Tow car ideas please...
Discussion
R0G said:
Watchman said:
MattS3 said:
Edit - Just checked the X Trail diesel and the tow weight is down at 1500kg. That rules it out of the equation
Ooh, is it? Well, that's disappointing.My W164 ML320CDI can tow 3500Kg. That sort of means "anything you can throw at me".
Thats the new down sized xtrail you are looking at, in your budget you are looking at this sort of thing which will tow2200 kg
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
What about skoda superb 4x4 estate?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
What about skoda superb 4x4 estate?
+1 for the X5. I started towing with a Merc 320cdi E class estate (van is 1750KG). Had plenty of power, but not heavy enough to control the van at anything like Mway speeds, particularly when van man goes past at 90 - the whole lot wagged. Also shagged the rear suspension and all brake pads.
Switched to an X5 40d - amazing for towing, and also pretty damn quick when solo - doesn't feel sluggish even after driving my Porsche. A 30d woud do the trick as same weight but cheaper, and plenty powerful enough for the vans you are looking at.
Switched to an X5 40d - amazing for towing, and also pretty damn quick when solo - doesn't feel sluggish even after driving my Porsche. A 30d woud do the trick as same weight but cheaper, and plenty powerful enough for the vans you are looking at.
Crikey this is harder work than I imagined, I guess I'm looking to get to under 80% as opposed to being happy with 85% weight ratio which is causing issues.
The van itself would probably get used 6-8 times a year, all trips with in a radius of no more than 100 miles, more often than not around 50 from where we live, in north Norfolk, which means no motorways for at least an hour of any journey we might make.
The van is supplementary to a regular holiday taken abroad, not a replacment for them.
Majority driving on single lane A roads would negate the longer drives where a big 4x4 is required I think.
Looking at the list in my head so far:
Tiguan - 2 litre petrol on 85% weight ratio, marginal but might suffice and 4x4 albeit it Haldex,
Kuga - 2 litre diesel but a little lighter than the Tiguan, so potentially ruled out.
X Trail - Wife doesnt like it, looks to much like an estate car.
Skoda superb - as above, but it is an estate car
Sportage - Not powerful or heavy enough
X3 - The 2.0d with 178 BHP looked really promising until I read about the cam chain and coke issues.
X5 - The 2006-2010 model years are in budget but tax is crazy for such an age of car
CRV - Still looks good on paper. Disappointingly so.
Ultimately the car will in be driven less than 500-600 miles per year towing a caravan, with probably the other 9k predominantly be driven solo, so I'm trying not to buy a car based on the van, more a car based on using the van occasionally but within safety tolerances.
If I was happy to replace my S3, I'd probably sell my MX5 too and buy a Disco 4 3.0 diesel which would do an admiral job, but I'm really not keen on having to drive such a big, less fun vehicle on a daily basis.
Decisions decisions.
The van itself would probably get used 6-8 times a year, all trips with in a radius of no more than 100 miles, more often than not around 50 from where we live, in north Norfolk, which means no motorways for at least an hour of any journey we might make.
The van is supplementary to a regular holiday taken abroad, not a replacment for them.
Majority driving on single lane A roads would negate the longer drives where a big 4x4 is required I think.
Looking at the list in my head so far:
Tiguan - 2 litre petrol on 85% weight ratio, marginal but might suffice and 4x4 albeit it Haldex,
Kuga - 2 litre diesel but a little lighter than the Tiguan, so potentially ruled out.
X Trail - Wife doesnt like it, looks to much like an estate car.
Skoda superb - as above, but it is an estate car
Sportage - Not powerful or heavy enough
X3 - The 2.0d with 178 BHP looked really promising until I read about the cam chain and coke issues.
X5 - The 2006-2010 model years are in budget but tax is crazy for such an age of car
CRV - Still looks good on paper. Disappointingly so.
Ultimately the car will in be driven less than 500-600 miles per year towing a caravan, with probably the other 9k predominantly be driven solo, so I'm trying not to buy a car based on the van, more a car based on using the van occasionally but within safety tolerances.
