Tow car ideas please...
Discussion
MattS3 said:
Yep, definitely needs to be user (wife) friendly for the other 354 days when it wont be towing a caravan.
The 3 litre German estates are attractive but the road tax isn't that favourable on the cars in the bracket we're looking to spend.
I know it's only relative, but larger cars equals larger bills (tyres, discs, pads, suspension etc) and having 3 cars to tax and insure already, getting stuffed another £250 over and above a normal car for road tax does come into consideration. Also there is the size issue of trying to park a German barge in the supermarket car parks etc (her GTi has a few battle scars and that's not a big car)
Also have to factor in when the vehicle comes to be sold in 3 years time and is then worth buttons, no one is going to pay £4-5k for a car which costs £500 a year to tax.
I know we have to make a compromise somewhere, just juggling which ones currently.
Why do you have to spend so much on it?The 3 litre German estates are attractive but the road tax isn't that favourable on the cars in the bracket we're looking to spend.
I know it's only relative, but larger cars equals larger bills (tyres, discs, pads, suspension etc) and having 3 cars to tax and insure already, getting stuffed another £250 over and above a normal car for road tax does come into consideration. Also there is the size issue of trying to park a German barge in the supermarket car parks etc (her GTi has a few battle scars and that's not a big car)
Also have to factor in when the vehicle comes to be sold in 3 years time and is then worth buttons, no one is going to pay £4-5k for a car which costs £500 a year to tax.
I know we have to make a compromise somewhere, just juggling which ones currently.
It sounds to me like you are overlooking a lot of good tow cars as they are too cheap.
An 06 or 56 reg A6 3.0 TDI Quattro will tow most large caravans (I think max tow limit is 1900kg).
I got lucky and found one that was manual and with air suspension - that being said the general opinion is that the auto box suits the engine better. But I just like manuals!
I know this isn't an estate, but the mileage and age the price is pretty good:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
I had to replace my front discs last month - I bought OEM Pagid discs and pads and got a mechanic friend (Ambulance technician) to fit them for £40. £200 job done - big and German doesn't have to mean expensive to run.
This is obviously more money but would be an excellent choice, and well under budget:
https://www.vcars.co.uk/used-cars/cardetails.php?t...
https://www.vcars.co.uk/used-cars/cardetails.php?t...
MattS3 said:
Yep, definitely needs to be user (wife) friendly for the other 354 days when it wont be towing a caravan.
The 3 litre German estates are attractive but the road tax isn't that favourable on the cars in the bracket we're looking to spend.
I know it's only relative, but larger cars equals larger bills (tyres, discs, pads, suspension etc) and having 3 cars to tax and insure already, getting stuffed another £250 over and above a normal car for road tax does come into consideration. Also there is the size issue of trying to park a German barge in the supermarket car parks etc (her GTi has a few battle scars and that's not a big car)
Also have to factor in when the vehicle comes to be sold in 3 years time and is then worth buttons, no one is going to pay £4-5k for a car which costs £500 a year to tax.
For a 2005 530d (E61) tax is £285 a year. Newer versions get cheaper, down to £225 a year. Manual or auto makes no difference according to a .gov website I just checked. Bigger wheels and tyres etc on some of the SUV's you're looking at, the maintenance argument does hold water though. Another reason I'd look at an estate over a 4x4.The 3 litre German estates are attractive but the road tax isn't that favourable on the cars in the bracket we're looking to spend.
I know it's only relative, but larger cars equals larger bills (tyres, discs, pads, suspension etc) and having 3 cars to tax and insure already, getting stuffed another £250 over and above a normal car for road tax does come into consideration. Also there is the size issue of trying to park a German barge in the supermarket car parks etc (her GTi has a few battle scars and that's not a big car)
Also have to factor in when the vehicle comes to be sold in 3 years time and is then worth buttons, no one is going to pay £4-5k for a car which costs £500 a year to tax.
But on the wife front, the bigger cars will all have parking sensors (front and rear) which should make a difference. I trust SWMBO in my German barge (although in fairness she's a pretty good driver) and she loves driving it, and any chance she gets she'll take it over her much smaller car.
