Novice needs advice about possible project.
Discussion
Dear fellow forumers,
Parrot here. First post from a middle aged father looking to get an inspiring project to sink my teeth into.
My late father was an able engineer and restored classic cars and I remember it well from my early childhood. I went into a different direction in life and never really got to learn about mechanics.
I have been thinking of late about creating something rather special. I'd like to get a British marque from the fifties, something like an old Austin, but completely 'modernise' the mechanical side of it to make it a daily driver that could do long distances on a fairly regularly basis (or 200/300 miles a week). I'd also like to add hot rod elements.
My question to the forum is: what could/would you do to bring say an old original up to modern standards?
When you air your thoughts, I'd be most grateful for your thoughts on price too.
thanks in advance,
Parrot
Parrot here. First post from a middle aged father looking to get an inspiring project to sink my teeth into.
My late father was an able engineer and restored classic cars and I remember it well from my early childhood. I went into a different direction in life and never really got to learn about mechanics.
I have been thinking of late about creating something rather special. I'd like to get a British marque from the fifties, something like an old Austin, but completely 'modernise' the mechanical side of it to make it a daily driver that could do long distances on a fairly regularly basis (or 200/300 miles a week). I'd also like to add hot rod elements.
My question to the forum is: what could/would you do to bring say an old original up to modern standards?
When you air your thoughts, I'd be most grateful for your thoughts on price too.
thanks in advance,
Parrot
I suspect you will get as many opinions as replies on a question/questions like that.
My answer is not specific but generic, I think you will find YOUR answer for yourself.
I would be looking for a classic shape/car that you like and is easy to get bodywork bits for.
I would then find the closest dimensionally identical modern car that fulfils the rest of the brief, park them up next to each other & get out the welding gear, taking the bits that you want to swap onto the classic.
It is one of those things that sounds easy when you say it quickly.
My answer is not specific but generic, I think you will find YOUR answer for yourself.
I would be looking for a classic shape/car that you like and is easy to get bodywork bits for.
I would then find the closest dimensionally identical modern car that fulfils the rest of the brief, park them up next to each other & get out the welding gear, taking the bits that you want to swap onto the classic.
It is one of those things that sounds easy when you say it quickly.
There's modern and then there's modern. Transplanting a powertrain from a car made 20+ years ago is going to be much, much easier than a current one.
Your approach will depend on what classic you start with, it'll dictate what size and weight of drivetrain might be appropriate. Physically fitting the engine and gearbox is the easy bit, you'll have to find a rear axle which'll fit and provide a usable ratio... You'll probably end up with much of the modern car's wiring loom, the complicated bit being the instrumentation where you'll likely have to ditch the old period clocks etc. Depending on the drivetrain you choose you're going to need to upgrade the front brakes and maybe even fit servo assistance. Assuming your new powertrain will be fuel injected you're going to need to modify or change the fuel tank and pipes... Whatever remains of the original car will need to be in tiptop condition to hopefully work reliably.
Your approach will depend on what classic you start with, it'll dictate what size and weight of drivetrain might be appropriate. Physically fitting the engine and gearbox is the easy bit, you'll have to find a rear axle which'll fit and provide a usable ratio... You'll probably end up with much of the modern car's wiring loom, the complicated bit being the instrumentation where you'll likely have to ditch the old period clocks etc. Depending on the drivetrain you choose you're going to need to upgrade the front brakes and maybe even fit servo assistance. Assuming your new powertrain will be fuel injected you're going to need to modify or change the fuel tank and pipes... Whatever remains of the original car will need to be in tiptop condition to hopefully work reliably.
Something relatively new but simple to backwards engineer into a classic car, like a Ford Zetec engine. 130bhp out of the box, can be run on carbs for simplicity, will bolt to a type 9 gearbox for RWD applications too. Easy to get hold of and cheap too.
If you want more power, a Duratec engine from an St170 + Throttle bodies, but then you're spending more money.
If you want more power, a Duratec engine from an St170 + Throttle bodies, but then you're spending more money.
Let's take an Austin a125 sheerline. What parts would members advise replacing in order to get a reasonably modern running gear?
I'm concious that many parts also are hard to find now. I think it makes sense to install parts that won't take forever to find.
