SpaceX Tuesday...
Discussion
Caruso said:
I think the thing about Musk and therefore Spacex is that they're willing to take financial risks that the existing big players can't because of their boards/shareholders. Spacex has invested heavily in technological developments that have long term payoffs which are now giving them a big competitive advantage.
One of the big differences is that SpaceX started from first principles on a blank sheet of paper. Not just in the design but also manufacturing processes, using normal aerospace components vs space-rated components, vertically integration vs length supply chain, testing to name a few.Whereas ULA/NASA are somewhat hamstrung by past investments and pressure to reuse existing designs.
Above all SpaceX have had Apollo-level focus on one mission - getting to Mars economically. The Shuttle and more recent NASA projects have often suffered from unclear missions, resulting in compromised designs.
ninja-lewis said:
One of the big differences is that SpaceX started from first principles on a blank sheet of paper. Not just in the design but also manufacturing processes, using normal aerospace components vs space-rated components, vertically integration vs length supply chain, testing to name a few.
Whereas ULA/NASA are somewhat hamstrung by past investments and pressure to reuse existing designs.
Above all SpaceX have had Apollo-level focus on one mission - getting to Mars economically. The Shuttle and more recent NASA projects have often suffered from unclear missions, resulting in compromised designs.
Absolutely agree on the vertical integration. They make everything from the engines, tanks and fairings to the software and it cuts out the costs of outsourcing. The first principles, definitely they're trying new stuff like 3D printed parts and going with their own engines is definitely a big part of the blank sheet approach that makes a difference. But also they're re-using stuff that other people developed that works well e.g. friction stir welding for the tanks. Makes a lot of sense to combine their new stuff and the old stuff that works well.Whereas ULA/NASA are somewhat hamstrung by past investments and pressure to reuse existing designs.
Above all SpaceX have had Apollo-level focus on one mission - getting to Mars economically. The Shuttle and more recent NASA projects have often suffered from unclear missions, resulting in compromised designs.
SpaceX have applied for permission to built a couple more landing pads at Landing Zone 1. This'll allow them to potentially land all three rocket cores from the Falcon 9 Heavy back at the cape. They'll likely use the landing ship for the centre core most of the time though.
This is the former Launch Complex 13 (LC-13) that was part of "missile row" in the 60s:
LC-13 is the 4th one up on the right. It had been disused since 1980 and the launch tower is no longer there.
Falcon 9s are launched from Space Launch Complex 40, which is about 7 miles to the north, at the top of that photo.
The Falcon 9 heavy will launch further north than that, at Launch Complex 39. Specifically Launch Pad 39A, the former home of Saturn 5 and the Space Shuttle.
This is the former Launch Complex 13 (LC-13) that was part of "missile row" in the 60s:
LC-13 is the 4th one up on the right. It had been disused since 1980 and the launch tower is no longer there.
Falcon 9s are launched from Space Launch Complex 40, which is about 7 miles to the north, at the top of that photo.
The Falcon 9 heavy will launch further north than that, at Launch Complex 39. Specifically Launch Pad 39A, the former home of Saturn 5 and the Space Shuttle.
mikees said:
So do we buy the musk manned missions and Mars gig?
I was IM a friend from uni who's involved with MIT who said musk was pumping money into some theoretical FTL research. Credible ? He's in AI research so could be coffee shop rumour.
Musk certainly seems willing to throw cash around but FTL sounds boldocks.
What reasons do you have to doubt SpaceX/Musk?I was IM a friend from uni who's involved with MIT who said musk was pumping money into some theoretical FTL research. Credible ? He's in AI research so could be coffee shop rumour.
Musk certainly seems willing to throw cash around but FTL sounds boldocks.
The Dragon is routinely flying pressurised cargo to the ISS, arguably if you could get past the paperwork you could have ridden on it this week so they can "do manned" now. Dragon2 has done most of its testing, that's planned to haul 7 people to LEO.
As for Mars- Musk has spoken alot but the only claim so far is to land a Dragon capsule (The Red Dragon) on Mars (he said 2018 but I think we'd all imagine that might slip) if its uncrewed and light there is no reason why the (to be tested in Sept) Falcon Heavy couldn't fling a Dragon to Mars.
Musk has said he'll realise details of his MCT (Mars Colonial Transport) Yes, it is really called that, later this year. The money is on a Jumbo Falcon heavy to put 300tonnes into a Mars transit!!!
