Campervan Confusion: Cali vs Marco Polo vs Conversion
Discussion
Hello,
Newbie to PH as a poster. Would appreciate your thoughts on the VW California, Mercedes Marco Polo, and conversions, and other permutations of similar offerings, eg. the Westfalia Joker/Joker City and your experiences of sites, car parks, and how you use your camper van - it would really help us put our thoughts together as we decide which direction to take.
We're a couple, looking for a camper van to be both a main vehicle for one of us (not frequent driving, but when it happens it is a couple of hours), and our escape at weekends and holidays. We aim to use it a lot to get away, usually just the two of us but sometimes with others. We're new to this and also are not familiar with how things work on nice caravanning/motorhome sites, but we hear the facilities are great now. We aim to use these sites sometimes and park up in the middle of nowhere the rest of the time. At some point in the near future we will be joined by a dog!
We just don't know how much we'd use the stove, and whether using it would really fill the vehicle with smells and grease. We don't think we need a fixed loo. A shower is quite appealing but again, would we really use it? We think we want under 2 metres to get into every car park, but then we see the Joker and wonder if we should be constrained by this limit or not.
Where we are with our thinking is:
- VW California Ocean: inspected one, drove well, nice interior but not groundbreaking, felt like a nicely done van, surprised at how expensive it is, like the re-sale values (if we wanted to in 3 years), wonder if we need the 4motion to be able to go really anywhere in any conditions and have no weather stopping us
- Mercedes Marco Polo: inspected one, drove well but felt heavy and a bit sluggish, felt like a big luxurious car rather than a van, interior quality by Westfalia very high although specific styling was very bling (and maybe too lux for a dog), silly storage of chairs and table (not as smart as the VW) which wastes valuable under-bed storage at the back, not quite as expensive as the Ocean, but very concerned by plummeting re-sale values.
- Westfalia: have not inspected, don't know if they do bespoke conversions for individuals, haven't seen their Joker/Joker City and Kepler in person but website shows intriguing different layouts. Re-sale values?
- Other conversions (of VW Transporter probably): numerous names out there, not sure where to start. What are their re-sale values like?
All the above would be new/ex-demo or 1-2 years old max. Thanks.
[Edit: And awnings! Any advice? Do you set up a separate leave-behind, a separate tent or an awning]
Newbie to PH as a poster. Would appreciate your thoughts on the VW California, Mercedes Marco Polo, and conversions, and other permutations of similar offerings, eg. the Westfalia Joker/Joker City and your experiences of sites, car parks, and how you use your camper van - it would really help us put our thoughts together as we decide which direction to take.
We're a couple, looking for a camper van to be both a main vehicle for one of us (not frequent driving, but when it happens it is a couple of hours), and our escape at weekends and holidays. We aim to use it a lot to get away, usually just the two of us but sometimes with others. We're new to this and also are not familiar with how things work on nice caravanning/motorhome sites, but we hear the facilities are great now. We aim to use these sites sometimes and park up in the middle of nowhere the rest of the time. At some point in the near future we will be joined by a dog!
We just don't know how much we'd use the stove, and whether using it would really fill the vehicle with smells and grease. We don't think we need a fixed loo. A shower is quite appealing but again, would we really use it? We think we want under 2 metres to get into every car park, but then we see the Joker and wonder if we should be constrained by this limit or not.
Where we are with our thinking is:
- VW California Ocean: inspected one, drove well, nice interior but not groundbreaking, felt like a nicely done van, surprised at how expensive it is, like the re-sale values (if we wanted to in 3 years), wonder if we need the 4motion to be able to go really anywhere in any conditions and have no weather stopping us
- Mercedes Marco Polo: inspected one, drove well but felt heavy and a bit sluggish, felt like a big luxurious car rather than a van, interior quality by Westfalia very high although specific styling was very bling (and maybe too lux for a dog), silly storage of chairs and table (not as smart as the VW) which wastes valuable under-bed storage at the back, not quite as expensive as the Ocean, but very concerned by plummeting re-sale values.
- Westfalia: have not inspected, don't know if they do bespoke conversions for individuals, haven't seen their Joker/Joker City and Kepler in person but website shows intriguing different layouts. Re-sale values?
- Other conversions (of VW Transporter probably): numerous names out there, not sure where to start. What are their re-sale values like?
All the above would be new/ex-demo or 1-2 years old max. Thanks.
[Edit: And awnings! Any advice? Do you set up a separate leave-behind, a separate tent or an awning]
Edited by Meerkat1234 on Wednesday 24th January 18:06
My only advice comes from a friend who had a disaster of an experience.
Buy one already built as opposed to buying your own van and giving it to someone to convert, unless one of the reputable names that have been in business for a while.
When he saw the finished product it wasn't what he expected, the arguments began.
Buy one already built as opposed to buying your own van and giving it to someone to convert, unless one of the reputable names that have been in business for a while.
When he saw the finished product it wasn't what he expected, the arguments began.
We bought a conversion of a bog standard T5.1 Transporter in 2016, having been through similar thinking. You'll probably find more knowledge on a forum like vwcaliforniaclub.co.uk, the very active T5 section of t4forum.co.uk and thebrickyard.co.uk.
For what it's worth, I'll add my own comments here...
We'd been renting older (T2 / modern T2) conversions for about 10 years before buying our own, with my wife being far keener on our actually owning one than me. In the end, my only stipulation was that it needed to be modern.
Deciding what you want to use it for and how you will use it is critical. Neither of us commutes by car, so it made most sense as a general family vehicle. To be honest, I limited my thinking for many years by only seeing the camping aspect of a campervan, whereas in use it's just a very versatile all-round vehicle.
The van itself is a conversion by Danbury, who have the advantage of being reasonably local to us. Ours was based on what was a 3-year-old bog standard van that I suspect was on a fleet before being converted and has "barn doors" rather than a lifting tailgate. We have a fridge, sink, water storage, oven, grill, pop top (with space for 2 sleepers), 2 tables and various enclosed cupboards. The front double passenger seat swivels and the rear "rock n roll" bench seats and sleeps a further 2.
