Universe is not real and is instead a giant simulation
Discussion
ash73 said:
SpeckledJim said:
Yes, that decision came about as a result of various measurable, quantifiable actions from within and without your body, including your current surroundings, level of hunger, and memories of how much you like chicken nuggets.
It's not that simple. Chaos theory describes how some mechanisms are so sensitive to inputs the output is entirely unpredictable. And quantum mechanics shows it's even worse than that, we don't live in a deterministic universe at all; you could provide all the same inputs and get a different answer because it's probability based. The neurons in the human brain use the same underlying physics.Determinism asserts you could set the start parameters of a universe and, with a good enough computer, predict literally everything that would happen. But we've known since the 1920's that's not possible.
SpeckledJim said:
Yes, that decision came about as a result of various measurable, quantifiable actions from within and without your body, including your current surroundings, level of hunger, and memories of how much you like chicken nuggets.
You can call it free-will if you like, but that might be a bit arrogant, since your can't say why your decision is what it is.
It's unsettling to think about, but xjay1337 responds basically completely predictably, once you know enough detail about him.
It's knowing that level of detail that (to us, at the moment) is unmanageable.
OK, but I do not believe we are living in a simulation while actually being in a tub of sYou can call it free-will if you like, but that might be a bit arrogant, since your can't say why your decision is what it is.
It's unsettling to think about, but xjay1337 responds basically completely predictably, once you know enough detail about him.
It's knowing that level of detail that (to us, at the moment) is unmanageable.
te generating power for a higher being (for example like the Matrix).I think we are beings who have free will. We have no evidence at all that I can see that suggests we are anything other than that.
SpeckledJim said:
I won't argue with a single part of that, except your suggestion that xjay1337 is a sensitive mechanism.
You know me so well, petal.(I don't know what you mean, also, don't act like you know me).
R E S T E C P said:
If you had never seen or heard of a chicken nugget before, you wouldn't want them.
Your past experiences have led to you making that decision.
If you factor in:
1) Every food that you know exists
2) The exact quantities of those foods that you have eaten
3) The surroundings at the time when you ate those foods
4) How you were feeling when you ate those foods
5) The temperature of the foods while you ate them
6) The temperature of the air around you
7) The noises you heard while eating them, and the memories/thoughts that those brought up
8) Every detail of every other event that happened while you were forming your long-term memory of those foods
... And another few trillion factors
... And you built a computer that was able to record every minute detail of every factor of your life to a molecular level of detail
... And it had enough processing power
... Then maybe it could predict that you would decide that you want chicken nuggets at that exact moment.
We already have computers that can do all of that! But we didn't invent them, we're born with them. Looking at the rate technology is advancing, I think we'll get there in less than the time human civilisation has already existed.
Ok, fair enough.Your past experiences have led to you making that decision.
If you factor in:
1) Every food that you know exists
2) The exact quantities of those foods that you have eaten
3) The surroundings at the time when you ate those foods
4) How you were feeling when you ate those foods
5) The temperature of the foods while you ate them
6) The temperature of the air around you
7) The noises you heard while eating them, and the memories/thoughts that those brought up
8) Every detail of every other event that happened while you were forming your long-term memory of those foods
... And another few trillion factors
... And you built a computer that was able to record every minute detail of every factor of your life to a molecular level of detail
... And it had enough processing power
... Then maybe it could predict that you would decide that you want chicken nuggets at that exact moment.
We already have computers that can do all of that! But we didn't invent them, we're born with them. Looking at the rate technology is advancing, I think we'll get there in less than the time human civilisation has already existed.
That does make sense, I can understand that.
I just don't think such a computer exists but I acknowledge it could be possible!
xjay1337 said:
smn159 said:
Indeed. What exactly is 'free will' anyway? What we have is most likely an illusion of free will. As above, thoughts arise spontaneously in your subconscious as a result of a chemical / electrical process and driven by a number of variables including past experiences. It's been shown that 'conscious' decisions to take action are made before you are even aware of them.
With enough processing power it can be simulated.
I have just decided that I want Chicken Nuggets for dinner.With enough processing power it can be simulated.
Isn't that free will?
Terminator X said:
^^ 1bn years before Sun is too hot and evaporates all our water.
TX.
That's ok, machine intelligence will have evolved long before that and they won't need the water. I think it quite likely that sentient beings wherever they evolve will create some sort of machine intelligence and that those machine intelligences will end up being quite similar regardless of the lifeforms that created them. Those are the most likely 1st forms of contact - the alien's machines rather than the aliens themselves.TX.
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