Ctek question

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

http://www.wilko.com/electrical-accessories/wilko-...

eltax91

9,866 posts

206 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

PositronicRay said:

eltax91 said:

PositronicRay said:

eltax91 said:

Are you not better off with a solar trickle charger instead?

I like proper battery conditioners, better than just a trickle charger. Keeps everything tickety boo during winter when this car only gets occasional use.

Fair enough. I'm not sure about your physical layout. But in my case I can park 'nose in' quite close to my garage. So I have run my ctek right up to the front wall of the garage and mounted it on an internal wall. I've then drilled a hole in the wall and mounted the ctek plug in it, recessed back a little but so I can still close the rubber cover.

On the car end I've wired one of their permanent battery connectors in to some wire I ran from the fuse box to the front bumper.

When I use the car I now simply connect/ disconnect one of their extensions to each end and off I go

Garage in the back garden with narrow access, plenty of space @ the front of the house however.

I could get my Midget and Alpine down and into the garage. With the SL I'd have to adopt a Daisy Duke style of exit. biggrin

Battery in the boot, Ideally I'd like to be able to unplug and go. Without having to coil up a mains cable. The perfect solution would be an outside power point, but not sure it's worth the fuss.

My battery is in the boot too (mx5). I just tapped a wire from the main fuse feed in the engine bay and found a suitable earth on the rad where I was mounting the plug. Permanent 12v feeds are plentiful in the engine bay, you don't need to access the battery directly.

30,186 posts

284 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

If you can cope with simple electronics, an alternative to a fuse at the battery end of the cable would be a diode. It would need to be rated high enough to cope with the maximum current your conditioner could supply. The advantage over a fuse is that as well as protecting against dead shorts in the cable, it would protect against a slow discharge from a partial short, which you might get if the cable insulation fails due to weather/cracks/water etc without forming a direct short.

If you're looking for convenient ways to connect / disconnect it, consider using a small axial connector inline with the cable, feeding through a boot/door/bonnet opening close enough to the car to be able to just tuck it inside. I like the SureSeal range for this type of thing - they're hermetically sealed, have a good current rating for the size, and will pull free if somebody forgets to disconnect before driving off.

11,209 posts

109 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

E-bmw said:

Penelope Stopit said:

GreenV8S said:

Penelope Stopit said:

I doubt you will need a fuse in the cable as the unit will have built in protection

Unit will be at the house end - the fuse would be to protect the battery from a short in the cable.

This is really funny, I nearly fell back off my chair when reading this
A fuse will protect a battery hey. Thats a classic. Thank you very much

Now read it properly then!

"the fuse would be to protect the battery from a short in the cable"

Means exactly that, if the + & - were shorted out the battery would have a short on it, the fuse in the leads would blow on high current (that is what fuses do) & therefore protect the battery from a short.

This is getting funnier by the minute, the chair is over and the lump on the back of my head is hurting.

What ammount of current do you think a starter motor draws out of a battery on initial cranking?
What ammount of current do you think 4 x heater plugs draw out of a battery before they heat up?
What ammount of current do you think a poxy 2.5 millimeter cable draws out of a battery when used as a dead short and how long would it take to burn through?

Fuses aren't used to protect batteries from short cicuits
Fuses are used to protect circuits connected to batteries

My feckin head hurts and my lungs are aching from laughter
Please give me a break and stop posting the comedy scripts

A fuse would protect the cable if it needed protecting, as I have mentioned earlier, there is a very good chance that the CTEK has built-in short circuit protection

Thanks for the comedy

AMG Merc

11,954 posts

253 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

Penelope Stopit said:

as I have mentioned earlier, there is a very good chance that the CTEK has built-in short circuit

Right, it does. biggrin

I've never found one that doesn't protect from a short or from reversed polarity. I've C-Tek plus others - and even my Lidl one does 6v (although no good to me)

11,209 posts

109 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

GreenV8S said:

If you can cope with simple electronics, an alternative to a fuse at the battery end of the cable would be a diode. It would need to be rated high enough to cope with the maximum current your conditioner could supply. The advantage over a fuse is that as well as protecting against dead shorts in the cable, it would protect against a slow discharge from a partial short, which you might get if the cable insulation fails due to weather/cracks/water etc without forming a direct short.