If I was happy to replace my S3, I'd probably sell my MX5 too and buy a Disco 4 3.0 diesel which would do an admiral job, but I'm really not keen on having to drive such a big, less fun vehicle on a daily basis.
Decisions decisions.
OK, if using car to tow so little and not on motorways and in Norfolk, where its flat, I would not worry about 85% rule at all.
And now for something completly different!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
Or buy whatever car you want and get an old land rover as well!
And now for something completly different!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
Or buy whatever car you want and get an old land rover as well!
When I was looking for a tow car for to use to get the race car about the Audi A4 / A6 Quattros with the 3.0tdi had good tow capacity.
I ended up with an A4 3.0tdi and have been very happy with it, drives and handles well, more economical than the bigger 4x4's and quite happily tows 1500kg without ever feeling like it's struggling (official tow capacity is 2000kg I think)
I ended up with an A4 3.0tdi and have been very happy with it, drives and handles well, more economical than the bigger 4x4's and quite happily tows 1500kg without ever feeling like it's struggling (official tow capacity is 2000kg I think)
Not sure what you're comparing the X5 VED rates to(?), but as I said, everything from 2008 should be 285-ish rather than 465 which it definitely was for the very first of the E70's.
I don't see that as horrendous.
Also, the Disco 4 is very definitely not a driving machine and if you were to go down the route of chopping in the S3 and MX-5, the X5 would more than adequately replace them for driving fun.
X5-fanboy I might be, but worth having a testdrive IMO.
I don't see that as horrendous.
Also, the Disco 4 is very definitely not a driving machine and if you were to go down the route of chopping in the S3 and MX-5, the X5 would more than adequately replace them for driving fun.
X5-fanboy I might be, but worth having a testdrive IMO.
Spuffington said:
Not sure what you're comparing the X5 VED rates to(?), but as I said, everything from 2008 should be 285-ish rather than 465 which it definitely was for the very first of the E70's.
I don't see that as horrendous.
Also, the Disco 4 is very definitely not a driving machine and if you were to go down the route of chopping in the S3 and MX-5, the X5 would more than adequately replace them for driving fun.
X5-fanboy I might be, but worth having a testdrive IMO.
I've been looking Spuffington, but nothing under £15k with the right tax bracket.I don't see that as horrendous.
Also, the Disco 4 is very definitely not a driving machine and if you were to go down the route of chopping in the S3 and MX-5, the X5 would more than adequately replace them for driving fun.
X5-fanboy I might be, but worth having a testdrive IMO.
£280 models are here http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/cars/bmw/x...
andye30m3 said:
When I was looking for a tow car for to use to get the race car about the Audi A4 / A6 Quattros with the 3.0tdi had good tow capacity.
I ended up with an A4 3.0tdi and have been very happy with it, drives and handles well, more economical than the bigger 4x4's and quite happily tows 1500kg without ever feeling like it's struggling (official tow capacity is 2000kg I think)
Pretty sure the 3.0TDi Audi is the higher tax bracket too?I ended up with an A4 3.0tdi and have been very happy with it, drives and handles well, more economical than the bigger 4x4's and quite happily tows 1500kg without ever feeling like it's struggling (official tow capacity is 2000kg I think)
I was debating just getting a cheap old Isuzi 4x4 for around £3k which would be cheaper tax, but don't really want a 4th car, and one which is only going to get used so very little.
I also like to have a few creature comforts and a 15 year old 4x4 wont give me that that.
I'm struggling to justify the MX5 after doing less than 150 miles so far this year, just if I sell it my kids will moan at me.
MattS3 said:
andye30m3 said:
When I was looking for a tow car for to use to get the race car about the Audi A4 / A6 Quattros with the 3.0tdi had good tow capacity.
