Feeling brave, front discs and pads

[one eyed mick]

thebraketester said:

Copper grease isn't the best. See my previous post.

Edited by thebraketester on Saturday 30th July 07:43

WHY? please expand on this ,I have used it for at least 30 years No ill effects [ unless you put it on the wrong side of the pads!!!

[thebraketester]

Buy some and try it. You won't use copper skip again.

It's way thicker than copper and much cleaner to use.

[S0 What]

Again REAR pads comes with new bolts if req, i did an 05 astra rear pads yesterday (i do a lot of them) and they had 4 new bolts with threadlock, most do, more do than dont IME, fronts very rarely come with bolts (cant actually think of any at the mo that do TBH)
Fronts the main issue will be the screw holding the discs on (if they have them?), also did 4 discs and pads on a honda CRV, the longest job was undoing the screws in the front discs cleanly (IE no drilling the buggers out), big old crosshead screw driver in them and smack with a hammer usually frees the threads off but this one needed heat as well

[freddytin]

Advice from Mintex.

5. Greasing the guide surfaces of the caliper bracket

Grease the cleaned guide surfaces of the
caliper bracket with a non-conductive, heat-resistant and solids- free (non-metallic) agent.

Attention Do not use copper paste!


Yes their Ceratec lube is recommended as it is compatible with ABS and brake wear sensors ..Unlike Copper based grease

HTH

[Mr2Mike]

freddytin said:

Yes their Ceratec lube is recommended as it is compatible with ABS and brake wear sensors ..Unlike Copper based grease

HTH

What a load of crap. ABS sensors are sealed inductive sensors, copper grease will have no effect whatsoever on them even in quite unrealistic quantities. Brake wear sensors are just a lump of copper embedded into the pad, when it makes contact with the disk a light illuminates on the dash.

If you could explain 1) why correctly applied copper grease would be anywhere near the pad sensor some 20,000-30,000 miles after fitting the pads and 2) how it would interfere with it's operation, then I'd be interested to know.

[freddytin]

Mr2Mike said:

What a load of crap. ABS sensors are sealed inductive sensors, copper grease will have no effect whatsoever on them even in quite unrealistic quantities. Brake wear sensors are just a lump of copper embedded into the pad, when it makes contact with the disk a light illuminates on the dash.

If you could explain 1) why correctly applied copper grease would be anywhere near the pad sensor some 20,000-30,000 miles after fitting the pads and 2) how it would interfere with it's operation, then I'd be interested to know.

Hey I'm only passing on advice from Mintex.

I myself have used copper grease , graphite grease and many other specialist brake related products over the years with no adverse effects.
However I have seen over use / contamination by mucky , sloppy , rushed technicians causing issues . Personally I don't believe the need for added lube in the majority of cases on modern vehicles with coated pads and stainless shims being the norm.
I believe dirt and corrosion are the main reasons pads and disks will suffer.
I'd be interested to know what the manufacturers use on assembly ? ...You certainly do not see evidence of copper grease on many of the new vehicles coming in for replacement pads . A genuine question , if anyone has the answer ?

[fooby]

Remember to have some brake cleaner to clean off the protectant coating on the disks, I've made the mistake of leaving it on before... Bit scary when you go for the first drive

I've always used copper grease on the mating area between the hub and the disk, but these guys probably know more than me. Whatever you use, don't overdo it. A little goes a long way.

[thebraketester]

Aluminium anti seize is good for the hubs to stop the discs sticking... again copper will work but alu. is cleaner.

[darreni]

Ate plastilube is also great for pads, calipers & disc/ hub interface.

I'm not a fan of copper anti seize, it often dries out & cakes up.

[Nobbles]

So half way through it. Brew break. The pagid pads came with new clips and one caliper bolt for each side with thread lock on. The pagid discs are not to be cleaned as they have a coating on - as per instructions in the packaging. My extra accessories pack came with two pivot bolts, rubber bellows things and grease. Seems to be going ok.

[Matt Seabrook]

Just for people's information the third post down explains why copper slip is not recommended.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=111867&start=...