If you're looking for convenient ways to connect / disconnect it, consider using a small axial connector inline with the cable, feeding through a boot/door/bonnet opening close enough to the car to be able to just tuck it inside. I like the SureSeal range for this type of thing - they're hermetically sealed, have a good current rating for the size, and will pull free if somebody forgets to disconnect before driving off.

Feck. This is an absolute classic post and better by far than your other funny post
Why would anyone wish to use a diode instead of a fuse. The reality is that nobody in their right mind would use a diode instead of a fuse for numerous reasons

Now if by chance some idiot used a diode to protect a charger that had a charge/discharge cycle..........What would that idiot do when the charger switched over to discharge
OK I will tell you what an idiot that fits diodes in the battery side of a charger that has a charge/discharge cycle does. The idiot connects up the charger and switches it on, the idiot now sits and watches the charger charging and waits and watches and waits some more, an hour or two later the idiot is bogeyed from watching the charger charging when suddenly the charger goes into its discharge cycle and the idiot runs like feck to the diode and removes it from the cicuit because it wouldnt let current be drawn through it the other way

This is so feckin funny and I can't thank you enough for the laughs you have given me

Stick to a fuse if needed hey, what a feckin great laugh

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Tuesday 22 November 13:12

11,209 posts

109 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

AMG Merc said:

Penelope Stopit said:

as I have mentioned earlier, there is a very good chance that the CTEK has built-in short circuit

Right, it does. biggrin

I've never found one that doesn't protect from a short or from reversed polarity. I've C-Tek plus others - and even my Lidl one does 6v (although no good to me)

Thanks AMG Merc for the info
Are these CTEK chargers the dogs thingies?

AMG Merc

11,954 posts

253 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

Penelope Stopit said:

AMG Merc said:

Penelope Stopit said:

as I have mentioned earlier, there is a very good chance that the CTEK has built-in short circuit

Right, it does. biggrin

I've never found one that doesn't protect from a short or from reversed polarity. I've C-Tek plus others - and even my Lidl one does 6v (although no good to me)

Thanks AMG Merc for the info
Are these CTEK chargers the dogs thingies?

Hmmm, People love em. As said, I have one but am equally impressed with my £15 Lidl unit. I think these are better designed - German TUV approved/CE marked, etc. and with an LCD display showing the voltage and charging status (my C-Tek has no dispay, just LEDs). With conditioners, people will argue they're different but I feel they do much the same thing.

Some peeps say they're dangerous - I ask why the manufacturer's state they can be left on permamantly then. Mine are on for months - as are the one's in the storage facility I use (£15M worth of motors).

BTW - did you know Ferrari resell/rebadge a C-Tek Model - you pay 2-3 times for the prancing horse logo (they say it's modified but it isn't a bit)!

11,209 posts

109 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

AMG Merc said:

Penelope Stopit said:

AMG Merc said:

Penelope Stopit said:

as I have mentioned earlier, there is a very good chance that the CTEK has built-in short circuit

Right, it does. biggrin

I've never found one that doesn't protect from a short or from reversed polarity. I've C-Tek plus others - and even my Lidl one does 6v (although no good to me)

Thanks AMG Merc for the info
Are these CTEK chargers the dogs thingies?

Hmmm, People love em. As said, I have one but am equally impressed with my £15 Lidl unit. I think these are better designed - German TUV approved/CE marked, etc. and with an LCD display showing the voltage and charging status (my C-Tek has no dispay, just LEDs). With conditioners, people will argue they're different but I feel they do much the same thing.

Some peeps say they're dangerous - I ask why the manufacturer's state they can be left on permamantly then. Mine are on for months - as are the one's in the storage facility I use (£15M worth of motors).

BTW - did you know Ferrari resell/rebadge a C-Tek Model - you pay 2-3 times for the prancing horse logo (they say it's modified but it isn't a bit)!