I ended up with an A4 3.0tdi and have been very happy with it, drives and handles well, more economical than the bigger 4x4's and quite happily tows 1500kg without ever feeling like it's struggling (official tow capacity is 2000kg I think)
Pretty sure the 3.0TDi Audi is the higher tax bracket too?I ended up with an A4 3.0tdi and have been very happy with it, drives and handles well, more economical than the bigger 4x4's and quite happily tows 1500kg without ever feeling like it's struggling (official tow capacity is 2000kg I think)
I was debating just getting a cheap old Isuzi 4x4 for around £3k which would be cheaper tax, but don't really want a 4th car, and one which is only going to get used so very little.
I also like to have a few creature comforts and a 15 year old 4x4 wont give me that that.
I'm struggling to justify the MX5 after doing less than 150 miles so far this year, just if I sell it my kids will moan at me.
Pulls my large twin axle brilliantly - I also have the adaptive air suspension and I think that really helps.
Seen here last week:
Our 60-reg X5 3.0D was only £285 tax which isn't so bad (except the car was nicked after only 6 weeks of ownership).
Our 08-ML 320CDI is in the silly bracket - £400-and-something.
But in the context of annual costs, the tax cost is piffling.
The X5 had a relatively low towing capability (around 2-tonnes). It'd be plenty enough for what you need though. The ML can tow fully-loaded horse boxes (and easily cope with them) - 3500Kg.
The X5 was more powerful than the ML but the ML has a 7-speed box over the X5's 6-speed. First gear in the ML makes for a very useful "crawler" and with a set of General Grabber AT tyres, can pull anything out of any muddy field anywhere.
The X5 drove more like a car in "normal" use but was very stiffly sprung. The steering wheel was too fat but steering ratio was more car-like. The ML has a thinner steering wheel but quite large and bus-like. It rides far better than the X5 but never lulls you into thinking it's a sports car. Never. Ever.
That said, I'm rarely at the front of a queue.
We bought an X5 with a set of stupid stupid wheels - 10.5" at the rear and spray-on tyres. It limited our options for winter tyres and I was adamant we were going to put winter tyres on it. These kind of cars suffer from enough negative publicity for them supposedly being incompetent 4WD vehicles, so I wanted to give it every chance at succeeding. But a set of winters for that would have been £1400. A set of Grabbers for the ML cost a shade over £500 and stay on the car all year - they last a year so I replace them at the beginning of each winter.
Apart from those two, we've had a succession of 4WD/AWD cars in the family including:
2 x Legacys (W-reg 2.0 litre and 05-reg 3.0 litre)
RAV-4 (T-reg 2.0 litre petrol)
CRV (05-reg 2.0 petrol)
X-Trail (09-reg 2.0 diesel)
The 3-litre Legacy *pulled* well enough because it had 245bhp but wasn't heavy enough for an 1800Kg caravan. We haven't towed with the Rav, CRV or X-Trail but the Rav and CRV don't have the greatest 4WD systems so I wouldn't bother.
Our 08-ML 320CDI is in the silly bracket - £400-and-something.
But in the context of annual costs, the tax cost is piffling.
The X5 had a relatively low towing capability (around 2-tonnes). It'd be plenty enough for what you need though. The ML can tow fully-loaded horse boxes (and easily cope with them) - 3500Kg.
The X5 was more powerful than the ML but the ML has a 7-speed box over the X5's 6-speed. First gear in the ML makes for a very useful "crawler" and with a set of General Grabber AT tyres, can pull anything out of any muddy field anywhere.
The X5 drove more like a car in "normal" use but was very stiffly sprung. The steering wheel was too fat but steering ratio was more car-like. The ML has a thinner steering wheel but quite large and bus-like. It rides far better than the X5 but never lulls you into thinking it's a sports car. Never. Ever.
That said, I'm rarely at the front of a queue.
We bought an X5 with a set of stupid stupid wheels - 10.5" at the rear and spray-on tyres. It limited our options for winter tyres and I was adamant we were going to put winter tyres on it. These kind of cars suffer from enough negative publicity for them supposedly being incompetent 4WD vehicles, so I wanted to give it every chance at succeeding. But a set of winters for that would have been £1400. A set of Grabbers for the ML cost a shade over £500 and stay on the car all year - they last a year so I replace them at the beginning of each winter.