[thebraketester]

Matt Seabrook said:

Just for people's information the third post down explains why copper slip is not recommended.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=111867&start=...

Yeah but Bob has been using copper slip since 1867 so there cannot be a better product.... ;-)

[Nobbles]

All done. Even got me one of those eezibleed kits and changed the brake fluid.

[StoatInACoat]

Nice one. Brakes are a nice first job as you can see/feel the difference straight away. Easier to work on a fairly modern car too as I spent my teens fiddling with rusty old stters that were a nightmare to take apart and put back together!

[Mr2Mike]

Matt Seabrook said:

Just for people's information the third post down explains why copper slip is not recommended.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=111867&start=...

It doesn't explain anything at all. It simply says that copper can promote galvanic corrosion when in contact with aluminium, which would be true if the copper/aluminium interface was not surrounded in grease.

Irrespective, this doesn't relate to putting copper grease on the back or side contact areas of a brake pad as discussed above. Calipers on the vast majority of production cars are made from steel, not aluminium, and the ones that are made from aluminium are either anodised and/or have a harder stainless steel inserts to prevent wear on the contact areas.

This might be a reason not to use it on the mounting surface of an alloy wheel if it were true, but I have never seen corrosion promoted by copper grease on a wheel, but have seen plenty of corroded wheels seized onto the hub when it hadn't.

[Sylvaforever]

Nobbles said:

All done. Even got me one of those eezibleed kits and changed the brake fluid.

just a minor point but did no one tell you never do more than one thing to your brakes at a time?

[Mr2Mike]

Sylvaforever said:

just a minor point but did no one tell you never do more than one thing to your brakes at a time?

You'll need to explain that, it makes no sense to me

[PhillipM]

It used to be the case when pads and discs needed serious bedding in to only do the front and then do the rear after they'd bedded to avoid having almost no brakes for a while but:

a) That doesn't apply here anyway and
b) Pads haven't needed that for 40 years.

[Digby]

Mr2Mike said:

Matt Seabrook said:

Just for people's information the third post down explains why copper slip is not recommended.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=111867&start=...

It doesn't explain anything at all. It simply says that copper can promote galvanic corrosion when in contact with aluminium, which would be true if the copper/aluminium interface was not surrounded in grease.

Irrespective, this doesn't relate to putting copper grease on the back or side contact areas of a brake pad as discussed above. Calipers on the vast majority of production cars are made from steel, not aluminium, and the ones that are made from aluminium are either anodised and/or have a harder stainless steel inserts to prevent wear on the contact areas.

This might be a reason not to use it on the mounting surface of an alloy wheel if it were true, but I have never seen corrosion promoted by copper grease on a wheel, but have seen plenty of corroded wheels seized onto the hub when it hadn't.

I'm with you. Find me a single person on the planet who ever said "Damn, if only I hadn't used copper grease and had used xxx instead....." (when used correctly, of course)

How quickly do these 'reactions' take, anyway? How long before they damage items to the point of wishing you hadn't used a decent copper grease? Twenty years? Fifty?

This all reminds me of the jump to using nitrogen in tyres over air. A few bits of info surface, people who can make money from it convince you why it's great, some people lap it up and spread the word.

[HustleRussell]

Digby said:

I'm with you. Find me a single person on the planet who ever said "Damn, if only I hadn't used copper grease and had used xxx instead....." (when used correctly, of course)

How quickly do these 'reactions' take, anyway? How long before they damage items to the point of wishing you hadn't used a decent copper grease? Twenty years? Fifty?

This all reminds me of the jump to using nitrogen in tyres over air. A few bits of info surface, people who can make money from it convince you why it's great, some people lap it up and spread the word.

Yeah it's all a big conspiracy put out by 'big cera'...

Your engine could probably last the duration of your ownership with mineral oil.

Your brake fluid will probably carry on working if you never change it.

You can fill your tyres with undried air and not notice any detriment.

It's doing a right job, with the right stuff, with the best of the available information. Having read this thread and others I bought a tube of ceratec- it was £2.59 and if I don't lose it, it could probably last me a decade. I used it today changing some front brakes. I'll keep my copperslip and use it for the purpose it says on the tube- anti seize.