BBC science fail?
Discussion
jmorgan said:
Are there not scientific institutions after pre nuclear steel? They go for ship wrecks etc. for instrument making?
Something tickles that memory cell on this.
Yep - the scuttled German fleet in Scapa Flow is a major source:.Something tickles that memory cell on this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
ash73 said:
There isn't any kinda about it, that guy is just confusing the issue. When he says:"But, if you now think that two cars running into each other at 50 mph each is the same as one car running into a concrete wall at 50 mph, then you’ve got that wrong. Because, when in the end, you’ve got two recked cars not one, and the energy used to wreck each of those cars as per a 50 mph collision is twice the energy it would have taken to wreck one of them."
He is trying to confuse the fact that taking one of the cars in isolation is still the same as that car hitting a concrete wall. If you consider the two cars then it is also the same as having two cars hitting a concrete wall separately. In all cases the effective result when considering one car is the same as that car hitting a concrete wall at 50mph. This works if one of the cars is stationary and the other is travelling at 100mph too.
Edited by Jabbah on Thursday 29th September 11:52
Because the myth busted is about the effects on a single car in either situation. Essentially - "Is the effect on a car colliding with a concrete wall at 50mph the same as the effect on on car doing 50 mph colliding with another car doing 50mph in the opposite direction?" And the answer is yes, no "kinda" about it. It seems he is being pedantic about taking the whole system into account, which to most people will be confusing when he again claims it is like a 100mph collision. If he'd have followed up with "Two cars hitting each other is equivalent to two cars hitting a concrete wall" then he might have been clearer. He actually made up a new statement that was never given in the first place:
"...two cars running into each other at 50 mph each is the same as one car running into a concrete wall at 50 mph..."
This was never claimed or implied yet he takes that idea and gives the impression that it was Mythbusters fault.
"...two cars running into each other at 50 mph each is the same as one car running into a concrete wall at 50 mph..."
This was never claimed or implied yet he takes that idea and gives the impression that it was Mythbusters fault.
ninja-lewis said:
Yep - the scuttled German fleet in Scapa Flow is a major source:.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
Back in the 80's I worked at AWE Aldermaston and as you may expect we had a pretty rigorous personal monitoring regime. Part of that was an occasional visit to the Whole Body Monitor. This entailed snoozing for what seemed like an age with a big sodium iodide detector on each side of your chest to see if you had anything undesirable in your lungs. As the amounts they were looking for were (hopefully) close to zero, background radiation was a real problem. To help fix this the monitoring took place in a room constructed out of thick steel. Anything made after the first atmospheric atom bomb test was no good due to the contamination so the steel came from an old RN ship, HMS Lion IIRC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
Cool story bro and somewhat off topic.
Edited by rovermorris999 on Thursday 6th October 20:39
Yes, the Americans have similar facilities made from pre-nuclear steel. The contamination comes from the air, which is blown though in large quantities during the steel making process. The days of open air nuclear testing have thankfully long gone, so radiation in the air is far lower (one thirtieth) than at it's peak in 1963. Steel from mined ore and the use of more sensitive sensors means that it's really a non-issue these days apparently.
I visited Scapa Flow a few years ago. You can still see a small oil slick marking the wreck of the battleship HMS Royal Oak. She was torpedoed at anchor in October 1939 by a U-boat that had managed to sneak in past the block ships that were supposed to restrict access to the main harbour. 833 men died as a result of the attack and she's now a war grave.
As for the WW1 German fleet, there were 74 German warships in Scapa Flow and 52 of them tried to scuttle or beach themselves. Of those 52, 45 were salvaged in the years soon after WW1. The ones that had beached were relatively easy to recover. The ships were either broken up for scrap, or distributed to some of our wartime allies (Americans, French & Japanese) to dispose of as they saw fit. Several were used as target practice and sent to the bottom permanently.
The 7 ships still down there are:
4 Cruisers: Brummer, Cöln, Dresden, Karlsruhe
3 Battleships: Markgraf, Kronprinz Wilhelm, König
The 3 battleships were all sister ships in the König class and were sunk in deeper water than the others. This made it more costly to salvage, so they were left where they were. Most of the low-background steel was taken from these three ships.
I visited Scapa Flow a few years ago. You can still see a small oil slick marking the wreck of the battleship HMS Royal Oak. She was torpedoed at anchor in October 1939 by a U-boat that had managed to sneak in past the block ships that were supposed to restrict access to the main harbour. 833 men died as a result of the attack and she's now a war grave.
As for the WW1 German fleet, there were 74 German warships in Scapa Flow and 52 of them tried to scuttle or beach themselves. Of those 52, 45 were salvaged in the years soon after WW1. The ones that had beached were relatively easy to recover. The ships were either broken up for scrap, or distributed to some of our wartime allies (Americans, French & Japanese) to dispose of as they saw fit. Several were used as target practice and sent to the bottom permanently.
The 7 ships still down there are:
4 Cruisers: Brummer, Cöln, Dresden, Karlsruhe
3 Battleships: Markgraf, Kronprinz Wilhelm, König
The 3 battleships were all sister ships in the König class and were sunk in deeper water than the others. This made it more costly to salvage, so they were left where they were. Most of the low-background steel was taken from these three ships.