Positives:
It's been a resounding hit with our family and we could not imagine life without ours now. Ours is two-tone baby blue and white, with a very appropriate registration plate - we get loads of thumbs up and waves and absolutely zero hassles on the road. It's basically just a big version of what pre-school kids play with and I think that's reflected in everyone's attitudes to it!
It makes every journey an occasion and means we spent a lot of time extending journeys into picnics etc. There's a lot of room for day-to-day gear and it means I no longer have to fit roof bars and boxes for holidays. Everything you could want to take with you has a space. Our conversion has things like 3-pin sockets and a USB port for charging devices on the move and various nets and cubbies for books, maps, soft toys etc.
I make special mention of the practicalities of it being based on a commercial vehicle. With rubber / plastic flooring, wipe down matt-painted units (blue, natch) and generally very durable plastics and fabrics; it's a cinch to clean up after muddy activities and generally durable. The barn doors are actually better for us, as we don't have off-road parking and tailgates generally need more space behind in order to open them.
To drive...well, it's basically a low power van - but I do like it. You see so much more from the height of a van and it's pretty easy to drive once you're used to the size. Ours is the 84hp version of the 2.0TDI and I thought it would be terribly slow, but it's actually fine as long as you don't want to accelerate quickly. It also returns a frankly incredible 45mpg on a long run, although I will admit I cruise at 65mph. The fact that I haven't felt the need to remap so far tells you a lot. The 84hp is a down-tuned version of the 102 and 140hp engines - meaning that a remap (which I have booked for Monday) will literally double the power output as well as add about 50% torque.
Ours has just the minimum spec: CD player, electric windows and mirrors etc - but no air conditioning or fancy trim. You can add anything you want after market, so long as your wallet can cope - apart realistically from air con.
Finally, it was reassuring to buy ours from a converter with a very long time in the game. There are many cheaper conversions out there (including DIY re-sellers) where I would be less than confident when it came to electrics, gas installation, crash testing of seats etc.
Although we looked at California options, we basically bought a conversion as it was about 55% of the price of a new Ocean. It meant that we didn't need to borrow money.
Downsides
As I said, be very sure of your needs. Conversions vary a huge amount and, if you commission your own, you can spec it as you like.
In hindsight, I'd have a conversion with the rear seats a little closer to the front - as ours are further back. This gives a great big space in the middle of the cabin for sociable seating / changing in the dry etc, but limits the main storage space under the rear bench. It's still about 500 litres (!), but I find that I have to pack our full holiday gear into small bags so that I can squish things into this space or one of the many cupboards.
We don't use the sink at all, nor the attendant water storage and the oven is also a very occasional luxury. Together, not having these would give more space and save weight.
A tailgate would allow a 4-bike carrier rather than the 2-bike I'm limited to with barn doors, although it's only fair to add that a tow hook-mounted carrier is another solution and that large open area inside the van is also good for transporting bikes in the dry. It's also very rare to find barn doors with heated rear windows and wash / wipe, which I'd like but aren't a cost effective retrofit now that the conversion is done.
As ours started life as a basic van, it doesn't have the soundproofing and various other bits that underpin "official" / motorhome spec new conversions and Californias. I can't say I've noticed too much when driving, but driving a high quality car afterwards does feel like you are in a floating cocoon.
If you are concerned about re-sale value, then I guess you have to buy a California or one of the bigger named converters (one of the top 5-10 known "names" inc. Danbury, Bilbos, Autohaus etc). For most people, this is a once in 10-year purchase though. Anything VW does tend to retain value anecdotally, but I wouldn't want to sell ours any time soon.
Finally, do expect van costs and maintenance. They are all expensive to buy... I say there are 3 levels of crazy: DIY conversions (expensive), professional conversions (very expensive) and VW California (astronomical). They are also fairly expensive to maintain and I'm bracing myself for a cambelt service, new brake discs / pads and other consumable maintenance this year. It's not crippling, but parts are about 30-50% more expensive than for a bog standard car or similar to a bigger engined hatch like my old Golf R32 (e.g. bigger discs).
Overall
I'd thoroughly recommend one.
Have a look around and do your research, but note that the best piece of advice I got was "Just get one; they're all good".
For what it's worth, I'll add my own comments here...
We'd been renting older (T2 / modern T2) conversions for about 10 years before buying our own, with my wife being far keener on our actually owning one than me. In the end, my only stipulation was that it needed to be modern.
Deciding what you want to use it for and how you will use it is critical. Neither of us commutes by car, so it made most sense as a general family vehicle. To be honest, I limited my thinking for many years by only seeing the camping aspect of a campervan, whereas in use it's just a very versatile all-round vehicle.
The van itself is a conversion by Danbury, who have the advantage of being reasonably local to us. Ours was based on what was a 3-year-old bog standard van that I suspect was on a fleet before being converted and has "barn doors" rather than a lifting tailgate. We have a fridge, sink, water storage, oven, grill, pop top (with space for 2 sleepers), 2 tables and various enclosed cupboards. The front double passenger seat swivels and the rear "rock n roll" bench seats and sleeps a further 2.
Positives:
It's been a resounding hit with our family and we could not imagine life without ours now. Ours is two-tone baby blue and white, with a very appropriate registration plate - we get loads of thumbs up and waves and absolutely zero hassles on the road. It's basically just a big version of what pre-school kids play with and I think that's reflected in everyone's attitudes to it!
It makes every journey an occasion and means we spent a lot of time extending journeys into picnics etc. There's a lot of room for day-to-day gear and it means I no longer have to fit roof bars and boxes for holidays. Everything you could want to take with you has a space. Our conversion has things like 3-pin sockets and a USB port for charging devices on the move and various nets and cubbies for books, maps, soft toys etc.
I make special mention of the practicalities of it being based on a commercial vehicle. With rubber / plastic flooring, wipe down matt-painted units (blue, natch) and generally very durable plastics and fabrics; it's a cinch to clean up after muddy activities and generally durable. The barn doors are actually better for us, as we don't have off-road parking and tailgates generally need more space behind in order to open them.