Also, if the vehicle doesn't have one you'll need to factor in up to £600 for a tow bar.
I went for the Westfalia detachable with Audi OEM wiring loom at about £580 fitted.
Interestingly enough I got a price from Tonbridge Audi for the exact same towbar - £1700!! And guess what? Yep - the independent guy I used does all the towbar fitting for Tonbridge Audi. Scandalous.
You can do it cheaper - fixed instead of detachable and a splice in job rather than the loom.
However, I'm sure as hell not going to let someone start chopping my electrics around and also wanted guarantees that the wiring would work with the rear parking sensors, etc.
I went for the Westfalia detachable with Audi OEM wiring loom at about £580 fitted.
Interestingly enough I got a price from Tonbridge Audi for the exact same towbar - £1700!! And guess what? Yep - the independent guy I used does all the towbar fitting for Tonbridge Audi. Scandalous.
You can do it cheaper - fixed instead of detachable and a splice in job rather than the loom.
However, I'm sure as hell not going to let someone start chopping my electrics around and also wanted guarantees that the wiring would work with the rear parking sensors, etc.
tenohfive said:
MattS3 said:
Yep, definitely needs to be user (wife) friendly for the other 354 days when it wont be towing a caravan.
The 3 litre German estates are attractive but the road tax isn't that favourable on the cars in the bracket we're looking to spend.
I know it's only relative, but larger cars equals larger bills (tyres, discs, pads, suspension etc) and having 3 cars to tax and insure already, getting stuffed another £250 over and above a normal car for road tax does come into consideration. Also there is the size issue of trying to park a German barge in the supermarket car parks etc (her GTi has a few battle scars and that's not a big car)
Also have to factor in when the vehicle comes to be sold in 3 years time and is then worth buttons, no one is going to pay £4-5k for a car which costs £500 a year to tax.
For a 2005 530d (E61) tax is £285 a year. Newer versions get cheaper, down to £225 a year. Manual or auto makes no difference according to a .gov website I just checked. Bigger wheels and tyres etc on some of the SUV's you're looking at, the maintenance argument does hold water though. Another reason I'd look at an estate over a 4x4.The 3 litre German estates are attractive but the road tax isn't that favourable on the cars in the bracket we're looking to spend.
I know it's only relative, but larger cars equals larger bills (tyres, discs, pads, suspension etc) and having 3 cars to tax and insure already, getting stuffed another £250 over and above a normal car for road tax does come into consideration. Also there is the size issue of trying to park a German barge in the supermarket car parks etc (her GTi has a few battle scars and that's not a big car)
Also have to factor in when the vehicle comes to be sold in 3 years time and is then worth buttons, no one is going to pay £4-5k for a car which costs £500 a year to tax.
But on the wife front, the bigger cars will all have parking sensors (front and rear) which should make a difference. I trust SWMBO in my German barge (although in fairness she's a pretty good driver) and she loves driving it, and any chance she gets she'll take it over her much smaller car.
I don't think the maintenance argument holds water. The big trucks are designed to "be big".
Agree with Rosscow on that towbar point.
Plenty of ways to do it cheaper but you want the ESP involvement to help with tail wagging and also ensure Parking Sensors are disabled when elecs are plugged in. Only safe way to do this is to get a vehicle specific kit.
I also had the same issue where independent charged me 500-ish both times I've had it done (first on my 550i and now on the X5) yet BMW wanted closer to 2k - yet they sub it out to caravan dealers at the same rate as I was charged by my Indy fella.
Just some corrections on the above - X5 from 2010 onwards (LCI cars) have 8-speed box - the beautiful ZF one. And yes, they are rubbish in snow on winter tyres, but a set of 18" wheels and winter rubber is much cheaper than replacing the 20" (and 315 section) tyres on the original alloys.
Gutted for Matt that none of the cheaper to tax ones come in at his budget but pleased that the residuals are still holding up so well for me!
Plenty of ways to do it cheaper but you want the ESP involvement to help with tail wagging and also ensure Parking Sensors are disabled when elecs are plugged in. Only safe way to do this is to get a vehicle specific kit.
