Pope Finally Admits Evolution and the Big Bang Are Fact
Discussion
Well Halle-f
king-lujah!!!
Welcome to the 20th century Pope, just another 100 years to catch up on now.
http://www.standartnews.com/english/read/breaking_...
At least he's contradicting the Creationists which has to be a good thing.
Apparently God is not "a magician with a magic wand", Pope Francis has declared.
king-lujah!!!Welcome to the 20th century Pope, just another 100 years to catch up on now.
http://www.standartnews.com/english/read/breaking_...
At least he's contradicting the Creationists which has to be a good thing.
Apparently God is not "a magician with a magic wand", Pope Francis has declared.
Ironically, the Vatican approved the Big Bang almost as soon as it was first put forward as a theory.
It is the Ptotestant Fundamentalist churches - including some extreme elements of the Anglican Church - who are far more "bible literal" than the vast bulk of Catholics.
Catholics look on the Bible as a set of guidelines and moral tales. Evangelical Protestants look on the Bible as an accurate historical account and rule book.
However, why is this in the "Science" section?
What has a church's view on a scientific theory got to do with actual science?
It is the Ptotestant Fundamentalist churches - including some extreme elements of the Anglican Church - who are far more "bible literal" than the vast bulk of Catholics.
Catholics look on the Bible as a set of guidelines and moral tales. Evangelical Protestants look on the Bible as an accurate historical account and rule book.
However, why is this in the "Science" section?
What has a church's view on a scientific theory got to do with actual science?
Far better to go with the flow than fight it. They can spin it from this angle. 400 years ago they would have nailed you to a plank for saying the same, sciency stuff moves on and they see that it would not be a good idea to refuse it. So spin it in with current thinking. Don't worry, they will still have a god pulling the strings.
jmorgan said:
Far better to go with the flow than fight it. They can spin it from this angle. 400 years ago they would have nailed you to a plank for saying the same, sciency stuff moves on and they see that it would not be a good idea to refuse it. So spin it in with current thinking. Don't worry, they will still have a god pulling the strings.
As I said the Vatican endorsed the Big Bang hypotheses right from the moment it was put forward over 60 years ago.Don't forget that up until The Big Bang, the generally held scientific view was that the universe had always existed and always would. The Christian Church (Catholic or otherwise) has always held the view that the universe had a beginning and would have an end.
The Big Bang Theory states exactly that - although we are now seeing the re-emergence of modified versions of the Big Bang which allow the "forever" universe theory to make a comeback.
And, if anyone is wondering about whether the Vatican supports science or not - here's the Vatican Observatory at Castel Gondolfo (the Pope's Summer Residence).
You can read about the Vatican Observatory here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Observatory
KareemK said:
That would be because the it involves Evolution and the Big Bang vs Made in Gods Image and Creation.
Look upon it as like the Climate Change thread where there are believers and non-believers.
Not quite sir.Look upon it as like the Climate Change thread where there are believers and non-believers.
1) Science vs Religion is philosophy not science
2) The climate change debate is based on various measurements and their interpretation, not a 2,000+ year old book.
Quote from Wiki -
Pope Pius XII declared, at the November 22, 1951, opening meeting of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, that the Big Bang theory does not conflict with the Catholic concept of creation.
Some Conservative Protestant Christian denominations have also welcomed the Big Bang theory as supporting a historical interpretation of the doctrine of creation; however, some adherents to Young Earth Creationism, which advocate a very literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis, reject the theory.
Pope Pius XII declared, at the November 22, 1951, opening meeting of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, that the Big Bang theory does not conflict with the Catholic concept of creation.
Some Conservative Protestant Christian denominations have also welcomed the Big Bang theory as supporting a historical interpretation of the doctrine of creation; however, some adherents to Young Earth Creationism, which advocate a very literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis, reject the theory.
It's fact v fictionEric Mc said:
Quote from Wiki -
Pope Pius XII declared, at the November 22, 1951, opening meeting of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, that the Big Bang theory does not conflict with the Catholic concept of creation.