That's interesting, I knew nothing about them but I do know, my big box of a charger has a analogue meter and I hardly ever use it
I am now considering selling these CTEK chargers with a De Tomaso Pantera GTS badge on them

30,186 posts

284 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

Penelope Stopit said:

This is getting funnier by the minute, the chair is over and the lump on the back of my head is hurting.

What ammount of current do you think a starter motor draws out of a battery on initial cranking?
What ammount of current do you think 4 x heater plugs draw out of a battery before they heat up?
What ammount of current do you think a poxy 2.5 millimeter cable draws out of a battery when used as a dead short and how long would it take to burn through?

Fuses aren't used to protect batteries from short cicuits
Fuses are used to protect circuits connected to batteries

My feckin head hurts and my lungs are aching from laughter
Please give me a break and stop posting the comedy scripts

A fuse would protect the cable if it needed protecting, as I have mentioned earlier, there is a very good chance that the CTEK has built-in short circuit protection

Thanks for the comedy

I think you are overlooking the fact that there is a long cable between the charger and the battery which is going to be exposed to the elements and could degrade over time. If anything compromises the cable insulation causing a short then both the charger and the battery would be at risk. The fuse at the charger end would protect the charger from damage. However, if the cable is connected directly to the battery then there is nothing to stop the battery from discharging through the damaged cable. A fuse between the battery and the cable would protect against that. It's not complicated, and I'm puzzled that you find this so hard to understand.

30,186 posts

284 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

Penelope Stopit said:

Feck. This is an absolute classic post and better by far than your other funny post
Why would anyone wish to use a diode instead of a fuse. The reality is that nobody in their right mind would use a diode instead of a fuse for numerous reasons

Now if by chance some idiot used a diode to protect a charger that had a charge/discharge cycle..........What would that idiot do when the charger switched over to discharge
OK I will tell you what an idiot that fits diodes in the battery side of a charger that has a charge/discharge cycle does. The idiot connects up the charger and switches it on, the idiot now sits and watches the charger charging and waits and watches and waits some more, an hour or two later the idiot is bogeyed from watching the charger charging when suddenly the charger goes into its discharge cycle and the idiot runs like feck to the diode and removes it from the cicuit because it wouldnt let current be drawn through it the other way

This is so feckin funny and I can't thank you enough for the laughs you have given me

Stick to a fuse if needed hey, what a feckin great laugh

I am not aware of any car battery conditioners which deliberately discharge the battery being maintained and I wouldn't have thought that discharging the car battery was sensible to do in this case given that the point of this whole setup is to keep it charged. The diode would prevent the battery from discharging through the cable and protect against a partial or complete short of the cable. You're right that it would prevent the battery conditioner from discharging the battery, and if the OP wanted to do that then the diode would get in the way. I don't think he does want to do that, though.

11,209 posts

109 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

GreenV8S said:

If you can cope with simple electronics, an alternative to a fuse at the battery end of the cable would be a diode. It would need to be rated high enough to cope with the maximum current your conditioner could supply. The advantage over a fuse is that as well as protecting against dead shorts in the cable, it would protect against a slow discharge from a partial short, which you might get if the cable insulation fails due to weather/cracks/water etc without forming a direct short.

If you're looking for convenient ways to connect / disconnect it, consider using a small axial connector inline with the cable, feeding through a boot/door/bonnet opening close enough to the car to be able to just tuck it inside. I like the SureSeal range for this type of thing - they're hermetically sealed, have a good current rating for the size, and will pull free if somebody forgets to disconnect before driving off.

I will always remember this post as I find it really funny, you will have to excuse me for finding this post funny, I can't help but laugh at this

11,209 posts

109 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

GreenV8S said:

Penelope Stopit said:

I doubt you will need a fuse in the cable as the unit will have built in protection

Unit will be at the house end - the fuse would be to protect the battery from a short in the cable.

I can't help but laugh at this
Since when will a fuse protect a battery?

11,209 posts

109 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

E-bmw said:

Now read it properly then!

"the fuse would be to protect the battery from a short in the cable"

Means exactly that, if the + & - were shorted out the battery would have a short on it, the fuse in the leads would blow on high current (that is what fuses do) & therefore protect the battery from a short.