I also had the same issue where independent charged me 500-ish both times I've had it done (first on my 550i and now on the X5) yet BMW wanted closer to 2k - yet they sub it out to caravan dealers at the same rate as I was charged by my Indy fella.
Just some corrections on the above - X5 from 2010 onwards (LCI cars) have 8-speed box - the beautiful ZF one. And yes, they are rubbish in snow on winter tyres, but a set of 18" wheels and winter rubber is much cheaper than replacing the 20" (and 315 section) tyres on the original alloys.
Gutted for Matt that none of the cheaper to tax ones come in at his budget but pleased that the residuals are still holding up so well for me!
Spuffington said:
Agree with Rosscow on that towbar point.
Plenty of ways to do it cheaper but you want the ESP involvement to help with tail wagging and also ensure Parking Sensors are disabled when elecs are plugged in. Only safe way to do this is to get a vehicle specific kit.
I also had the same issue where independent charged me 500-ish both times I've had it done (first on my 550i and now on the X5) yet BMW wanted closer to 2k - yet they sub it out to caravan dealers at the same rate as I was charged by my Indy fella.
I'm so annoyed with the people who did our ML's towbar installation. They promised it would be a vehicle-specific kit but there was definitely some "splicing" of wiring going on. I didn't know what to expect at the time, so went along with it rather grudgingly. They guy had the Mercedes STAR programmer, so I thought it would be OK but it doesn't automatically disable the parking sensors.Plenty of ways to do it cheaper but you want the ESP involvement to help with tail wagging and also ensure Parking Sensors are disabled when elecs are plugged in. Only safe way to do this is to get a vehicle specific kit.
I also had the same issue where independent charged me 500-ish both times I've had it done (first on my 550i and now on the X5) yet BMW wanted closer to 2k - yet they sub it out to caravan dealers at the same rate as I was charged by my Indy fella.
When I came to do my own Legacy, I did the work myself with a proper plug-in kit which worked as intended.
Spuffington said:
Just some corrections on the above - X5 from 2010 onwards (LCI cars) have 8-speed box - the beautiful ZF one.
That was the cross-over timeframe. Our 60-reg one had the 6-speed box but the prices of them were directly proportional to whether you had the old or the new version.Spuffington said:
And yes, they are rubbish in snow on winter tyres
Really? That's disappointing, although I guess to be expected. 10.5" wide tyres aren't ever going to "cut through" I suppose. I just hoped that a decent set of proper winters would work their magic. Sort of glad I never wasted £1400 on them now (although it would have been nice if the car hadn't been stolen too)Spuffington said:
but a set of 18" wheels and winter rubber is much cheaper than replacing the 20" (and 315 section) tyres on the original alloys.
I was finding prices for genuine BMW wheels with a set of winter tyres to be working out about the same overall, but of course replacing those winter tyres later would have been cheaper. Also, the X5s set-up for the wide wheels look a little odd on the narrower ones. Personal pref and all that. It was my wife's car anyway so I just went along with it. 
Spuffington said:
Gutted for Matt that none of the cheaper to tax ones come in at his budget but pleased that the residuals are still holding up so well for me!
Is the tax really so much of a problem in the scheme of things? Just curious if people consider it to be a factor in their calcs. It amounts to 3 1/2 tanks-full of diesel for me, which is about a month's motoring.Sorry Watchman, my writing was a bit out of kilter there. What I meant to say was that the X5 is rubbish on SUMMER tyres in snow. On winter tyres it's an amazing vehicle - very predictable and capable.
I used to run 18" style-209s on my pre-LCI X5 and I'm just about to buy another set now for this one (had a 535d and 550i in the meantime). I source them through eBay since most people tend to swap off the smaller wheels for the 20's so there's a fair few knocking around cheaply in good condition. Add to that a set of good Conti Winters and you're talking around the 1.2k mark rather than the 2k plus which BMW charge for their winter sets.
