Discussion
Would a Minuteman or Trident be able to put their warheads into orbit? What type of speeds do these booster reach before deploying the warhead?
Or, more importantly, would they be able to directly hit an alien spacecraft hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of miles out into space.
The early liquid fueled ICBMs were indeed the basis of the early space launchers. In fact, two current launchers are direct descendants of these missiles, the US Atlas and the Russian Soyuz (R7).
However, they were hopelessly useless as ICBMs due to the inability to fire them off at short notice - and they were also powerful enough to lift the old technology heavy warheads of the 1950s.
Or, more importantly, would they be able to directly hit an alien spacecraft hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of miles out into space.
The early liquid fueled ICBMs were indeed the basis of the early space launchers. In fact, two current launchers are direct descendants of these missiles, the US Atlas and the Russian Soyuz (R7).
However, they were hopelessly useless as ICBMs due to the inability to fire them off at short notice - and they were also powerful enough to lift the old technology heavy warheads of the 1950s.
Flooble said:
Would we even see spread-spectrum type transmissions as anything other than background noise unless we were looking for them?
extremely unlikely. What would you pre-load the de-spread correlator with? best would be narrow band carrier as the Receive sensitivity will be heighest;If I was a sentient being who had the ability to contact us, I really wouldn't bother.
We kill each other for the most bizarre reasons, worship people we have never met or seen, base our society on a volume (number) of something we have made up and wouldn't be able to handle an event like this.
I'd avoid us until we either get our act together, or obliterate ourselves so there are only a few remaining examples.
We kill each other for the most bizarre reasons, worship people we have never met or seen, base our society on a volume (number) of something we have made up and wouldn't be able to handle an event like this.
I'd avoid us until we either get our act together, or obliterate ourselves so there are only a few remaining examples.
Eric Mc said:
Would a Minuteman or Trident be able to put their warheads into orbit? What type of speeds do these booster reach before deploying the warhead?
Or, more importantly, would they be able to directly hit an alien spacecraft hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of miles out into space.
The early liquid fueled ICBMs were indeed the basis of the early space launchers. In fact, two current launchers are direct descendants of these missiles, the US Atlas and the Russian Soyuz (R7).
However, they were hopelessly useless as ICBMs due to the inability to fire them off at short notice - and they were also powerful enough to lift the old technology heavy warheads of the 1950s.
Or, more importantly, would they be able to directly hit an alien spacecraft hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of miles out into space.
The early liquid fueled ICBMs were indeed the basis of the early space launchers. In fact, two current launchers are direct descendants of these missiles, the US Atlas and the Russian Soyuz (R7).
However, they were hopelessly useless as ICBMs due to the inability to fire them off at short notice - and they were also powerful enough to lift the old technology heavy warheads of the 1950s.
First of all Trident has the speed to place a satellite in to orbit @ 18,000 mph and apparently can reach 900 miles in altitude
Toaster said:
First of all Trident has the speed to place a satellite in to orbit @ 18,000 mph and apparently can reach 900 miles in altitude
How big a satellite? One that would frighten off an alien attack?So, the smart alien parks his orbiting ray gun device in an orbit 901 or so miles above the earth and it is safe from a Trident attack then.
love it op talks about contact and what happens next and we are on page 2 talking about nuking them.......lol 
Before we learn and can do interplanetary trips as a norm then it is very likely that any other alien contact is likely to be from a race that is so way way ahead of us technology wise we could not defend ourselves.
aka a hedghog (us) -v- a jcb digger (them)
If there is life out there which Im sure there will be, just from the numbers of planets x years - then they most likely know we are here already. (lots of paintings and reports of ufos throughout history)
Lets hope there is a code of conduct and space police that protects us as a developing world/species. I also hope and that we are not in the way of an intergalactic highway with the demolition notice posted on alfa centri for us all to see 2000 years ago.
Ive got my towel.
Before we learn and can do interplanetary trips as a norm then it is very likely that any other alien contact is likely to be from a race that is so way way ahead of us technology wise we could not defend ourselves.
aka a hedghog (us) -v- a jcb digger (them)
If there is life out there which Im sure there will be, just from the numbers of planets x years - then they most likely know we are here already. (lots of paintings and reports of ufos throughout history)
Lets hope there is a code of conduct and space police that protects us as a developing world/species. I also hope and that we are not in the way of an intergalactic highway with the demolition notice posted on alfa centri for us all to see 2000 years ago.
Ive got my towel.
The Drake equation is looking very heavy on the possible likely life bearing planet side. We are continuing to nail down parameters for this and the numbers are high, thanks kepler.
The other side is the fermi paradox, which is quite scary....
Timing/distance I think is the real biatch. We've had radio waves for what 100ish years , and only recently strong enough to be 'heard' outside our solar system. Now we have gone digital mostly those signals will sound like random noise.
Even if there is intelligent life 'close by' conversations would take decades.
The other side is the fermi paradox, which is quite scary....
Timing/distance I think is the real biatch. We've had radio waves for what 100ish years , and only recently strong enough to be 'heard' outside our solar system. Now we have gone digital mostly those signals will sound like random noise.