To drive...well, it's basically a low power van - but I do like it. You see so much more from the height of a van and it's pretty easy to drive once you're used to the size. Ours is the 84hp version of the 2.0TDI and I thought it would be terribly slow, but it's actually fine as long as you don't want to accelerate quickly. It also returns a frankly incredible 45mpg on a long run, although I will admit I cruise at 65mph. The fact that I haven't felt the need to remap so far tells you a lot. The 84hp is a down-tuned version of the 102 and 140hp engines - meaning that a remap (which I have booked for Monday) will literally double the power output as well as add about 50% torque.
Ours has just the minimum spec: CD player, electric windows and mirrors etc - but no air conditioning or fancy trim. You can add anything you want after market, so long as your wallet can cope - apart realistically from air con.
Finally, it was reassuring to buy ours from a converter with a very long time in the game. There are many cheaper conversions out there (including DIY re-sellers) where I would be less than confident when it came to electrics, gas installation, crash testing of seats etc.
Although we looked at California options, we basically bought a conversion as it was about 55% of the price of a new Ocean. It meant that we didn't need to borrow money.
Downsides
As I said, be very sure of your needs. Conversions vary a huge amount and, if you commission your own, you can spec it as you like.
In hindsight, I'd have a conversion with the rear seats a little closer to the front - as ours are further back. This gives a great big space in the middle of the cabin for sociable seating / changing in the dry etc, but limits the main storage space under the rear bench. It's still about 500 litres (!), but I find that I have to pack our full holiday gear into small bags so that I can squish things into this space or one of the many cupboards.
We don't use the sink at all, nor the attendant water storage and the oven is also a very occasional luxury. Together, not having these would give more space and save weight.
A tailgate would allow a 4-bike carrier rather than the 2-bike I'm limited to with barn doors, although it's only fair to add that a tow hook-mounted carrier is another solution and that large open area inside the van is also good for transporting bikes in the dry. It's also very rare to find barn doors with heated rear windows and wash / wipe, which I'd like but aren't a cost effective retrofit now that the conversion is done.
As ours started life as a basic van, it doesn't have the soundproofing and various other bits that underpin "official" / motorhome spec new conversions and Californias. I can't say I've noticed too much when driving, but driving a high quality car afterwards does feel like you are in a floating cocoon.
If you are concerned about re-sale value, then I guess you have to buy a California or one of the bigger named converters (one of the top 5-10 known "names" inc. Danbury, Bilbos, Autohaus etc). For most people, this is a once in 10-year purchase though. Anything VW does tend to retain value anecdotally, but I wouldn't want to sell ours any time soon.
Finally, do expect van costs and maintenance. They are all expensive to buy... I say there are 3 levels of crazy: DIY conversions (expensive), professional conversions (very expensive) and VW California (astronomical). They are also fairly expensive to maintain and I'm bracing myself for a cambelt service, new brake discs / pads and other consumable maintenance this year. It's not crippling, but parts are about 30-50% more expensive than for a bog standard car or similar to a bigger engined hatch like my old Golf R32 (e.g. bigger discs).
Overall
I'd thoroughly recommend one.
Have a look around and do your research, but note that the best piece of advice I got was "Just get one; they're all good".
Edited by Basil Hume on Wednesday 24th January 22:30
Edited by Basil Hume on Wednesday 24th January 22:38
I don't have a camper, so can't (or maybe shouldn't) even comment. I think the post above is a superb bit of advice. My only main comment would be to try one out first. Rent and then decide.
I was very keen on a California for a while and whilst I never actually got around to trying one since my ex-wife decided she'd prefer a motorhome, I now wouldn't change my motorhome for the world. And although 2m height restricted car parks are off-limits, the 3.5m height of mine hasn't proved any difficulty in enjoying wild camping in some very special parts of the world. Made even better by high levels of insulation and self-sufficiency.
The common thread which came through from the poster above's comments is that of cost. Californias (and to be fair, all VW conversions, whether good or bad) are exceptioanlly expensive for what they are. In comparison, motorhomes look very good value. Clearly it's a different kind of proposition and I'm not saying you should look at getting one or even renting one to compare, but definitely rent a VW first and see whether you think you can live with it as IMO it is just camping with metal over you rather than canvas.
I'm surprised at the comment re: running costs. Maybe it's the VW tax. My base vehicles have been very cheap to service, maintain and keep on the road. I'm currently running a Sprinter on a 6t chassis and tyres are relatively cheap (ok, so needing 6-7 for a full set isn't cheap, but individually ok), VED is just 165quid and the only thing which is more expensive than running a car is the huge brake discs. But brake discs for lesser models are a lot cheaper.
All the best with your hunt and your adventures ahead!
I was very keen on a California for a while and whilst I never actually got around to trying one since my ex-wife decided she'd prefer a motorhome, I now wouldn't change my motorhome for the world. And although 2m height restricted car parks are off-limits, the 3.5m height of mine hasn't proved any difficulty in enjoying wild camping in some very special parts of the world. Made even better by high levels of insulation and self-sufficiency.
The common thread which came through from the poster above's comments is that of cost. Californias (and to be fair, all VW conversions, whether good or bad) are exceptioanlly expensive for what they are. In comparison, motorhomes look very good value. Clearly it's a different kind of proposition and I'm not saying you should look at getting one or even renting one to compare, but definitely rent a VW first and see whether you think you can live with it as IMO it is just camping with metal over you rather than canvas.
I'm surprised at the comment re: running costs. Maybe it's the VW tax. My base vehicles have been very cheap to service, maintain and keep on the road. I'm currently running a Sprinter on a 6t chassis and tyres are relatively cheap (ok, so needing 6-7 for a full set isn't cheap, but individually ok), VED is just 165quid and the only thing which is more expensive than running a car is the huge brake discs. But brake discs for lesser models are a lot cheaper.
All the best with your hunt and your adventures ahead!