VED-wise, I've never really understood why people make such a big fuss over it (no offence, OP). I'm like you; it is a couple of tanks of fuel and a tiny percentage of the overall running costs. I was gutted when I bought my pre-LCI X5 because I didn't look into it before buying and if I'd have found a vehicle 2 months newer, it'd have been on the lower VED rate (285quid p.a.). But given I ran the 550i, the higher VED was just a fact of life and one I didn't begrudge paying..............a drop in the ocean when compared to the overall running costs.
Since someone else mentioned it - 26.6mpg is my overall average (non-towing) in the X5. I'm guessing if I had a 1.5t caravan behind me, I'd be in the realms of 18-20mpg?
I used to run 18" style-209s on my pre-LCI X5 and I'm just about to buy another set now for this one (had a 535d and 550i in the meantime). I source them through eBay since most people tend to swap off the smaller wheels for the 20's so there's a fair few knocking around cheaply in good condition. Add to that a set of good Conti Winters and you're talking around the 1.2k mark rather than the 2k plus which BMW charge for their winter sets.
VED-wise, I've never really understood why people make such a big fuss over it (no offence, OP). I'm like you; it is a couple of tanks of fuel and a tiny percentage of the overall running costs. I was gutted when I bought my pre-LCI X5 because I didn't look into it before buying and if I'd have found a vehicle 2 months newer, it'd have been on the lower VED rate (285quid p.a.). But given I ran the 550i, the higher VED was just a fact of life and one I didn't begrudge paying..............a drop in the ocean when compared to the overall running costs.
Since someone else mentioned it - 26.6mpg is my overall average (non-towing) in the X5. I'm guessing if I had a 1.5t caravan behind me, I'd be in the realms of 18-20mpg?
Spuffington said:
Sorry Watchman, my writing was a bit out of kilter there. What I meant to say was that the X5 is rubbish on SUMMER tyres in snow. On winter tyres it's an amazing vehicle - very predictable and capable.
I used to run 18" style-209s on my pre-LCI X5 and I'm just about to buy another set now for this one (had a 535d and 550i in the meantime). I source them through eBay since most people tend to swap off the smaller wheels for the 20's so there's a fair few knocking around cheaply in good condition. Add to that a set of good Conti Winters and you're talking around the 1.2k mark rather than the 2k plus which BMW charge for their winter sets.
VED-wise, I've never really understood why people make such a big fuss over it (no offence, OP). I'm like you; it is a couple of tanks of fuel and a tiny percentage of the overall running costs. I was gutted when I bought my pre-LCI X5 because I didn't look into it before buying and if I'd have found a vehicle 2 months newer, it'd have been on the lower VED rate (285quid p.a.). But given I ran the 550i, the higher VED was just a fact of life and one I didn't begrudge paying..............a drop in the ocean when compared to the overall running costs.
Since someone else mentioned it - 26.6mpg is my overall average (non-towing) in the X5. I'm guessing if I had a 1.5t caravan behind me, I'd be in the realms of 18-20mpg?
That was me - yes 26mpg on average.I used to run 18" style-209s on my pre-LCI X5 and I'm just about to buy another set now for this one (had a 535d and 550i in the meantime). I source them through eBay since most people tend to swap off the smaller wheels for the 20's so there's a fair few knocking around cheaply in good condition. Add to that a set of good Conti Winters and you're talking around the 1.2k mark rather than the 2k plus which BMW charge for their winter sets.
VED-wise, I've never really understood why people make such a big fuss over it (no offence, OP). I'm like you; it is a couple of tanks of fuel and a tiny percentage of the overall running costs. I was gutted when I bought my pre-LCI X5 because I didn't look into it before buying and if I'd have found a vehicle 2 months newer, it'd have been on the lower VED rate (285quid p.a.). But given I ran the 550i, the higher VED was just a fact of life and one I didn't begrudge paying..............a drop in the ocean when compared to the overall running costs.
Since someone else mentioned it - 26.6mpg is my overall average (non-towing) in the X5. I'm guessing if I had a 1.5t caravan behind me, I'd be in the realms of 18-20mpg?
That was with the caravan (I reckon about 1650kg?), 35kg awning, groundsheet, BBQ plus various other items in the boot, the roof box on with all sorts of stuff in, myself the wife and kids (including child seats).