V8LM said:
Always thought this was a good website - http://www.scapaflowwrecks.com/wrecks/konig/3d/
That's excellent. Thanks.ninja-lewis said:
Yep - the scuttled German fleet in Scapa Flow is a major source:.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
Interesting, never come across that before.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
How come the steel isn't contaminated by re-smelting? Or is it only ever reworked by machining?
rovermorris999 said:
Back in the 80's I worked at AWE Aldermaston and as you may expect we had a pretty rigorous personal monitoring regime. Part of that was an occasional visit to the Whole Body Monitor. This entailed snoozing for what seemed like an age with a big sodium iodide detector on each side of your chest to see if you had anything undesirable in your lungs. As the amounts they were looking for were (hopefully) close to zero, background radiation was a real problem. To help fix this the monitoring took place in a room constructed out of thick steel. Anything made after the first atmospheric atom bomb test was no good due to the contamination so the steel came from an old RN ship, HMS Lion IIRC.
Cool story bro and somewhat off topic.
Place I used to work has one too, also from an old RN ship but I can't remember the name of it! We (current employer) had a couple too, but they were dismantled couple of years ago and we had to move from the building they were in and we couldn't justify relocation costs as they are not in use enough.Cool story bro and somewhat off topic.
Edited by rovermorris999 on Thursday 6th October 20:39
my variation of the 'cool story bro' is undergoing a measurement in 3 of these facilities in 3 countries in 3 weeks - but that is drifting WAY off topic!
Derek Smith said:
I was watching Tomorrow's World with my young lad and the presenter said that if a car going at 70mph collided head on with an identical car also going at 70mph it would be damaged as much as if it had collided with a concrete support to a bridge while going at 140mph.
I said that it was wrong but my lad, 9 or so, was not convinced, TV trumping all. I chatted to him but it was clear that whilst he understood what I was saying, the fact that the TV said it must mean I had it wrong.
I wrote to TW explaining the situation and asking them to confirm they got it wrong.
I got a letter back within a week or so. It merely mentioned that I was right and went on to suggest that my lad not to believe everything on TV, even if a scientist said it as they might have made a mistake or, more exciting, is that the theory they based it on might have been proved wrong. It was a fabulous letter.
Enclosed was a sealed envelope addressed to my lad. I gave it to him, his first letter. He opened it and it explained the physics in easily understood terms.
They took a lot of time over it. I was impressed.
What a great story I said that it was wrong but my lad, 9 or so, was not convinced, TV trumping all. I chatted to him but it was clear that whilst he understood what I was saying, the fact that the TV said it must mean I had it wrong.
I wrote to TW explaining the situation and asking them to confirm they got it wrong.
I got a letter back within a week or so. It merely mentioned that I was right and went on to suggest that my lad not to believe everything on TV, even if a scientist said it as they might have made a mistake or, more exciting, is that the theory they based it on might have been proved wrong. It was a fabulous letter.
Enclosed was a sealed envelope addressed to my lad. I gave it to him, his first letter. He opened it and it explained the physics in easily understood terms.
They took a lot of time over it. I was impressed.
llewop said:
rovermorris999 said:
Back in the 80's I worked at AWE Aldermaston and as you may expect we had a pretty rigorous personal monitoring regime. Part of that was an occasional visit to the Whole Body Monitor. This entailed snoozing for what seemed like an age with a big sodium iodide detector on each side of your chest to see if you had anything undesirable in your lungs. As the amounts they were looking for were (hopefully) close to zero, background radiation was a real problem. To help fix this the monitoring took place in a room constructed out of thick steel. Anything made after the first atmospheric atom bomb test was no good due to the contamination so the steel came from an old RN ship, HMS Lion IIRC.
Cool story bro and somewhat off topic.
Place I used to work has one too, also from an old RN ship but I can't remember the name of it! We (current employer) had a couple too, but they were dismantled couple of years ago and we had to move from the building they were in and we couldn't justify relocation costs as they are not in use enough.Cool story bro and somewhat off topic.
Edited by rovermorris999 on Thursday 6th October 20:39
my variation of the 'cool story bro' is undergoing a measurement in 3 of these facilities in 3 countries in 3 weeks - but that is drifting WAY off topic!
RobM77 said:
llewop said:
rovermorris999 said:
Back in the 80's I worked at AWE Aldermaston and as you may expect we had a pretty rigorous personal monitoring regime. Part of that was an occasional visit to the Whole Body Monitor. This entailed snoozing for what seemed like an age with a big sodium iodide detector on each side of your chest to see if you had anything undesirable in your lungs. As the amounts they were looking for were (hopefully) close to zero, background radiation was a real problem. To help fix this the monitoring took place in a room constructed out of thick steel. Anything made after the first atmospheric atom bomb test was no good due to the contamination so the steel came from an old RN ship, HMS Lion IIRC.
Cool story bro and somewhat off topic.
Place I used to work has one too, also from an old RN ship but I can't remember the name of it! We (current employer) had a couple too, but they were dismantled couple of years ago and we had to move from the building they were in and we couldn't justify relocation costs as they are not in use enough.Cool story bro and somewhat off topic.
Edited by rovermorris999 on Thursday 6th October 20:39
my variation of the 'cool story bro' is undergoing a measurement in 3 of these facilities in 3 countries in 3 weeks - but that is drifting WAY off topic!
It's really quite upsetting when you finish a shift, go through the scanners and the clipboard raises an alarm so gets taken away as contaminated waste with all your notes on it.
Gassing Station | Science! | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff