Truck driver rest rules....really?

[chilistrucker]

Guess it's all thanks to the e.u!
The rules are bonkers, they really could just do with simplifying.

[Nigel Worc's]

chilistrucker said:

Guess it's all thanks to the e.u!
The rules are bonkers, they really could just do with simplifying.

having learnt a little about them I agree, although the GB Domestic hours rules I've become subject to are nothing to do with the EU, they don't even apply in Northern Ireland, they are purely home grown, I am guessing that van drivers are going to become the next hate target of VOSA.

[mph1977]

Nigel Worc's said:

I had one that wouldn't let me out of a layby recently.

Strange how they can move when a Police Constable tells them to.

They can be absolute arses.

sadly a manual entry saying " some no-mark called Nigel who claimed to once have been a Special demanded I moved " would carry rather less weight with DVSA and the TCs than a manual entry witha log no. and collar no. of an actual serving Officer or HATO.

for someone who alleges to have held the opffice of constable you really a numpty Nigel and this is why current Volunteer staff across the Emergency services face an uphill battle becasue of incompetent no-mark Hobby bobbys and St Toms ambulance ...

[grumpy52]

When I explained to the last vosa chap that pulled me over that in certain circumstances vehicles carrying certain loads won't pull over or follow to inspection places until they are confirmed as legitiimate by the police he was not a happy bunny .I then asked him if he would pull over for anybody driving a Galaxy with viynl and amber lights on it if you had a load worth £millions ?
He was very very grumpy after 40mins he could find nothing to take money off me for .

[Nigel Worc's]

mph1977 said:

Nigel Worc's said:

I had one that wouldn't let me out of a layby recently.

Strange how they can move when a Police Constable tells them to.

They can be absolute arses.

sadly a manual entry saying " some no-mark called Nigel who claimed to once have been a Special demanded I moved " would carry rather less weight with DVSA and the TCs than a manual entry witha log no. and collar no. of an actual serving Officer or HATO.

for someone who alleges to have held the opffice of constable you really a numpty Nigel and this is why current Volunteer staff across the Emergency services face an uphill battle becasue of incompetent no-mark Hobby bobbys and St Toms ambulance ...

Then don't block the exit of layby's, that should be easy enough for even the dimmest of people to understand.

[Super Slo Mo]

Nigel Worc's said:

having learnt a little about them I agree, although the GB Domestic hours rules I've become subject to are nothing to do with the EU, they don't even apply in Northern Ireland, they are purely home grown, I am guessing that van drivers are going to become the next hate target of VOSA.

They're not new rules either, I think they date back to the 60's, they certainly pre date the tacho rules from Europe.

[mph1977]

grumpy52 said:

When I explained to the last vosa chap that pulled me over that in certain circumstances vehicles carrying certain loads won't pull over or follow to inspection places until they are confirmed as legitiimate by the police he was not a happy bunny .I then asked him if he would pull over for anybody driving a Galaxy with viynl and amber lights on it if you had a load worth £millions ?
He was very very grumpy after 40mins he could find nothing to take money off me for .

which is why the DVSA and HATO staff doing stopping are uniformed and have suitable IDs

also 'failure of the attitude test really doesn;t help

[hidetheelephants]

chilistrucker said:

Guess it's all thanks to the e.u!
The rules are bonkers, they really could just do with simplifying.

It's madness; all the data they want could be gathered by a bloody phone app and sent in pretty much real time directly to both your transport manager and the traffic commissioner; that you have to fk about with an absurdly expensive glorified speedometer, paper rolls, stupid rules and tacho spot checks is entirely ridiculous. You should all go on strike for a week; the powers that be would bloody well take notice then.

[Nigel Worc's]

hidetheelephants said:

It's madness; all the data they want could be gathered by a bloody phone app and sent in pretty much real time directly to both your transport manager and the traffic commissioner; that you have to fk about with an absurdly expensive glorified speedometer, paper rolls, stupid rules and tacho spot checks is entirely ridiculous. You should all go on strike for a week; the powers that be would bloody well take notice then.

I don't normally find myself supporting truckers, but you'd be hard pressed not to support them doing that.

[chilistrucker]

Unfortunately we as truckers have never really succeeded at striking in this country. The French have it down to a fine art. Getting us lot to stick together would be hard enough, especially with the huge influx we now have in the UK of foreign drivers.
That's without even trying to get the general public on board!
General haulage has on the whole slowly been ruined in this country it's why I prefer to try and work in more of a niche market, but still remain mainly as a wagon driver!
Trying to stay 100% legal, and remain happy in your work for a good wage whilst adhering to every single companies rules, regulations and health and safety is no easy feat anymore!
Let alone the roads, congestion and general facilities provided for truck drivers it's amazing anyone these days still considers a worthy career to pursue.