Does any one know of any threads/places/ sites that would offer advice relating to this?
I'm concious that many parts also are hard to find now. I think it makes sense to install parts that won't take forever to find.
Does any one know of any threads/places/ sites that would offer advice relating to this?
Let's take an Austin a125 sheerline. What parts would members advise replacing in order to get a reasonably modern running gear?
I'm concious that many parts also are hard to find now. I think it makes sense to install parts that won't take forever to find.
Does any one know of any threads/places/ sites that would offer advice relating to this?
I'm concious that many parts also are hard to find now. I think it makes sense to install parts that won't take forever to find.
Does any one know of any threads/places/ sites that would offer advice relating to this?
It really depends on what you're expecting out of it. Some people are content just fitting an electronic distributor and regularly servicing and fettling the rest... If you want modern reliability you are not going to achieve it with early 50s parts. You're basically going to end up changing everything- and yes, it's probably going to be expensive.
Butter Face said:
If you want more power, a Duratec engine from an St170 + Throttle bodies, but then you're spending more money.
Just to be pedantic, this is PH after all. The ST170 isn't a duratec. It Is a rebadged zetec. Good engines though!Be very careful if you have to do anything with the chassis. Any chassis modifications are supposed to require an IVA test. Most just say nothing and hope they never get found out.
Zetec engines are a good basis to modernise an older car. Same bolt pattern to older ford engines(pinto, Xflow etc) and easy fitment to a 5 speed type 9 box. This combination is tough as old boots and plentiful. Very tenable too if you wanted to go that route.
The zetec is very simple for a modernish Efi engine and they are very robust. 200k if looked after is no problem at all.
Rather an odd choice for modernisation and regular use, but whatever; there are several choices for replacement modern straight sixes, Jag AJ6/16 would be my first port of call, then Mercs of various flavours and there are a few japanese 6s that might suit although rarer to find and get spares for. For simplicity it would seem sensible to retain whatever gearbox they come with, although adapting for column shift may be a challenge. Unless you want total transmogrification I'd restrict running gear mods to telescopic dampers and disc brakes at the front. By far the biggest problem with old busses like these is rust, the cost of interior renovation and the nonexistence of replacement body panels, engines etc are, even 50+ years on, less of a problem, many bits were shared with BMC commercials and military vehicles.
HustleRussell said:
There's modern and then there's modern. Transplanting a powertrain from a car made 20+ years ago is going to be much, much easier than a current one.
Your approach will depend on what classic you start with, it'll dictate what size and weight of drivetrain might be appropriate. Physically fitting the engine and gearbox is the easy bit, you'll have to find a rear axle which'll fit and provide a usable ratio... You'll probably end up with much of the modern car's wiring loom, the complicated bit being the instrumentation where you'll likely have to ditch the old period clocks etc. Depending on the drivetrain you choose you're going to need to upgrade the front brakes and maybe even fit servo assistance. Assuming your new powertrain will be fuel injected you're going to need to modify or change the fuel tank and pipes... Whatever remains of the original car will need to be in tiptop condition to hopefully work reliably.
Thanks for this very comprehensive reply. As explained, I'm a novice.. So translating the last paragraph "Whatever remains of the original car will need to be in tiptop condition to hopefully work reliably" what pieces of the original mechanics are you referring too which wil have to work reliably?Your approach will depend on what classic you start with, it'll dictate what size and weight of drivetrain might be appropriate. Physically fitting the engine and gearbox is the easy bit, you'll have to find a rear axle which'll fit and provide a usable ratio... You'll probably end up with much of the modern car's wiring loom, the complicated bit being the instrumentation where you'll likely have to ditch the old period clocks etc. Depending on the drivetrain you choose you're going to need to upgrade the front brakes and maybe even fit servo assistance. Assuming your new powertrain will be fuel injected you're going to need to modify or change the fuel tank and pipes... Whatever remains of the original car will need to be in tiptop condition to hopefully work reliably.
You also mention about instrumentation and the wiring loom. Do any members know if a successful transference of new wiring on a custom panel to an old British marque?
I don't know much about the Austin but...
For reliability these days you want 12v negative earth electrics and an alternator. I think this will render pretty much all of the Austin's electrical system paperweight.
How you go forward from there depends on your choice of donor drivetrain.