Perhaps, but there's a key difference between a Pope saying that "the Big Bang theory does not conflict with the Catholic concept of creation" and the latest Pope saying that both scientific theories were not incompatible with the existence of a creator – arguing instead that they "require it".Pope Pius XII declared, at the November 22, 1951, opening meeting of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, that the Big Bang theory does not conflict with the Catholic concept of creation.
They were hedging their bets in the 20th century.
MiniMan64 said:
Surely the comment on Evolution is far more earth-shaking?
As I understood it the church never had a problem with the Big Bang theory, it fits their version of events far better than other theories.
Not really; the Catholic church reads the Bible a little bit more allegorically than protestants; In their reading, the universe is like a carefully lined up domino run; loads of crazy stuff happens but it's all by the big guy's plan. However, he isn't flicking down each and every domino with his finger. As I understood it the church never had a problem with the Big Bang theory, it fits their version of events far better than other theories.
KareemK said:
Perhaps, but there's a key difference between a Pope saying that "the Big Bang theory does not conflict with the Catholic concept of creation" and the latest Pope saying that both scientific theories were not incompatible with the existence of a creator – arguing instead that they "require it".
They were hedging their bets in the 20th century.
If you have ever read the history of how The Big Bang theory came about, you will find that one of the leading scientists behind the formulation of the theory was a Catholic Jesuit priest - Father George Lamaitre - They were hedging their bets in the 20th century.
Monseigneur Georges Lemaître, a Belgian Catholic Priest, was the originator of what would become known as the "Big Bang Theory".
KareemK said:
Well Halle-fking-lujah!!!
Welcome to the 20th century Pope, just another 100 years to catch up on now.
http://www.standartnews.com/english/read/breaking_...
At least he's contradicting the Creationists which has to be a good thing.
Apparently God is not "a magician with a magic wand", Pope Francis has declared.
Technically, they are theories – or, rather, the best explanations we have to date. king-lujah!!!Welcome to the 20th century Pope, just another 100 years to catch up on now.
http://www.standartnews.com/english/read/breaking_...
At least he's contradicting the Creationists which has to be a good thing.
Apparently God is not "a magician with a magic wand", Pope Francis has declared.
davepoth said:
In their reading, the universe is like a carefully lined up domino run; loads of crazy stuff happens but it's all by the big guy's plan. However, he isn't flicking down each and every domino with his finger.
That is a controversial interpretation, its explicitly written to point out that the God as described in the Bible doesn't go along with Fate. Even if he/she/it is responsible for the "Let there be light" Big Bang element its been a free run since. The whole point of Christian religions is choice- you Choose to sin, you can choose to repent etc, nothing is forced, no fate, no inevitable outcomes, no one to blame when things go wrong etc
As such there is really nothing in the Bible/Religion that contests the Big Bang Theory or Evolution (or Aliens, or Dinosaurs etc) its just a book written "recording" the dialogue between God and humankind over the last 6000-ish years, many things aren't covered as they aren't germane.
I'm not religious but had a religious upbringing, in my experience the greatest damage to religion is done by the most religious people themselves, misinterpreting and using their religious texts wrongly (all faiths)
The only really humble, faithful people I've met are totally anonymous, the people who hand out food to the homeless and look after aids sufferers paid for off their own backs without any support and no preaching or ramming stuff down others throats, we (the world) needs selfless people like that, funnily enough I know of a devout Christian man who is a Astronomy PhD and lecturer at University teaching cosmology, big bang etc, he sees no issue between faith and work, you can have both without getting wound up in knots.
scubadude said:
The only really humble, faithful people I've met are totally anonymous...
Well, herein lies the problem because whether somebody is really faithful or not is entirely down to how a person has been taught their respective version of their respective religion. I'd imagine more than a few IS members might consider themselves really faithful too.I think it was only in 1985 that Pope John Paul II finally admitted that the church was wrong to persecute Galileo, and that they now accepted that the Earth does go around the sun after all.
So to move from that to accepting evolution in just 29 yrs is pretty rapid progress. Give it another 30 yrs and they might accept that condoms don't spread aids, but help prevent it.
So to move from that to accepting evolution in just 29 yrs is pretty rapid progress. Give it another 30 yrs and they might accept that condoms don't spread aids, but help prevent it.
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