ExoMars and Schiaparelli

ExoMars and Schiaparelli

Author
Discussion

Eric Mc

122,018 posts

265 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
From ESA's website -

"The detailed telemetry recorded by the Trace Gas Orbiter was needed to better understand the situation. At the same time as Schiaparelli's descent, the orbiter was performing a crucial 'Mars Orbit Insertion' manoeuvre – which it completed successfully. This important data were recorded from Schiaparelli and beamed back to Earth in the early hours of Thursday morning.
The data have been partially analysed and confirm that the entry and descent stages occurred as expected, with events diverging from what was expected after the ejection of the back heat shield and parachute. This ejection itself appears to have occurred earlier than expected, but analysis is not yet complete".

MartG

Original Poster:

20,676 posts

204 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Perhaps at some point the MRO will be be able to image the impact site to see if it hit in one piece or broke up/exploded in flight

Gandahar

9,600 posts

128 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
I'm wondering how much intensive testing ESA have been doing on their landers. I get the feeling it just hasn't been as rigorous as the testing NASA have done on theirs.
I get that feeling as well Eric. My optimism from yesterday unfounded.

Even the representation of the landing sequence from ESA looks rather Micky Mouse compared to ones from NASA

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3767...



annodomini2

6,861 posts

251 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
I'd put money on it going faster than predicted, chute effectively deployed too late and subsequently released too early, thrusters only firing for a short period due to being closer to the ground and smack.

All theory of course.

Simpo Two

85,420 posts

265 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
As for copying Viking - this lander was not intended to emulate Viking. It was a "proof of technology" device which would only do very limited science.
It proved the technology doesn't work. Why not use technology that DOES work, then you can get on with doing something useful and progressive - like looking for life. I'm getting tired of all these 'hi-tech' software-packed projects that fail because somebody forgot to check something, or divided by 10 instead of 100, or used km instead of miles. It's frankly pathetic.

Eric Mc

122,018 posts

265 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
You seem to think that getting to land something on Mars is easy. It's not. The fact that the Vikings worked 40 years ago was a combination of luck and money. The Vikings cost billions back in the early to mid 1970s. Something like Exo Mars is a shoestring operation in comparison. All that testing costs a lot. I think ESA has just underestimated how hard this stuff is.

Their orbiters, on the other hand, work quite well.

Toaster

2,939 posts

193 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
I think ESA has just underestimated how hard this stuff is.
.........OMG! you need to email the space engineers and scientists at ESA and let them know

Eric Mc

122,018 posts

265 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Toaster said:
.........OMG! you need to email the space engineers and scientists at ESA and let them know
Thank you for your invaluable contribution.

Simpo Two

85,420 posts

265 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
You seem to think that getting to land something on Mars is easy. It's not. The fact that the Vikings worked 40 years ago was a combination of luck and money. The Vikings cost billions back in the early to mid 1970s. Something like Exo Mars is a shoestring operation in comparison.
1970s tech must cost pennies now, pick it up on eBay... No point reinventing the wheel, especially if its replacement is square and breaks easily. But the sad fact is that a generation ago we could do these things, and now we can't. We had the technology but we lost it. Maybe we need a Mars app.

Toaster

2,939 posts

193 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Thank you for your invaluable contribution.
My pleasure you seem to have the answer, you shared it with us so why not ESA?

Eric Mc

122,018 posts

265 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Yes we can do those things. Since the two Vikings landed in 1976, we've had 6 additional successful landers/rovers, one static (and five rovers) -

1997 - Pathfinder/Sojourner
2004 - Spirit
2004 - Opportunity (still operating)
2008 - Mars Phoenix Lander
2012 - Curiosity (still operating)

What is noteworthy is that all the successes have been from NASA. The other attempts at landing have been made by the Soviets/Russians and the ESA - and they have all failed.

NASA must be doing something right that the others aren't.

Edited by Eric Mc on Thursday 20th October 16:20

Toaster

2,939 posts

193 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
1970s tech must cost pennies now, pick it up on eBay... No point reinventing the wheel, especially if its replacement is square and breaks easily. But the sad fact is that a generation ago we could do these things, and now we can't. We had the technology but we lost it. Maybe we need a Mars app.
ESA did a great job with the Rosetta mission and with Mars it seems around 50% of the missions fail so in someways its shouldn't be a surprise when a landing goes squiffy. Hopefully they will learn what happened and the next mission works.

Eric Mc

122,018 posts

265 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Toaster said:
My pleasure you seem to have the answer, you shared it with us so why not ESA?
Why not indeed. I'm sure there are some ESA folk who read PH.

At the same time, I'm trying to work out what your comment has to do with our chat here.

Toaster

2,939 posts

193 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Why not indeed. I'm sure there are some ESA folk who read PH.At the same time, I'm trying to work out what your comment has to do with our chat here.
I respond to your comment on this thread I am sure thats how chat works.

Anyway given the 50/50 nature of a successful landing ESA has done a good job, it would be great to see if the lander does wake up or if a photo of the landing site can be obtained. I am sure the team will work long and hard interpreting the Data they have which will hopefully provide more information for successful future missions.

Eric Mc

122,018 posts

265 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Absolutely they will.

Although Rosetta was overall a very suucessful mission, the one bit that did NOT work the way it should was the Philae lander ( I can see a pattern here). Again, elements of the landing sequence did not do what they were supposed to do

The one outstanding success they have had with a lander was Huygens on Titan.

annodomini2

6,861 posts

251 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Yes we can do those things. Since the two Vikings landed in 1976, we've had 6 additional successful landers/rovers, one static (and five rovers) -

1997 - Pathfinder/Sojourner
2004 - Spirit
2004 - Opportunity (still operating)
2008 - Mars Phoenix Lander
2012 - Curiosity (still operating)

What is noteworthy is that all the successes have been from NASA. The other attempts at landing have been made by the Soviets/Russians and the ESA - and they have all failed.

NASA must be doing something right that the others aren't.

Edited by Eric Mc on Thursday 20th October 16:20
Beagle 2 landed successfully, but failed to deploy it's solar panels correctly blocking it's antenna



Eric Mc

122,018 posts

265 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
So it failed because something didn't work right as part of the landing sequence.

When they try to get stuff down onto the surface of planetary bodies they have problems. At the moment it stands at one success and three failures.

Maybe they should practice with our moon - like NASA did with their Surveyor series in the 60s.

Toaster

2,939 posts

193 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Absolutely they will.

Although Rosetta was overall a very suucessful mission, the one bit that did NOT work the way it should was the Philae lander ( I can see a pattern here). Again, elements of the landing sequence did not do what they were supposed to do .
Not sure its a pattern Eric Philea did land and bounced, it was the anchor that didn't hold the craft. Schiaparelli wasn't relying on an anchor and Philea send pictures and Data back so in may ways mission accomplished

Toaster

2,939 posts

193 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
ash73 said:
...and crashed.= successful failure.
Harsh considering the mission was a success

MartG

Original Poster:

20,676 posts

204 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
quotequote all
Is it time to start the 'NASA destroyed it to cover up aliens' conspiracy theory yet ? jester