We went round the houses with this for about 3 years. Bought a 3 month old Ocean last year (as a 3rd vehicle). It was the right decision. A few points to consider:
Whilst there are some good conversions out there, by the time you’re done with it, there will be no cost saving over an Ocean and it will not hold its value as well.
The hassle factor of converting a van, timescales, problems etc.
When stuff goes wrong, who fixes it? What if the converter is a long way from you?
Friends of ours have a Club Joker City, which cost £6K more than our Ocean. Been back (200 mile round trip with no courtesy vehicle) many times with roof problems and still not right. Wished they had bought an Ocean. Ours went into VW to fix a minor issue, courtesy Transporter Kombi (would have given us a Cali if we’d had a camping trip planned) and gave us a free next service for our troubles.
Most conversions are based on a 102 engine. This is a world away from the 150 in the Ocean (can get 204 if you like but unnecessary). A Cali or conversion is much heavier than a panel van.
The Ocean is based on a Caravelle, so has a much nicer and more comfortable ride and interior (premium dash etc). They are much quieter and just better to drive.
An Ocean is not cheap to buy but the total cost of ownership is very low due to the exceptional residuals. The private sale market is very strong so you don’t have to get kicked in the balls by a dealer when you sell.
When you do sell, people know what they are buying with the Ocean and have confidence in it. A conversion is much more of an unknown quantity.
The Ocean is not perfect and some dealers are much better than others for Calis, but is the best all round package available. The Merc is more of a posh picnic van IMHO and the residuals are unknown. If you are getting a dog, the Cali will be the better bet. Have a look on the VW California club site, lots of great info and reading on there as well as Calis for sale. Finally, the Cali is just about the coolest vehicle on the road (not that I’m biased!).
Hope this helps and good luck with your search!
Whilst there are some good conversions out there, by the time you’re done with it, there will be no cost saving over an Ocean and it will not hold its value as well.
The hassle factor of converting a van, timescales, problems etc.
When stuff goes wrong, who fixes it? What if the converter is a long way from you?
Friends of ours have a Club Joker City, which cost £6K more than our Ocean. Been back (200 mile round trip with no courtesy vehicle) many times with roof problems and still not right. Wished they had bought an Ocean. Ours went into VW to fix a minor issue, courtesy Transporter Kombi (would have given us a Cali if we’d had a camping trip planned) and gave us a free next service for our troubles.
Most conversions are based on a 102 engine. This is a world away from the 150 in the Ocean (can get 204 if you like but unnecessary). A Cali or conversion is much heavier than a panel van.
The Ocean is based on a Caravelle, so has a much nicer and more comfortable ride and interior (premium dash etc). They are much quieter and just better to drive.
An Ocean is not cheap to buy but the total cost of ownership is very low due to the exceptional residuals. The private sale market is very strong so you don’t have to get kicked in the balls by a dealer when you sell.
When you do sell, people know what they are buying with the Ocean and have confidence in it. A conversion is much more of an unknown quantity.
The Ocean is not perfect and some dealers are much better than others for Calis, but is the best all round package available. The Merc is more of a posh picnic van IMHO and the residuals are unknown. If you are getting a dog, the Cali will be the better bet. Have a look on the VW California club site, lots of great info and reading on there as well as Calis for sale. Finally, the Cali is just about the coolest vehicle on the road (not that I’m biased!).
Hope this helps and good luck with your search!
My parents (retired and with a dog) went the motorhome route, with a Auto-trail Tracker EKS. It's not too huge (6.4m long, 2.35m wide) but very comfortable for two and has everything they need once parked up, and more than enough storage to keep everything tucked away. The insulation and heating means they use it all year round, usually heading off for a few days at a time.
It's not something they'd go out in for the day though, and while it's at the smaller end of motorhomes it's big enough that it can't go everywhere you would in a car.
At the other end for size, I've been looking at similar and I'd written off the California as too pricey. However I've been looking at conversion costs of a T5/T6 and if you want the features they offer (decent pop roof, sliding seat/bed on rails, heating, etc) on a decent spec base van you can end up paying almost as much. If you can keep it simple though then a 2-person camper can be done for considerably less and almost all of it can be done DIY if you want, else it reduces a converter's labour time.
I'm actually thinking hard about the California Beach (after stumbling on this article - losing the kitchen and sink and furniture wouldn't be much of a problem, it saves weight and money and would let us use it as a family wagon with a huge boot, a day van for trips out, cheap overnight accommodation for my mountain bike trips and as a proper camper (probably with a big drive-away awning) for family camping. Maybe get one of the kitchen pods, plus a compressor fridge/coolbox and a portapotti (for emergencies) and be all set. Lightly used ones seem to start around £30k, and if our needs change as the kids grow we'd probably get a lot of that back.
The big camping & motorshome show is at the NEC next month, it's a good way to see a lot of options in one day, and there's plenty of converters besides Westfalia with a good reputation. There's also no end of places around the country that will rent you a California for the weekend so you can see how you get on.
It's not something they'd go out in for the day though, and while it's at the smaller end of motorhomes it's big enough that it can't go everywhere you would in a car.
At the other end for size, I've been looking at similar and I'd written off the California as too pricey. However I've been looking at conversion costs of a T5/T6 and if you want the features they offer (decent pop roof, sliding seat/bed on rails, heating, etc) on a decent spec base van you can end up paying almost as much. If you can keep it simple though then a 2-person camper can be done for considerably less and almost all of it can be done DIY if you want, else it reduces a converter's labour time.
I'm actually thinking hard about the California Beach (after stumbling on this article - losing the kitchen and sink and furniture wouldn't be much of a problem, it saves weight and money and would let us use it as a family wagon with a huge boot, a day van for trips out, cheap overnight accommodation for my mountain bike trips and as a proper camper (probably with a big drive-away awning) for family camping. Maybe get one of the kitchen pods, plus a compressor fridge/coolbox and a portapotti (for emergencies) and be all set. Lightly used ones seem to start around £30k, and if our needs change as the kids grow we'd probably get a lot of that back.