My other comment was directed at the above

30,186 posts

284 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

Penelope Stopit said:

I can't help but laugh at this
Since when will a fuse protect a battery?

Do you understand the installation scenario being discussed here? The OP is considering having a battery maintainer indoors connected via a long cable to the vehicle which is kept outside some distance away. The cable being proposed isn't armored, isn't intended for outdoors use, will be exposed to the elements over a long period and might be damaged. Some possible types of damage would result in the insulation breaking down. That could lead to a partial or full short circuit within the cable. If you haven't got that part, I can see how the rest of the discussion could be confusing.

Imagine a battery maintainer connected to the battery. Imagine causing a dead short in the cable between them. The battery maintainer will see the short but as long as it is fused the fuse will protect it from overcurrent damage. The battery will also see the short and will happily dump several hundred amps down the cable. That might not damage the battery directly but the ensuing fire probably won't do it any favours. A partial short drawing a small enough current not to be a fire hazard would still drain the battery.

A fuse between the vehicle and the cable would prevent a complete short from setting things on fire. A diode would do that too, and would also protect the battery from being drained by a partial short. You're right that the diode would prevent a battery conditioner from discharging the battery. If the OP wants to do that then the diode would be a poor choice, but I don't think he wants to do that.

phillpot

17,114 posts

183 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2016

Penelope Stopit said:

Are these CTEK chargers the dogs thingies?

Finally something you're not an expert on?

E-bmw

9,199 posts

152 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2016

Penelope Stopit said:

E-bmw said:

Penelope Stopit said:

GreenV8S said:

Penelope Stopit said:

I doubt you will need a fuse in the cable as the unit will have built in protection

Unit will be at the house end - the fuse would be to protect the battery from a short in the cable.

This is really funny, I nearly fell back off my chair when reading this
A fuse will protect a battery hey. Thats a classic. Thank you very much

Now read it properly then!

"the fuse would be to protect the battery from a short in the cable"

Means exactly that, if the + & - were shorted out the battery would have a short on it, the fuse in the leads would blow on high current (that is what fuses do) & therefore protect the battery from a short.

This is getting funnier by the minute, the chair is over and the lump on the back of my head is hurting.

What ammount of current do you think a starter motor draws out of a battery on initial cranking?
What ammount of current do you think 4 x heater plugs draw out of a battery before they heat up?
What ammount of current do you think a poxy 2.5 millimeter cable draws out of a battery when used as a dead short and how long would it take to burn through?

Fuses aren't used to protect batteries from short cicuits
Fuses are used to protect circuits connected to batteries

My feckin head hurts and my lungs are aching from laughter
Please give me a break and stop posting the comedy scripts

A fuse would protect the cable if it needed protecting, as I have mentioned earlier, there is a very good chance that the CTEK has built-in short circuit protection

Thanks for the comedy

Clearly you do not understand what is being talked about here so let me put this into REALLY simple terms.

Let us do something REALLY silly here & deliberately replicate the fault condition discussed in the simplest terms.

The fault below could be caused by degraded insulation causing short circuit between the charging leads near the car end.

The charger is connected to the battery by 2 leads.

Cut both leads & simulate a worst case scenario by joining both part leads to the charger, the charger protection kicks in & blows fuse/trips etc. no problem for the charger/car.

Now connect the 2 part leads to the battery, you now have a full short across the battery terminals. Yes it WILL blow the wires but a LOT slower than it would blow a fuse that was suggested be fitted at the (croc clip/etc) battery connection for the charging leads. This could well be a problem for the battery/car/house/garage depending exactly where it happens & what is in the vicinity at the time.

11,209 posts

109 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2016

PositronicRay said:

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

http://www.wilko.com/electrical-accessories/wilko-...

These extensions are ok but dangerous, any water getting in them could electrocute a person to death or keep tripping the Residual Current Device (if fitted) in the house electrics consumer unit

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Wednesday 23 November 15:36

11,209 posts

109 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2016

phillpot said:

Penelope Stopit said:

Are these CTEK chargers the dogs thingies?

Finally something you're not an expert on?

What a strange comment about a stranger

11,209 posts

109 months