Religious Beliefs/nutters Going To Screw Up First Contact?

Religious Beliefs/nutters Going To Screw Up First Contact?

Author
Discussion

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
If it does no harm, I see no problem.

Obviously, if people use faith (or anything else - such as science ) to propagate hatred and violence, that's not so good.


Simpo Two

85,149 posts

264 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
KareemK said:
Well its a 'Christian' website and labels the list as '44 Prophecies Jesus Christ Fulfilled'

Do you have an alternative list I can peruse please?
No; I was supporting your post smile

Shaolin

2,955 posts

188 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
Toltec said:
A little ironic that faith may be an evolutionary advantage.
I'd not heard that before, though I've always suspected that faith evolved as a way of getting people to live and work together in groups larger than the extended family so giving an evolutionary advantage. We co-existed with Neanderthals for a while but then out competed them, apparently one idea is that they didn't live in groups larger than an extended family group.

I can believe (no irony intended) that religion, ghosts and other woo started off as evolutionarily useful, ghosts, cold draughts, spooky places - avoid caves with predators for e.g.

Halb

Original Poster:

53,012 posts

182 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
My own theory on why Homo Sapiens won is that they were simply a more brutal, vicious creature than the Neanderthal. Easy to out-compete the dozy, soft cousin.

Toltec

7,159 posts

222 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
Shaolin said:
I'd not heard that before, though I've always suspected that faith evolved as a way of getting people to live and work together in groups larger than the extended family so giving an evolutionary advantage. We co-existed with Neanderthals for a while but then out competed them, apparently one idea is that they didn't live in groups larger than an extended family group.

I can believe (no irony intended) that religion, ghosts and other woo started off as evolutionarily useful, ghosts, cold draughts, spooky places - avoid caves with predators for e.g.
Mentioned in this programme http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbra...

BBC said:
Religious evolution

If brain function offers insight into how we experience religion, does it say anything about why we do? There is evidence that people with religious faith have longer, healthier lives. This hints at a survival benefit for religious people. Could we have evolved religious belief?

thegreenhell

15,115 posts

218 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/22/ken-ham-a...

Huff Post said:
Creationist Ken Ham, who recently debated Bill Nye the Science Guy over the origins of the universe, is calling for an end to the search for extraterrestrial life because aliens probably don't exist -- and if they do, they're going to Hell anyway.

"You see, the Bible makes it clear that Adam’s sin affected the whole universe," Ham wrote on his blog on Sunday. "This means that any aliens would also be affected by Adam’s sin, but because they are not Adam’s descendants, they can’t have salvation."

The post was driven in part by NASA experts saying that they expect to find evidence of alien life within the next 20 years.

"It's highly improbable in the limitless vastness of the universe that we humans stand alone," NASA administrator Charles Bolden said last week.

But Ham, president and CEO of Answers in Genesis and the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Ky., said we probably are alone. He wrote "earth was specially created," and the entire hunt for extraterrestrials is "really driven by man’s rebellion against God in a desperate attempt to supposedly prove evolution!"

If aliens do exist, however, Ham said even Jesus can't save them:

"Jesus did not become the “GodKlingon” or the “GodMartian”! Only descendants of Adam can be saved. God’s Son remains the “Godman” as our Savior. In fact, the Bible makes it clear that we see the Father through the Son (and we see the Son through His Word). To suggest that aliens could respond to the gospel is just totally wrong."

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Watched "Paul" last night.

Paul's take on religion was interesting.

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
Toltec said:
Iirc there was evidence that being able to believe in supernatural powers actually had benefits for life expectancy. A little ironic that faith may be an evolutionary advantage.
It would only make an evolutionary difference if it represented an advantage to reaching reproductive age as opposed to not reaching reproductive age; if it's just the difference between, say, a life expectancy of 78 as opposed to 84 then there's no evolutionary advantage.

Toltec

7,159 posts

222 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
xRIEx said:
It would only make an evolutionary difference if it represented an advantage to reaching reproductive age as opposed to not reaching reproductive age; if it's just the difference between, say, a life expectancy of 78 as opposed to 84 then there's no evolutionary advantage.
Life expectancy has not always been what it is now so that might be possible, also there could be an advantage from the extended family in terms of child rearing. Then again maybe not smile



KareemK

1,110 posts

118 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
KareemK said:
Well its a 'Christian' website and labels the list as '44 Prophecies Jesus Christ Fulfilled'

Do you have an alternative list I can peruse please?
No; I was supporting your post smile
beer

Halmyre

11,148 posts

138 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Halb said:
My own theory on why Homo Sapiens won is that they were simply a more brutal, vicious creature than the Neanderthal. Easy to out-compete the dozy, soft cousin.
Or else Neanderthals were...tasty...

scubadude

2,618 posts

196 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Evolution versus Creationism, the age of our planet and human civilisation, dinosaurs... not much agreement between science and religion on any of those, or are they also 'minor, obscure exceptions'?
:-)

Creationism (in the original basic form) does not preclude Evolution, Evolution does not define if natural selection is in anyway pre-ordained, just that it works.