The big camping & motorshome show is at the NEC next month, it's a good way to see a lot of options in one day, and there's plenty of converters besides Westfalia with a good reputation. There's also no end of places around the country that will rent you a California for the weekend so you can see how you get on.
We hired a VW California about 5 years ago, absolutely loved the experience and we agreed if we ever got the opportunity we'd get our own camper. Cooking smells weren't an issue, you should leave a window open anyway, and it ventilates pretty quickly every time you open the door! If you stay at proper sites then a shower/toilet isn't necessary either. Plus it drives really well, more like a big car than a van, and easy to navigate down country lanes, etc. The only drawback is there isn't huge amounts of space, so if you get a dog then some sort of awning would definitely be required.
But even if I did have £40-50k I don't think I'd choose a California. I wasn't totally convinced by the build quality - we were in an almost new van and already one of the light fittings had come loose, and the swivel front seats mechanisms were very stiff and fiddly. I think a decent conversion of a standard Transporter would be as good, if not slightly better, with the added benefit of being able to customise it to your own taste. Neither option is cheap, although if you're able to do a lot of the conversion yourself then that will help (there's loads of forums out there with guides).
If we ever take the plunge it'll be a 2nd hand van, and then I'd do as much as possible myself, only getting the experts in to do the trickier tasks. I reckon £10-15k for a decent base van, and another £10k for the conversion. So probably £25k in total, but if you look at the price of 2nd hand conversions they do keep their value.
But even if I did have £40-50k I don't think I'd choose a California. I wasn't totally convinced by the build quality - we were in an almost new van and already one of the light fittings had come loose, and the swivel front seats mechanisms were very stiff and fiddly. I think a decent conversion of a standard Transporter would be as good, if not slightly better, with the added benefit of being able to customise it to your own taste. Neither option is cheap, although if you're able to do a lot of the conversion yourself then that will help (there's loads of forums out there with guides).
If we ever take the plunge it'll be a 2nd hand van, and then I'd do as much as possible myself, only getting the experts in to do the trickier tasks. I reckon £10-15k for a decent base van, and another £10k for the conversion. So probably £25k in total, but if you look at the price of 2nd hand conversions they do keep their value.
I would take no notice whatsoever that VW California owners might try to tell you, exactly as the last gentleman poster has said.
My wife and I have had various motorhomes over the last 30 years from the largest at 12mtrs right down to our smallest at 7.6mtrs which we sold last year.
However we still wanted to carry on camping with a smaller vehicle but we also wanted to have one vehicle that would do everything for us rather than have the need of 2 or 3 vehicles.
We then looked at the VW California models and went through everything trying out various parts of them, but in the end as the previous gentleman has said they are not the rolls royce that they are made out to be.
There are a lot of very flimsy parts to them, for instance catches will fall off, they have several problems with the pop top roof that is fitted to the VW Californias they corrode, there are far superior roofs available but not on a California.
If you look at several models of second hand Californias that have been well used you will see that what makes up the very narrow bed is the daily seating for passengers in the rear, the seating which you are going to have to lay on will possibly have gone wrinkly and lumpy.
So you see VW Californias are not the be all of everything VW.
I then started to look into the VW scene a lot deeper after that and when you look there are loads and loads of converters who will do all sorts of conversions and will do them to suit what your requirements are.
There are 2 main montly magazines one is called VW Bus the other is called VWT, both are very similar they come out around the 20th of each month can be bought through you local newsagents or Tesco or you can order online subscription, and through the magazines you will see the various conversions and also home converters, plus of course the different pop top roof manufacturers, the different rock & roll bed, the fixed beds etc.
In the end you can have whatever you want and ignore anyone who tells you that your van will not be insulated, in fact it will in all probability be better insulated than any commercially sold van.
I personally didn’t want to have a kitchen fitted down the side of the inside of my van as it would 1, make my bed width narrower, 2, I didn’t want kitchen cooking smells in the van and I wanted a full width bed.
So I went to a different company in Devon and my van will be fully insulated with various electrics, a Solar Roof Panel, 2 Batteries 1 Leisure & 1Engine battery, a VW approved pop top roof,Full width bed and day seat, but it will not get baggy as it will turn over from bed to seat and vice versa, also it will have a removable kitchen pod that will have a small sink & cooker that can either stay in the rear of the van when the tailgate is open or can be removed and used outside, it will also have a watertank and most important heating for those cold winter camping days and nights if I wish.
Hope that this helps, it is and can be a mindfield out there, but there are lots of options.
Enjoy and have fun.
My wife and I have had various motorhomes over the last 30 years from the largest at 12mtrs right down to our smallest at 7.6mtrs which we sold last year.
However we still wanted to carry on camping with a smaller vehicle but we also wanted to have one vehicle that would do everything for us rather than have the need of 2 or 3 vehicles.
We then looked at the VW California models and went through everything trying out various parts of them, but in the end as the previous gentleman has said they are not the rolls royce that they are made out to be.
There are a lot of very flimsy parts to them, for instance catches will fall off, they have several problems with the pop top roof that is fitted to the VW Californias they corrode, there are far superior roofs available but not on a California.
If you look at several models of second hand Californias that have been well used you will see that what makes up the very narrow bed is the daily seating for passengers in the rear, the seating which you are going to have to lay on will possibly have gone wrinkly and lumpy.
So you see VW Californias are not the be all of everything VW.
I then started to look into the VW scene a lot deeper after that and when you look there are loads and loads of converters who will do all sorts of conversions and will do them to suit what your requirements are.
There are 2 main montly magazines one is called VW Bus the other is called VWT, both are very similar they come out around the 20th of each month can be bought through you local newsagents or Tesco or you can order online subscription, and through the magazines you will see the various conversions and also home converters, plus of course the different pop top roof manufacturers, the different rock & roll bed, the fixed beds etc.
In the end you can have whatever you want and ignore anyone who tells you that your van will not be insulated, in fact it will in all probability be better insulated than any commercially sold van.