Normally on that sort of run, keeping the speed sensible (70mph) I'd get about 47mpg.
Watchman said:
I'm so annoyed with the people who did our ML's towbar installation. They promised it would be a vehicle-specific kit but there was definitely some "splicing" of wiring going on. I didn't know what to expect at the time, so went along with it rather grudgingly. They guy had the Mercedes STAR programmer, so I thought it would be OK but it doesn't automatically disable the parking sensors.
That's naughty - do you actually know for certain that it engages the towing ESP programme properly?I'd have sent it back and told them to do it again - there is no way should have to manually disengage the reverse sensors and engage towing mode manually.
I'd double check that it's working as it should otherwise you're not getting the use of a potentially life saving piece of technology.
hornetrider said:
Spuffington said:
Since someone else mentioned it - 26.6mpg is my overall average (non-towing) in the X5. I'm guessing if I had a 1.5t caravan behind me, I'd be in the realms of 18-20mpg?
I'd knock 5mpg off that if I were you.Rosscow said:
hornetrider said:
Spuffington said:
Since someone else mentioned it - 26.6mpg is my overall average (non-towing) in the X5. I'm guessing if I had a 1.5t caravan behind me, I'd be in the realms of 18-20mpg?
I'd knock 5mpg off that if I were you.Rosscow said:
Watchman said:
I'm so annoyed with the people who did our ML's towbar installation. They promised it would be a vehicle-specific kit but there was definitely some "splicing" of wiring going on. I didn't know what to expect at the time, so went along with it rather grudgingly. They guy had the Mercedes STAR programmer, so I thought it would be OK but it doesn't automatically disable the parking sensors.
That's naughty - do you actually know for certain that it engages the towing ESP programme properly?I'd have sent it back and told them to do it again - there is no way should have to manually disengage the reverse sensors and engage towing mode manually.
I'd double check that it's working as it should otherwise you're not getting the use of a potentially life saving piece of technology.
I am not even sure my 08-reg W164 has towing ESP to be honest. Doesn't mention anything about the towing electrics in the car's manual. If it's just the fact that my parking sensors aren't disengaging, I could (and do) live with it.
If I'm am missing out on towing ESP, it sounds like I ought to get it looked into.
As I said though, at the time I asked for it, I didn't really know what "vehicle specific" meant. The guy assured me it was right, and he definitely plugged the new loom into the car loom in a few places but when I saw him slicing it in too, that's when I became irked and questioned him.
Watchman said:
Rosscow said:
Watchman said:
I'm so annoyed with the people who did our ML's towbar installation. They promised it would be a vehicle-specific kit but there was definitely some "splicing" of wiring going on. I didn't know what to expect at the time, so went along with it rather grudgingly. They guy had the Mercedes STAR programmer, so I thought it would be OK but it doesn't automatically disable the parking sensors.
That's naughty - do you actually know for certain that it engages the towing ESP programme properly?I'd have sent it back and told them to do it again - there is no way should have to manually disengage the reverse sensors and engage towing mode manually.
I'd double check that it's working as it should otherwise you're not getting the use of a potentially life saving piece of technology.
I am not even sure my 08-reg W164 has towing ESP to be honest. Doesn't mention anything about the towing electrics in the car's manual. If it's just the fact that my parking sensors aren't disengaging, I could (and do) live with it.
If I'm am missing out on towing ESP, it sounds like I ought to get it looked into.
As I said though, at the time I asked for it, I didn't really know what "vehicle specific" meant. The guy assured me it was right, and he definitely plugged the new loom into the car loom in a few places but when I saw him slicing it in too, that's when I became irked and questioned him.
Rosscow said:
Well my 2006 A6 has it so can only imagine a 2 year newer Mercedes would have something similar? Maybe not though!
I dunno - suggestions on some of the US forums are that it engages anti-sway and something about the self-levelling. I don't have self-levelling (mine's coil sprung) but I wouldn't be surprised if it had some system or other connected to the brakes because the brakes activate with the cruise control.I'm looking further into this.
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