From around the late 90s pretty much everything went to a CAN BUS electronic system and this is where my functional understanding of automotive electronics stops.
Suffice to say if you want to transplant CAN BUS into the Austin you'd need to retain pretty much all of the donor vehicle's electronic components and I don't know how easily you could connect modular instruments and dials into that.
Therefore I'd default to a non- CAN BUS donor.
As for the parts carried over from the Austin... Well you need the chassis and body to be in exceptionally good condition as pressing a 70 year old car into 200-300 mile weekly service is going to encourage it to fall apart. Any swivels, joints, hangers, trunnions, bushes, springs, bearings etc are going to be tip top and properly maintained. Even things like door hinges and windscreen wiper mechanisms are going to need to be in good nick and well screwed down.
What you're expecting of such an old car is a seriously tall order... You'd be re-engineering pretty much everything. The resulting car is still going to need more care and maintenance than a modern car. Getting it approved for use of the road may be problematic. Even if you do all of this yourself this is a tens of thousands of pounds project.
For reliability these days you want 12v negative earth electrics and an alternator. I think this will render pretty much all of the Austin's electrical system paperweight.
How you go forward from there depends on your choice of donor drivetrain.
From around the late 90s pretty much everything went to a CAN BUS electronic system and this is where my functional understanding of automotive electronics stops.
Suffice to say if you want to transplant CAN BUS into the Austin you'd need to retain pretty much all of the donor vehicle's electronic components and I don't know how easily you could connect modular instruments and dials into that.
Therefore I'd default to a non- CAN BUS donor.
As for the parts carried over from the Austin... Well you need the chassis and body to be in exceptionally good condition as pressing a 70 year old car into 200-300 mile weekly service is going to encourage it to fall apart. Any swivels, joints, hangers, trunnions, bushes, springs, bearings etc are going to be tip top and properly maintained. Even things like door hinges and windscreen wiper mechanisms are going to need to be in good nick and well screwed down.
What you're expecting of such an old car is a seriously tall order... You'd be re-engineering pretty much everything. The resulting car is still going to need more care and maintenance than a modern car. Getting it approved for use of the road may be problematic. Even if you do all of this yourself this is a tens of thousands of pounds project.
Yes it's definately a very detailed and expensive thing to do, however, if I design this the right way, with the right parts in place, I end up showcasing the best of the old school with the best of the new school and no car tax nor mot and a relatively cheap car insurance with a car that should hold value and will forever get admiration.... If it's done right.....
I've never been one for the easy road, and now I feel officially obliged to do it
Aside from EBay, what publications are good for trying to find older project cars?
I've never been one for the easy road, and now I feel officially obliged to do it
Aside from EBay, what publications are good for trying to find older project cars?
Yes it's definately a very detailed and expensive thing to do, however, if I design this the right way, with the right parts in place, I end up showcasing the best of the old school with the best of the new school and no car tax nor mot and a relatively cheap car insurance with a car that should hold value and will forever get admiration.... If it's done right.....
I've never been one for the easy road, and now I feel officially obliged to do it
Aside from EBay, what publications are good for trying to find older project cars?
I've never been one for the easy road, and now I feel officially obliged to do it
Aside from EBay, what publications are good for trying to find older project cars?
Parrotface said:
Yes it's definately a very detailed and expensive thing to do, however, if I design this the right way, with the right parts in place, I end up showcasing the best of the old school with the best of the new school and no car tax nor mot and a relatively cheap car insurance with a car that should hold value and will forever get admiration.... If it's done right.....
I've never been one for the easy road, and now I feel officially obliged to do it
Aside from EBay, what publications are good for trying to find older project cars?
Sheerlines aren't the best of anything; they were a marketing exercise by BMC to soak up the funeral director/municipal mayor's car market by cobbling together a chassis and drivetrain from lorry parts and shipping it to newly purchased Van Den Plas to keep them busy building bodies. Contemporary offerings from Jaguar, Daimler, Bentley and Armstrong Siddeley were better engineered and weren't built from bits of goods vehicles.I've never been one for the easy road, and now I feel officially obliged to do it
Aside from EBay, what publications are good for trying to find older project cars?
Other sources of grotty old cars are the forums Autos
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