I personally didn’t want to have a kitchen fitted down the side of the inside of my van as it would 1, make my bed width narrower, 2, I didn’t want kitchen cooking smells in the van and I wanted a full width bed.
So I went to a different company in Devon and my van will be fully insulated with various electrics, a Solar Roof Panel, 2 Batteries 1 Leisure & 1Engine battery, a VW approved pop top roof,Full width bed and day seat, but it will not get baggy as it will turn over from bed to seat and vice versa, also it will have a removable kitchen pod that will have a small sink & cooker that can either stay in the rear of the van when the tailgate is open or can be removed and used outside, it will also have a watertank and most important heating for those cold winter camping days and nights if I wish.
Hope that this helps, it is and can be a mindfield out there, but there are lots of options.
Enjoy and have fun.
Can’t believe I’m posting on this thread a week later with such a different take on this. Spent yesterday pouring all over a Westfalia Jules Verne Merc which my Uncle and Aunt were intending on buying to supplement their Morelo Loft which itself is replacing their Hymer S820 Starline S.
Long story short, the Merc was too small and cramped but myself and the girlfriend got very interested in the Keplar One which seemed to have useful additional space created by the extra 16cm length and the way the roof mechanism sat higher (but more low profile) than the Merc.
Anyway, after lots of mulling, lying down, pushing and pulling at things, testdriving and chatting: she’s going to buy one. Currently on a search for a brand new with the 150bhp Euro6 with DSG and nav. A couple for sale in Germany which we’re negotiating on. Hopefully have one sorted soon so we can have weekends away in Germany over the next 18 months whilst we’re there.
Thing which swung it for us:
- sub-2m height means accessibility to secluded spots
- great lounging area for two but capacity for four if squeezed in
- onboard Thetford toilet for ultimate self sufficiency
- Westfalia build quality is very good on fixtures and fittings and thought gone into storage solutions
- VW Transporter drives beautifully with DSG and 150ps engine
- residuals. We’ll be buying in Germany and may well sell in the UK afterwards. Hold their value supremely well.
Very excited and can see another ownership and adventure thread coming on! Yes it’s mad having Carrie and a camper but they cover two very separate bases and with one being my home in the Uk and the other being based in Frankfurt for European excursions, we have the best of both worlds.
Long story short, the Merc was too small and cramped but myself and the girlfriend got very interested in the Keplar One which seemed to have useful additional space created by the extra 16cm length and the way the roof mechanism sat higher (but more low profile) than the Merc.
Anyway, after lots of mulling, lying down, pushing and pulling at things, testdriving and chatting: she’s going to buy one. Currently on a search for a brand new with the 150bhp Euro6 with DSG and nav. A couple for sale in Germany which we’re negotiating on. Hopefully have one sorted soon so we can have weekends away in Germany over the next 18 months whilst we’re there.
Thing which swung it for us:
- sub-2m height means accessibility to secluded spots
- great lounging area for two but capacity for four if squeezed in
- onboard Thetford toilet for ultimate self sufficiency
- Westfalia build quality is very good on fixtures and fittings and thought gone into storage solutions
- VW Transporter drives beautifully with DSG and 150ps engine
- residuals. We’ll be buying in Germany and may well sell in the UK afterwards. Hold their value supremely well.
Very excited and can see another ownership and adventure thread coming on! Yes it’s mad having Carrie and a camper but they cover two very separate bases and with one being my home in the Uk and the other being based in Frankfurt for European excursions, we have the best of both worlds.
One of my close friends built his own camper a few years ago and loved the experience so much he started his own business converting VW transporters, he's constantly busy now with work coming through and knowing him as I do I know he's a stickler for detail and doesn't use cheap materials or components as they're more trouble than they're worth.
He tends to buy a donor van and build to a customers spec, or if the customer has a van he just converts etc. Usual turnaround is about 4 weeks from start to finish depending upon spec.
He's got a website with a few examples - https://freedomconversions.co.uk/ and there's also an FB page, might be worth a look for ideas or give him a shout.
He tends to buy a donor van and build to a customers spec, or if the customer has a van he just converts etc. Usual turnaround is about 4 weeks from start to finish depending upon spec.
He's got a website with a few examples - https://freedomconversions.co.uk/ and there's also an FB page, might be worth a look for ideas or give him a shout.
Spuffington said:
Can’t believe I’m posting on this thread a week later with such a different take on this. Spent yesterday pouring all over a Westfalia Jules Verne Merc which my Uncle and Aunt were intending on buying to supplement their Morelo Loft which itself is replacing their Hymer S820 Starline S.
Long story short, the Merc was too small and cramped but myself and the girlfriend got very interested in the Keplar One which seemed to have useful additional space created by the extra 16cm length and the way the roof mechanism sat higher (but more low profile) than the Merc.
Anyway, after lots of mulling, lying down, pushing and pulling at things, testdriving and chatting: she’s going to buy one. Currently on a search for a brand new with the 150bhp Euro6 with DSG and nav. A couple for sale in Germany which we’re negotiating on. Hopefully have one sorted soon so we can have weekends away in Germany over the next 18 months whilst we’re there.
Thing which swung it for us:
- sub-2m height means accessibility to secluded spots
- great lounging area for two but capacity for four if squeezed in
- onboard Thetford toilet for ultimate self sufficiency
- Westfalia build quality is very good on fixtures and fittings and thought gone into storage solutions
- VW Transporter drives beautifully with DSG and 150ps engine
- residuals. We’ll be buying in Germany and may well sell in the UK afterwards. Hold their value supremely well.
Very excited and can see another ownership and adventure thread coming on! Yes it’s mad having Carrie and a camper but they cover two very separate bases and with one being my home in the Uk and the other being based in Frankfurt for European excursions, we have the best of both worlds.
Looks an intreguing design, congrats! Worlds away from 99% of the conversions out there, enjoy! Long story short, the Merc was too small and cramped but myself and the girlfriend got very interested in the Keplar One which seemed to have useful additional space created by the extra 16cm length and the way the roof mechanism sat higher (but more low profile) than the Merc.
