing), and (b) plunging earthwards at 400+mph (when you can't deploy a chute because it will be ripped off), there must be SOME mid-point at which there is enough atmosphere to grab/open something and so limit acceleration and the resultant crisping tendencies.

I suggest we use Milliband as a test pilot though, until we get the size and deployment point correct.

CrutyRammers

13,735 posts

197 months

Thursday 15th May 2014
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I don't think it can slow you down enough though, before the air gets dense enough that crisping occurs.