Even if there is intelligent life 'close by' conversations would take decades.
digimeistter said:
We have definitely not reached the great filter 
The Fermi Paradox might imply that we are past it.Intelligence capable of creating a technological civilisation may be incredibly rare. As in one or two per galaxy rare.
Take the Greenbank Formula, assume a high value for everything (which is in line with what we see) except "Fi", the chance of life being intelligent. Make that ten to the minus 20 or something similar.
This actually fits what we see on Earth. We've had, IIRC, a 100 million species but only one that invented the wheel. If you look up how many animals use tools you don't have to go far down the list to find an octopus using a coconut shell as a hideout.
RobDickinson said:
The Drake equation is looking very heavy on the possible likely life bearing planet side. We are continuing to nail down parameters for this and the numbers are high, thanks kepler.
The other side is the fermi paradox, which is quite scary....
See my post above.The other side is the fermi paradox, which is quite scary....
Chances of planets having life (Drake Equation) is high.
Number of those that are intelligent (Drake Equation parameter Fi) incredibly small.
So lots of life but hardly any gets to invent fire or the wheel.
Which leads straight to the Fermi Paradox being explained.
An alternative is that Fi is high but somewhere out there is an ET that really doesn't like competition. That also answers the Fermi Paradox...
I reckon the great filter was the asteroid that brought us about... Several years or so later.
Or that the earth was a failed experiment with dinosaurs not going they way they wanted, so they nuked from orbit and the secondary species emerged out of the ashes.... us and they have not noticed as to them we are a discarded experiment.
Or that the earth was a failed experiment with dinosaurs not going they way they wanted, so they nuked from orbit and the secondary species emerged out of the ashes.... us and they have not noticed as to them we are a discarded experiment.
Solaris is a good sci-fi story for that.
The issues that two species would have in having any interaction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_(novel)
The issues that two species would have in having any interaction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_(novel)
From the drake equation
N = R * Fp * Ne * Fe * Fi * Fc * L
R = the average rate of star formation in our galaxy
Fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
Ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
Fl = the fraction of planets that could support life that actually develop life at some point
Fi = the fraction of planets with life that actually go on to develop intelligent life (civilizations)
Fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space
Taking current estimates from Wikipedia, plus my own thoughts, we have
R = 7
Fp = 1
Ne = 1 - All stars have at least one planet or moon that can support life
Fl = 1 - Thermodynamics (Jeremy England's theory) apparently suggests it may be inevitable where conditions allow. It certainly started quickly on Earth.
Fi = very small
Fc = 1 - any advanced civilisation can be detected, they are sure to do, make or influence something in a way we can detect
L = 5 Billion years , any advanced civilisation ultimately removes all obstacles to its existence. However there are no civilisations older than 5 Billion as the heavier elements, required for life, were not present in the early universe.
So that gives
N = 35 Billion * Fi
The total number of species on Earth, including extinct ones, is estimated as several billion and only one got as far as the wheel, fire or the lever. Evolution needed several run ups to this state and we're due another mass extinction about now. If we'd been slightly later on the scene then that next big asteroid would wipe us out, as it is we are only just capable of dealing with it when it comes. The number of people that make significant technological contributions every generation is very small. In other species technical ability hardly exists at all. You don't need to look far down the list of animals known to use tools to see that any kind of technology, even just hitting something with a stick, is very rare. Given how many species there are on Earth it seems highly likely that Fi is less than a very small number.
My estimate for Fi is 1E-10 (3 civilisations) to 1E-12 (just us, we're a freak event)
N = R * Fp * Ne * Fe * Fi * Fc * L
R = the average rate of star formation in our galaxy
Fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
Ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
Fl = the fraction of planets that could support life that actually develop life at some point
Fi = the fraction of planets with life that actually go on to develop intelligent life (civilizations)
Fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space
Taking current estimates from Wikipedia, plus my own thoughts, we have
R = 7
Fp = 1
Ne = 1 - All stars have at least one planet or moon that can support life
Fl = 1 - Thermodynamics (Jeremy England's theory) apparently suggests it may be inevitable where conditions allow. It certainly started quickly on Earth.
Fi = very small
Fc = 1 - any advanced civilisation can be detected, they are sure to do, make or influence something in a way we can detect
L = 5 Billion years , any advanced civilisation ultimately removes all obstacles to its existence. However there are no civilisations older than 5 Billion as the heavier elements, required for life, were not present in the early universe.
So that gives
N = 35 Billion * Fi
The total number of species on Earth, including extinct ones, is estimated as several billion and only one got as far as the wheel, fire or the lever. Evolution needed several run ups to this state and we're due another mass extinction about now. If we'd been slightly later on the scene then that next big asteroid would wipe us out, as it is we are only just capable of dealing with it when it comes. The number of people that make significant technological contributions every generation is very small. In other species technical ability hardly exists at all. You don't need to look far down the list of animals known to use tools to see that any kind of technology, even just hitting something with a stick, is very rare. Given how many species there are on Earth it seems highly likely that Fi is less than a very small number.
My estimate for Fi is 1E-10 (3 civilisations) to 1E-12 (just us, we're a freak event)
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