Anyway, after lots of mulling, lying down, pushing and pulling at things, testdriving and chatting: she’s going to buy one. Currently on a search for a brand new with the 150bhp Euro6 with DSG and nav. A couple for sale in Germany which we’re negotiating on. Hopefully have one sorted soon so we can have weekends away in Germany over the next 18 months whilst we’re there.
Thing which swung it for us:
- sub-2m height means accessibility to secluded spots
- great lounging area for two but capacity for four if squeezed in
- onboard Thetford toilet for ultimate self sufficiency
- Westfalia build quality is very good on fixtures and fittings and thought gone into storage solutions
- VW Transporter drives beautifully with DSG and 150ps engine
- residuals. We’ll be buying in Germany and may well sell in the UK afterwards. Hold their value supremely well.
Very excited and can see another ownership and adventure thread coming on! Yes it’s mad having Carrie and a camper but they cover two very separate bases and with one being my home in the Uk and the other being based in Frankfurt for European excursions, we have the best of both worlds.
Spuffington said:
Can’t believe I’m posting on this thread a week later with such a different take on this. Spent yesterday pouring all over a Westfalia Jules Verne Merc which my Uncle and Aunt were intending on buying to supplement their Morelo Loft which itself is replacing their Hymer S820 Starline S.
Long story short, the Merc was too small and cramped but myself and the girlfriend got very interested in the Keplar One which seemed to have useful additional space created by the extra 16cm length and the way the roof mechanism sat higher (but more low profile) than the Merc.
Anyway, after lots of mulling, lying down, pushing and pulling at things, testdriving and chatting: she’s going to buy one. Currently on a search for a brand new with the 150bhp Euro6 with DSG and nav. A couple for sale in Germany which we’re negotiating on. Hopefully have one sorted soon so we can have weekends away in Germany over the next 18 months whilst we’re there.
Thing which swung it for us:
- sub-2m height means accessibility to secluded spots
- great lounging area for two but capacity for four if squeezed in
- onboard Thetford toilet for ultimate self sufficiency
- Westfalia build quality is very good on fixtures and fittings and thought gone into storage solutions
- VW Transporter drives beautifully with DSG and 150ps engine
- residuals. We’ll be buying in Germany and may well sell in the UK afterwards. Hold their value supremely well.
Very excited and can see another ownership and adventure thread coming on! Yes it’s mad having Carrie and a camper but they cover two very separate bases and with one being my home in the Uk and the other being based in Frankfurt for European excursions, we have the best of both worlds.
Well done, it looks really well thought out, I did look at a Marco Polo based on the Vito some time ago at the Dusseldorf show but really wanted a 4motion, in the end didn’t buy a 4motion but a new 204dsg petrol.Long story short, the Merc was too small and cramped but myself and the girlfriend got very interested in the Keplar One which seemed to have useful additional space created by the extra 16cm length and the way the roof mechanism sat higher (but more low profile) than the Merc.
Anyway, after lots of mulling, lying down, pushing and pulling at things, testdriving and chatting: she’s going to buy one. Currently on a search for a brand new with the 150bhp Euro6 with DSG and nav. A couple for sale in Germany which we’re negotiating on. Hopefully have one sorted soon so we can have weekends away in Germany over the next 18 months whilst we’re there.
Thing which swung it for us:
- sub-2m height means accessibility to secluded spots
- great lounging area for two but capacity for four if squeezed in
- onboard Thetford toilet for ultimate self sufficiency
- Westfalia build quality is very good on fixtures and fittings and thought gone into storage solutions
- VW Transporter drives beautifully with DSG and 150ps engine
- residuals. We’ll be buying in Germany and may well sell in the UK afterwards. Hold their value supremely well.
Very excited and can see another ownership and adventure thread coming on! Yes it’s mad having Carrie and a camper but they cover two very separate bases and with one being my home in the Uk and the other being based in Frankfurt for European excursions, we have the best of both worlds.
Will be interesting to look at at this years Dusseldorf show end of August ( must leave my wallet at home this year )
Glad to see that live is moving on for you now.
KT
Coming from the experience of a self build, I'd sit down and think long and hard about what you'll use it for and how you will use it.
I decided pretty early on that I didnt want a rock & roll bed, due to the lack of storage. I ended up building a side bed with a kitchen unit on the sliding door side and it was great at being able to take long loads (matresses, bikes, wood etc) without coming into any contact with the bed. If you are going for a rock & roll, look at the design. If its comfy to travel on, is it equally comfy to sleep on? If you're not looking to take passengers, then a flatter profiled bed will probably provide a better nights sleep.
The kitchen area is equally important. Chest fridges can get a lot in and arguably more than what a conventional fridge can in the same space. Do you want to cook inside the van? If you're going anywhere hot, the last thing you want is to be cooking when the van is in the 30's, only heating it up further. Additionally, the smells of cooking can linger for a while. Look at a portable option if you want the best of both worlds. In essence, those small cookers with independent canisters do a decent job. The CampingGaz ones come with an auto shutoff to prevent a gas escape if the flame goes out.
Will you want to wash? Do you need grey waste taking up space or would it be better to just have water outside?
How will you heat the van if required? An Erberspacher diesel heater will be a great buy and something I would have had if i'd kept mine.
Lots of choice, pick a good converter if you dont want to do it yourself. The conversions are lovely and in a lot of cases, in very good condition but you could get exactly the same experience by spending half the price.
I decided pretty early on that I didnt want a rock & roll bed, due to the lack of storage. I ended up building a side bed with a kitchen unit on the sliding door side and it was great at being able to take long loads (matresses, bikes, wood etc) without coming into any contact with the bed. If you are going for a rock & roll, look at the design. If its comfy to travel on, is it equally comfy to sleep on? If you're not looking to take passengers, then a flatter profiled bed will probably provide a better nights sleep.