No one actually cares about the age of the planet FFS.

Dinosaurs- If there is a religion that actively promotes their non-existence? If so its not a mainstream one and since they don't upset most creation "stories" its immaterial.

So yes- minor exceptions. Don't confuse "story" text with religious belief, very different things.

The major religions have long accepted that "creation" merely describes the intention to create, not the exact mechanism. The stories in religious texts are allegory, 7 days or 14billion years- either way is irrelevant if you want to believe "and God said..."


Sure you can trot out Scientology and all manner of fringe nutjobs who'll believe in the most bizarre nonsense but most posters here seem to be from a "conventional" viewpoint, as far as I can see the major scientific discovery's are compatible to Christian, Jewish, Catholic and Islamic ideas and plenty of acknowledged Scientists have a faith.

There is no reason a sane person can't be religious, a scientist and not-surprised when aliens make contact IMO

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
scubadude said:
No one actually cares about the age of the planet FFS.

Dinosaurs- If there is a religion that actively promotes their non-existence? If so its not a mainstream one and since they don't upset most creation "stories" its immaterial.

So yes- minor exceptions. Don't confuse "story" text with religious belief, very different things.
Unfortunately YECs aren't so fringe, especially in the USA. There are a lot of those nutjobs in the Senate and Congress, and other levels of government.

budfox

1,510 posts

128 months

Sunday 3rd August 2014
quotequote all
scubadude said:
Interesting you added the "(nutters)" tag... much as it pains many religious people (and a few scientists) to admit it the overwhelming majority of Science and Religion do not in any way cancel each other out! Scientists have never disproved any of the major religions and those same religions don't disagree with anything* science has found.
(* Ok, a few minor, obscure exceptions more likely related to the available language of the time the religious texts are from)

As an example, the Christian Bible is a dialogue between Humankind and God, it does not mention ET as they are not germane- it also doesn't say there aren't any. As such a religious "nutter" has nothing to fear from First Contact.
Equally a scientist has nothing to fear as many regard first contact (or at least detection) as inevitable.


That's not to say generic nutters won't run around like Headless chickens when Martians land on the front lawn of the White house with a box chocolates and a nice bottle of plonk for the Obamas.
What a pile of crap

jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Sunday 3rd August 2014
quotequote all
The smarter religious, erm, leaders (?) will very probably say "told you so" anyway. Bit hard to say "It aint so" when it is all over the press. I expect the lunatic fringe to to back track and say "I told you so".


I think though there are many people in the world with greater issues and will not be to bothered seeing as they have more pressing issues.

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Sunday 3rd August 2014
quotequote all
scubadude said:
Scientists have never disproved any of the major religions and those same religions don't disagree with anything* science has found.
Everything that has ever been proven, has been proven not to be as a result of a deity. Whichever way you look at it, that's a pretty good record for atheism.

However, they have proved that Heaven is hotter than Hell.

supertouring

2,228 posts

232 months

Sunday 3rd August 2014
quotequote all
scubadude said:
plenty of acknowledged Scientists have a faith.
So what?



Toltec

7,159 posts

222 months

Monday 4th August 2014
quotequote all
scubadude said:
There is no reason a sane person can't be religious, a scientist and not-surprised when aliens make contact IMO
That is only because sanity is based on the societal norm.

I have always enjoyed SF and fantasy novels as they can take you you to a 'reality' outside the daily grind of existence. At one time I thought that religious people just could not deal with reality without the prop of faith. At others that they lack the intelligence or imagination to appreciate how amazing the universe is if you do not use a deity to explain its existence. It is of course not that simple.

One of the scariest questions religious people ask is 'if you don't believe in god what makes you be good?'. Normally that makes me worry about what they would do if the existence of god was disproved, where would their moral compass come from? In the context of aliens since they do not fall into the framework of belief what would be the imperative to treat them morally?


Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Monday 4th August 2014
quotequote all
I just came across this fantastic website, linked from the Daily Mash, of all places.

Is the Earth only 6,000 year old?

Great fun watching religionists trying to bend the unavoidable truth to fit their beliefs.

Apparently the Earth is billions of years old, but God gave it a makeover 6,000 years ago to get it ready for Adam and Eve to move in.

Halmyre

11,148 posts

138 months

Monday 4th August 2014
quotequote all
Johnnytheboy said:
I just came across this fantastic website, linked from the Daily Mash, of all places.

Is the Earth only 6,000 year old?

Great fun watching religionists trying to bend the unavoidable truth to fit their beliefs.

Apparently the Earth is billions of years old, but God gave it a makeover 6,000 years ago to get it ready for Adam and Eve to move in.
Tossers.

Loved this throwaway statement: "While scientists do not always interpret the data correctly...", especially after several paragraphs of manipulating passages from the bible to suit their own views.