Colonisation and novel disease transmission

[ChevronB19]

According both to general knowledge, and more specifically an episode of ‘In our time’ I was listening to, the colonisation of the americas by the Europeans wiped out a huge proportion of the native population (apparently up to 90-95%), as the native population had never been exposed to European diseases.

Why didn’t it work in reverse? Ok, to begin with, there were only a few conquistadors from memory, but surely some were exposed to diseases from the americas and subsequently returned home, (potentially) introducing those diseases to Europe?

[GT03ROB]

I'm sure I read somewhere that syphillis was an american disease that spread to europe.

[ZedLeg]

As far as I understand it, health and cleanliness levels were much higher in American tribes than in the invading Europeans. Who even discounting the fact they'd been at sea for months were filthy.

European people had some weird ideas about what made good personal hygiene

[Bill]

I suspect that European's immune systems were so used to dealing with all sorts of bugs due poor hygiene and cramped living conditions that they'd have shrugged off anything the native people had.

[Simpo Two]

Early European explorers of Africa were at significant risk of catching a tropical disease and dying from it.

I don't know why the Aztecs - or was it Incas? - were hit so badly; perhaps just bad luck on the immune system front, or living conditions/culture that allowed it to spread.

I'm sure that if Britain had wiped out 95% of India's population we'd never hear the last of it.

[SpudLink]

The populations of Europe and Asia were not completely isolated from each other in the same way. Trade routes existed for so long that both populations were probably exposed to each other’s diseases.

[bigandclever]

I recall the populations decreased by so much and so quickly that the climate cooled down. Bit of an extreme way to combat global warming but it's an option.

[SpudLink]

bigandclever said:

I recall the populations decreased by so much and so quickly that the climate cooled down. Bit of an extreme way to combat global warming but it's an option.

So, what your saying is Thanos' 50% population reduction didn't go far enough?

[Beati Dogu]

The WEF/UN globalists aim to get the world population down to ~500 million.

Not including them of course.

[popeyewhite]

SpudLink said:

The populations of Europe and Asia were not completely isolated from each other in the same way. Trade routes existed for so long that both populations were probably exposed to each other’s diseases.

Moreover according to the Clovis Theory the first settlers in North America came over the land bridge from Siberia. If this was the case it's very likely they would have encountered Europeans and their diseases on the trade routes you mention.

[Simpo Two]

SpudLink said:

The populations of Europe and Asia were not completely isolated from each other in the same way. Trade routes existed for so long that both populations were probably exposed to each other’s diseases.

True, but the OP was asking why the Spanish didn't bring back a South American germ that then wiped out 95% of Europe. Perhaps luck?

[SpudLink]

Simpo Two said:

SpudLink said:

The populations of Europe and Asia were not completely isolated from each other in the same way. Trade routes existed for so long that both populations were probably exposed to each other’s diseases.

True, but the OP was asking why the Spanish didn't bring back a South American germ that then wiped out 95% of Europe. Perhaps luck?

Sorry, I was replying to the comment about the colonisation of India not having the same effect.

[popeyewhite]

Simpo Two said:

True, but the OP was asking why the Spanish didn't bring back a South American germ that then wiped out 95% of Europe. Perhaps luck?

Smallpox? But it didn't kill as many because Europeans had much more robust immune systems having lived in filthy cities and in close proximity to animals. The situation is the same now when Westerners visit remote tribes in the Amazon or Congo. I was watching Simon Reeve last night and he wore a mask so not to pass anything on to a bonobo monkey. (I know, I know masks don't work).

[Wayoftheflower]

Beati Dogu said:

The WEF/UN globalists aim to get the world population down to ~500 million.

What about the 5g enabled lizard people, are they safe?

[Simpo Two]

SpudLink said:

Sorry, I was replying to the comment about the colonisation of India not having the same effect.

Aha, gottit

popeyewhite said:

I was watching Simon Reeve last night and he wore a mask so not to pass anything on to a bonobo monkey. (I know, I know masks don't work).

I'm not keen on his programmes; wherever he goes he always manages to find something negative about it.

[Chris Type R]

GT03ROB said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that syphillis was an american disease that spread to europe.

I watched something about this not long ago, where evidence is being found to dispute that theory - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_syphilis "Discoveries in paleopathology". I'm not sure how strong the case is though.

[InitialDave]

ChevronB19 said:

Why didn’t it work in reverse? Ok, to begin with, there were only a few conquistadors from memory, but surely some were exposed to diseases from the americas and subsequently returned home, (potentially) introducing those diseases to Europe?

I'm being quite simplistic here, but my initial thought would be if someone travels to where you are, and gives you a really nasty lurgy, you and other members of the local population would cop it if you don't have resistance. The new arrival does have resistance, so can merrily continue travelling around infecting more of you.

Now, you may give them a really nasty lurgy, which if they lack resistance, could cause them to cop it instead, but if they do, they're not in a position to return home and spread it further.

So I would assume that anyone in a fit state to actually return home has a good chance of only having been exposed to stuff that isn't as effective at bumping them off, which logically would be mirrored in the resistance the people back home would have.

[DodgyGeezer]

InitialDave said:

I'm being quite simplistic here, but my initial thought would be if someone travels to where you are, and gives you a really nasty lurgy, you and other members of the local population would cop it if you don't have resistance. The new arrival does have resistance, so can merrily continue travelling around infecting more of you.

Now, you may give them a really nasty lurgy, which if they lack resistance, could cause them to cop it instead, but if they do, they're not in a position to return home and spread it further.

So I would assume that anyone in a fit state to actually return home has a good chance of only having been exposed to stuff that isn't as effective at bumping them off, which logically would be mirrored in the resistance the people back home would have.

Was my first thought - anything sufficiently nasty would either kill you PDQ or, possibly, make you so sick that your colleagues wouldn't chuck you on the boat to begin with. Distance, in this case, may have saved us from a lot of nasty stuff?

[GT03ROB]

DodgyGeezer said:

Was my first thought - anything sufficiently nasty would either kill you PDQ or, possibly, make you so sick that your colleagues wouldn't chuck you on the boat to begin with. Distance, in this case, may have saved us from a lot of nasty stuff?

There's probably a lot in this.

Carrying a disease from europe where a disease may be prevalent, means you have some resistance to it. So the host survives the journey. When at the destination anything you contract thats nasty is likely to kill you before you have a chance to take it back. If the North American natives had been travelling wholesale to europe the story may have been different..

[Simpo Two]

DodgyGeezer said:

Distance, in this case, may have saved us from a lot of nasty stuff?

Absolutely - look at how global travel spread Covid - further and massively faster than it would ever have been otherwise. In fact, if it had happened 100+ years ago, it might never have left China.

The idea that Spaniards contracting a disease died before they got home, thereby ending the infection, is sound and almost certainly happened. Drake took an army across Panama and lost many men. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake%27s_Assault_on...