It sounds preposterous, but what would the man on the street in 1945 think if you said you would build a Saturn5 in just a few years time?
FTL will be an amusing lab experiment unless you also invent a practical means of powering it as whatever FTL turns out to be it will involve boggling amounts of energy. MSRs are a bit tricksy in microgravity although you could spin them, which leaves the ever-distant fusion reactor or some as yet fictional thing like dilithium crystals, anti-matter or really hot cups of tea. 
scubadude said:
mikees said:
So do we buy the musk manned missions and Mars gig?
I was IM a friend from uni who's involved with MIT who said musk was pumping money into some theoretical FTL research. Credible ? He's in AI research so could be coffee shop rumour.
Musk certainly seems willing to throw cash around but FTL sounds boldocks.
What reasons do you have to doubt SpaceX/Musk?I was IM a friend from uni who's involved with MIT who said musk was pumping money into some theoretical FTL research. Credible ? He's in AI research so could be coffee shop rumour.
Musk certainly seems willing to throw cash around but FTL sounds boldocks.
The Dragon is routinely flying pressurised cargo to the ISS, arguably if you could get past the paperwork you could have ridden on it this week so they can "do manned" now. Dragon2 has done most of its testing, that's planned to haul 7 people to LEO.
As for Mars- Musk has spoken alot but the only claim so far is to land a Dragon capsule (The Red Dragon) on Mars (he said 2018 but I think we'd all imagine that might slip) if its uncrewed and light there is no reason why the (to be tested in Sept) Falcon Heavy couldn't fling a Dragon to Mars.
Musk has said he'll realise details of his MCT (Mars Colonial Transport) Yes, it is really called that, later this year. The money is on a Jumbo Falcon heavy to put 300tonnes into a Mars transit!!!
It sounds preposterous, but what would the man on the street in 1945 think if you said you would build a Saturn5 in just a few years time?
RobDickinson said:
It'll be a whole new rocket, 9-10 meter diameter.
Indeed, supposedly 10m in diameter like the Saturn V's first & second stages. Maybe larger.It's informally known within SpaceX as the BFR (Big F***ing Rocket).
Something that big is too large to transport more than a few miles by road, so they'd have to ship it in like the Saturn V's first & second stages and the Shuttle's external tank were.
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4206/ch10.htm
mikees said:
I buy it, but don't understand enough to validate the timescales.
Well that's easy... so far almost everything Musk has helmed has been- "A bit late but worked as claimed" which is surprisingly because his time estimates are so short, so even when he's late its relatively quick and that so far, everything he's said he wants to do has pretty much worked, its fairly astonishing really.So, I am pretty sure he will fly stuff to Mars, it might be late but it'll happen (probably)
The pace at which SpaceX is doing things is on a par with what NASA could do in the early to mid 1960s i.e. they had a free hand and fairly unlimited budgets to push through missions and tests at a very fast rate. NASA can't do this any more.
SpaceX can.
I am very impressed with what Musk is doing and I am confident that most, if not all, of his plans will come to fruition.
SpaceX can.
I am very impressed with what Musk is doing and I am confident that most, if not all, of his plans will come to fruition.
Eric Mc said:
The pace at which SpaceX is doing things is on a par with what NASA could do in the early to mid 1960s i.e. they had a free hand and fairly unlimited budgets to push through missions and tests at a very fast rate. NASA can't do this any more.
SpaceX can.
I am very impressed with what Musk is doing and I am confident that most, if not all, of his plans will come to fruition.
Took the words out my mouth Eric.SpaceX can.
I am very impressed with what Musk is doing and I am confident that most, if not all, of his plans will come to fruition.
Eric Mc said:
The pace at which SpaceX is doing things is on a par with what NASA could do in the early to mid 1960s i.e. they had a free hand and fairly unlimited budgets to push through missions and tests at a very fast rate. NASA can't do this any more.
SpaceX can.
I am very impressed with what Musk is doing and I am confident that most, if not all, of his plans will come to fruition.
Indeed. I just wish he'd get a move on and announce plans for a rotating, artificial gravity, space station/craft....SpaceX can.
I am very impressed with what Musk is doing and I am confident that most, if not all, of his plans will come to fruition.
SpaceX's President, Gwynne Shotwell talked a little about the Mars mission back in late 2014:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoCDLUHb0y4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoCDLUHb0y4
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