[GC8]

vikingaero said:

Nowadays you see loads of lorries blocking full laybys with their hazards on "because they are on their break". Then when space(s) is/are freed up they can't move. The world revolves around them...

Are you really this ignorant and unworldly? Do you have any idea how tightly drivers hours are policed and how serious an infraction would be for a professional driver?

[Nigel Worc's]

GC8 said:

vikingaero said:

Nowadays you see loads of lorries blocking full laybys with their hazards on "because they are on their break". Then when space(s) is/are freed up they can't move. The world revolves around them...

Are you really this ignorant and unworldly? Do you have any idea how tightly drivers hours are policed and how serious an infraction would be for a professional driver?

Enough to say "sod the rest of you" ?

[grumpy52]

mph1977 said:

grumpy52 said:

When I explained to the last vosa chap that pulled me over that in certain circumstances vehicles carrying certain loads won't pull over or follow to inspection places until they are confirmed as legitiimate by the police he was not a happy bunny .I then asked him if he would pull over for anybody driving a Galaxy with viynl and amber lights on it if you had a load worth £millions ?
He was very very grumpy after 40mins he could find nothing to take money off me for .

which is why the DVSA and HATO staff doing stopping are uniformed and have suitable IDs

also 'failure of the attitude test really doesn;t help

All traff pol I have spoken to about driving with high value loads have all understood the need to confirm the bona fides before stopping .
One vosa official even asked me if I was 'job' when he approached me mistaking my work clothes for a uniform under a two tone hi-viz .
Anyone having security training is taught that the most common instance of high value load theft after inside knowledge is impersonation of police or other officials usually VOSA or Customs , trust no one !

[GC8]

Nigel Worc's said:

GC8 said:

vikingaero said:

Nowadays you see loads of lorries blocking full laybys with their hazards on "because they are on their break". Then when space(s) is/are freed up they can't move. The world revolves around them...

Are you really this ignorant and unworldly? Do you have any idea how tightly drivers hours are policed and how serious an infraction would be for a professional driver?

Enough to say "sod the rest of you" ?

No, but is changes your perspective somewhat.

[All that jazz]

Nickyboy said:

Yes!

Its not the distance that's the issue, with digital tachographs if you move the vehicle even a few feet the tacho can record it and automatically record it as 15mins of "driving" regardless of whether you took 15 seconds or 15 mins. This renders your break invalid meaning you've probably gone over your driving time and creating an infringement which can be up to a £1k fine for the driver.

That's a load of bks. It records it as 1 min of driving, not 15. You could do 1 second of driving and then put it back to break/POA/other work if you wish and it would only record 1 min of driving. However if you move it slow enough you can move without the mode changing back to driving. By "slow enough" I mean the kind of pace that you would be able to push an average car on the flat in neutral, ie. marginally faster than the speed of a snail.

[Getragdogleg]

All that jazz said:

Nickyboy said:

Yes!

Its not the distance that's the issue, with digital tachographs if you move the vehicle even a few feet the tacho can record it and automatically record it as 15mins of "driving" regardless of whether you took 15 seconds or 15 mins. This renders your break invalid meaning you've probably gone over your driving time and creating an infringement which can be up to a £1k fine for the driver.

That's a load of bks. It records it as 1 min of driving, not 15. You could do 1 second of driving and then put it back to break/POA/other work if you wish and it would only record 1 min of driving. However if you move it slow enough you can move without the mode changing back to driving. By "slow enough" I mean the kind of pace that you would be able to push an average car on the flat in neutral, ie. marginally faster than the speed of a snail.

And that's a load of bks. on the majority of modern trucks the digi tacho gets its signal from the ABS system, the castellated rings are tiny so register any movement at all no matter how slow.

Breaks are supposed to be uninterrupted. No faff, not moving, by definition a rest.

If the councils and government would actually address the main problem which is a lack of suitable rest stops that are not filled with rubbish, horrible toilets and extortionate charges then we might not get uppity and stop in peoples way.

If they want us to obey their rules then they need to make it possible to obey them. You try and find a place in London to stop and have a mandatory break it is pretty much impossible, same for most cities and towns.

[All that jazz]

Getragdogleg said:

All that jazz said:

Nickyboy said:

Yes!

Its not the distance that's the issue, with digital tachographs if you move the vehicle even a few feet the tacho can record it and automatically record it as 15mins of "driving" regardless of whether you took 15 seconds or 15 mins. This renders your break invalid meaning you've probably gone over your driving time and creating an infringement which can be up to a £1k fine for the driver.

That's a load of bks. It records it as 1 min of driving, not 15. You could do 1 second of driving and then put it back to break/POA/other work if you wish and it would only record 1 min of driving. However if you move it slow enough you can move without the mode changing back to driving. By "slow enough" I mean the kind of pace that you would be able to push an average car on the flat in neutral, ie. marginally faster than the speed of a snail.