Apart from those two, we've had a succession of 4WD/AWD cars in the family including:
2 x Legacys (W-reg 2.0 litre and 05-reg 3.0 litre)
RAV-4 (T-reg 2.0 litre petrol)
CRV (05-reg 2.0 petrol)
X-Trail (09-reg 2.0 diesel)
The 3-litre Legacy *pulled* well enough because it had 245bhp but wasn't heavy enough for an 1800Kg caravan. We haven't towed with the Rav, CRV or X-Trail but the Rav and CRV don't have the greatest 4WD systems so I wouldn't bother.
Rosscow said:
I have a 2006 A6 3.0TDI Quattro (manual) and it is £280 a year tax.
Pulls my large twin axle brilliantly - I also have the adaptive air suspension and I think that really helps.
Seen here last week:
Air suspension makes towing so much easier. That is a lovely set-up you have there.Pulls my large twin axle brilliantly - I also have the adaptive air suspension and I think that really helps.
Seen here last week:
Given the amount of use for towing, general practicalities etc I'd be looking a diesel estate - 530d or A6 3.0 TDI, or an Octavia Scout at a stretch. Failing that an X5 if you are really keen on some sort of SUV type vehicle for other reasons.
Whilst it'd be nice to be able to tow 15 elephants up K2, practically speaking if using it for 9K a year of normal driving personally I'd be focusing on cars that'll 'do the job' towing wise but are more focused on meeting your day to day driving needs/wants. A well specced A6 or 5 series is comfortable, practical and pokey enough to meet your day to day needs whilst having the necessary performance for the odd towing duties.
That's where my money would go anyway.
Whilst it'd be nice to be able to tow 15 elephants up K2, practically speaking if using it for 9K a year of normal driving personally I'd be focusing on cars that'll 'do the job' towing wise but are more focused on meeting your day to day driving needs/wants. A well specced A6 or 5 series is comfortable, practical and pokey enough to meet your day to day needs whilst having the necessary performance for the odd towing duties.
That's where my money would go anyway.
Yep, definitely needs to be user (wife) friendly for the other 354 days when it wont be towing a caravan.
The 3 litre German estates are attractive but the road tax isn't that favourable on the cars in the bracket we're looking to spend.
I know it's only relative, but larger cars equals larger bills (tyres, discs, pads, suspension etc) and having 3 cars to tax and insure already, getting stuffed another £250 over and above a normal car for road tax does come into consideration. Also there is the size issue of trying to park a German barge in the supermarket car parks etc (her GTi has a few battle scars and that's not a big car)
Also have to factor in when the vehicle comes to be sold in 3 years time and is then worth buttons, no one is going to pay £4-5k for a car which costs £500 a year to tax.
I know we have to make a compromise somewhere, just juggling which ones currently.
The 3 litre German estates are attractive but the road tax isn't that favourable on the cars in the bracket we're looking to spend.
I know it's only relative, but larger cars equals larger bills (tyres, discs, pads, suspension etc) and having 3 cars to tax and insure already, getting stuffed another £250 over and above a normal car for road tax does come into consideration. Also there is the size issue of trying to park a German barge in the supermarket car parks etc (her GTi has a few battle scars and that's not a big car)
Also have to factor in when the vehicle comes to be sold in 3 years time and is then worth buttons, no one is going to pay £4-5k for a car which costs £500 a year to tax.
I know we have to make a compromise somewhere, just juggling which ones currently.
Watchman said:
Rosscow said:
I have a 2006 A6 3.0TDI Quattro (manual) and it is £280 a year tax.
Pulls my large twin axle brilliantly - I also have the adaptive air suspension and I think that really helps.
Seen here last week:
Air suspension makes towing so much easier. That is a lovely set-up you have there.Pulls my large twin axle brilliantly - I also have the adaptive air suspension and I think that really helps.
Seen here last week:
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