And that's a load of bks. on the majority of modern trucks the digi tacho gets its signal from the ABS system, the castellated rings are tiny so register any movement at all no matter how slow.

Please don't comment on things you know nothing about or have been told by other gobstes in RDC waiting rooms. I can tell you with absolute certainty that moving very slowly will not change the mode to driving. I had to do this only recently when an FLT needed me to move back 10ft to get some pallets. I didn't *need* the tacho break I was taking at the time, but by having a 15 there it makes my life easier later in the shift. I reluctantly moved forwards veryyyyy slowly the 10ft needed and the mode remained on break throughout. A print out also later confirmed that the break was not interrupted.

[GC8]

Ive noticed a lot of 'NO HGV Overnight Parking' NIMBY signs of late, too. Of dubious legality, but there none the less.

[Getragdogleg]

All that jazz said:

Getragdogleg said:

All that jazz said:

Nickyboy said:

Yes!

Its not the distance that's the issue, with digital tachographs if you move the vehicle even a few feet the tacho can record it and automatically record it as 15mins of "driving" regardless of whether you took 15 seconds or 15 mins. This renders your break invalid meaning you've probably gone over your driving time and creating an infringement which can be up to a £1k fine for the driver.

That's a load of bks. It records it as 1 min of driving, not 15. You could do 1 second of driving and then put it back to break/POA/other work if you wish and it would only record 1 min of driving. However if you move it slow enough you can move without the mode changing back to driving. By "slow enough" I mean the kind of pace that you would be able to push an average car on the flat in neutral, ie. marginally faster than the speed of a snail.

And that's a load of bks. on the majority of modern trucks the digi tacho gets its signal from the ABS system, the castellated rings are tiny so register any movement at all no matter how slow.

Please don't comment on things you know nothing about or have been told by other gobstes in RDC waiting rooms. I can tell you with absolute certainty that moving very slowly will not change the mode to driving. I had to do this only recently when an FLT needed me to move back 10ft to get some pallets. I didn't *need* the tacho break I was taking at the time, but by having a 15 there it makes my life easier later in the shift. I reluctantly moved forwards veryyyyy slowly the 10ft needed and the mode remained on break throughout. A print out also later confirmed that the break was not interrupted.

Never had the pleasure of any RDC waiting because I wont waste my time with st work so I don't get a lot of access to "other gobstes".

Don't assume I know nothing about it and I am some kind of fkwit, been in this game 20 years + on both tools and driving. DO you work in the mechanical side of the industry or do you just drive ?

The type of vehicle will have a bearing on how the tacho pick up its information, I happen to know you cannot move a modern Mercedes without it tripping no matter how slow. Older stuff you could get away with simply keeping the ignition off and knocking the parking brake off and rolling if you were on a slope but the modern autos wont even let you do that.

The rest of my post stands. pedantry about tacho pick-up systems and the attitude "you can move it, its ok" is why we as a group can never stick together and get the overbearing rules changed, no-one stands together because there is always some smart arse who knows a way around the rules and is happy to tell every one.

Its a break, there are precious few places to take a break, I am not moving if there is a chance my digi spy will grass me up and DVSA will dip me for a hundred quid on a fking infringement. Telling them "its ok, I went slow, some bloke on Pistonheads said its ok" is not going to get me out of it.

[All that jazz]

Getragdogleg said:

Never had the pleasure of any RDC waiting because I wont waste my time with st work so I don't get a lot of access to "other gobstes".

Don't assume I know nothing about it and I am some kind of fkwit, been in this game 20 years + on both tools and driving. DO you work in the mechanical side of the industry or do you just drive ?

The type of vehicle will have a bearing on how the tacho pick up its information, I happen to know you cannot move a modern Mercedes without it tripping no matter how slow. Older stuff you could get away with simply keeping the ignition off and knocking the parking brake off and rolling if you were on a slope but the modern autos wont even let you do that.

The rest of my post stands. pedantry about tacho pick-up systems and the attitude "you can move it, its ok" is why we as a group can never stick together and get the overbearing rules changed, no-one stands together because there is always some smart arse who knows a way around the rules and is happy to tell every one.

Its a break, there are precious few places to take a break, I am not moving if there is a chance my digi spy will grass me up and DVSA will dip me for a hundred quid on a fking infringement. Telling them "its ok, I went slow, some bloke on Pistonheads said its ok" is not going to get me out of it.

Well you do whatever you want, frankly I don't care. The comments I posted in reply to the post by someone else are correct. Whether he believes them because "some bloke on pistonheads said its[sic] ok" makes no odds to me either way.