The kitchen area is equally important. Chest fridges can get a lot in and arguably more than what a conventional fridge can in the same space. Do you want to cook inside the van? If you're going anywhere hot, the last thing you want is to be cooking when the van is in the 30's, only heating it up further. Additionally, the smells of cooking can linger for a while. Look at a portable option if you want the best of both worlds. In essence, those small cookers with independent canisters do a decent job. The CampingGaz ones come with an auto shutoff to prevent a gas escape if the flame goes out.
Will you want to wash? Do you need grey waste taking up space or would it be better to just have water outside?
How will you heat the van if required? An Erberspacher diesel heater will be a great buy and something I would have had if i'd kept mine.
Lots of choice, pick a good converter if you dont want to do it yourself. The conversions are lovely and in a lot of cases, in very good condition but you could get exactly the same experience by spending half the price.
Nothing helpful to add about your potential choice of van (I run an old-school T4 Transporter with an Auto-Sleeper conversion) but a few thoughts from nine years of use:
For me the best thing about a camper van is that you don't have to go to "nice caravanning/motorhome sites" - but each to their own.
Two-ring hob and a grill non-negotiable for me. Tea and toast in the middle of nowhere! Yes, frying kippers would stink the place out, but boiling some pasta, reheating one-pot meals from your freezer etc really isn't messy or smelly.
Also a sink is a great help. Water on tap, plus a place for brushing teeth, having a quick freshen up, washing cups and plates etc. No, not necessary in the height of summer, but definitely at other times of year. Also good during days out etc when not on a campsite.
Mine has a high top so falls foul of 2m height barriers. In 9 years of ownership this has never once caused a significant problem. Have had to drive past a handful of car parks but literally that's it. Also, being able to stand up in the back at all times does a lot for usability/comfort.
Fixed toilet and/or shower takes you away from campervan territory into the world of motorhomes, with the associated costs and size being the trade-off for luxury. Such vehicles are less suitable as daily drivers.
Ours is usually a base for 2 adults and 2 kids, so a drive-away awning is a must. We don't bother if it's just the 2 of us. Some couples like the side-mounted pull-out ones.
Finally, you WILL use your campervan less often than you think.
For me the best thing about a camper van is that you don't have to go to "nice caravanning/motorhome sites" - but each to their own.
Two-ring hob and a grill non-negotiable for me. Tea and toast in the middle of nowhere! Yes, frying kippers would stink the place out, but boiling some pasta, reheating one-pot meals from your freezer etc really isn't messy or smelly.
Also a sink is a great help. Water on tap, plus a place for brushing teeth, having a quick freshen up, washing cups and plates etc. No, not necessary in the height of summer, but definitely at other times of year. Also good during days out etc when not on a campsite.
Mine has a high top so falls foul of 2m height barriers. In 9 years of ownership this has never once caused a significant problem. Have had to drive past a handful of car parks but literally that's it. Also, being able to stand up in the back at all times does a lot for usability/comfort.
Fixed toilet and/or shower takes you away from campervan territory into the world of motorhomes, with the associated costs and size being the trade-off for luxury. Such vehicles are less suitable as daily drivers.
Ours is usually a base for 2 adults and 2 kids, so a drive-away awning is a must. We don't bother if it's just the 2 of us. Some couples like the side-mounted pull-out ones.
Finally, you WILL use your campervan less often than you think.
Spuffington said:
...... got very interested in the Keplar One which seemed to have useful additional space created by the extra 16cm length and the way the roof mechanism sat higher (but more low profile) than the Merc.
They look AMAZING...but are they really in the region of £60K+ ?? http://www.harbourcreek.co.uk/listings/new-westfal... as a UK example!
I harbour dreams of creating my own wagon one day....would love something that plush, but that's more than I paid for my second house, never mind my first!
I hired a California a year back. Great in general but the sliding door is on the road side, not the kerb side. For that reason alone I would buy a standard van for the UK and convert. Maybe great for travelling in Europe but not so good when travelling in the UK.
The guy that hired them said the one I had was just out of warranty when the roof bellows needed replacing (and expensive).
The guy that hired them said the one I had was just out of warranty when the roof bellows needed replacing (and expensive).
Well, we're nearly there - contract drafted and a bit of negotiation to include mosquito nets on the side and rear door, second habitation battery and winter insulation panels for the pop-roof sides. Deposit will be paid today and then we need to figure out all the bureaucracy regarding registering the thing. Dealer is paying for the first 5 days registration and plates to get us back to Frankfurt but then a trip to the "Autoamt" will be required to procure plates for my girlfriend and get the vehicle officially registered in Frankfurt. Also need to sort out the best way of getting winter reifen. We're right on the cusp of the change-over here in Germany by the time we collect but a potential ski trip to Austria would mean we need to source some and trying to work out whether it's better getting them sorted with the dealer or getting them from ATS Euromaster once we get back to Frankfurt.
Van comes in at EUR 60k, so not cheap but they hold their value superbly here in Europe and are in high demand. Waiting list is c. 9 months so I have no doubt that it will hold its value well over the near term. I would also normally baulk at 60k for a camper, but the fit and finish and general build quality is superb and there's no way that it would be purchased had it not have had the additional flexibility of having an onboard toilet and potential to shower.
Looks like collection will be second week of March. It's technically almost ready to go, but neither of us can take the time off work to get down there beforehand for any meaningful period of time. We want to have at least two nights in it near the dealer in the event we spot something which needs fixing. The dealer is 3hrs from Frankfurt so can't really afford to keep schlepping back.
Very exciting though! Already sat down last night with Google maps and planned trips as far afield as Lake Como & Dutch Coast to shorter ones like Nurburgring (Eiffel Mountains), Luxembourg, Freiburg, Konstanz, Heidelburg. Can't wait to get on the road and do some "camping" again.
I'll probably open another thread once we take delivery.
Van comes in at EUR 60k, so not cheap but they hold their value superbly here in Europe and are in high demand. Waiting list is c. 9 months so I have no doubt that it will hold its value well over the near term. I would also normally baulk at 60k for a camper, but the fit and finish and general build quality is superb and there's no way that it would be purchased had it not have had the additional flexibility of having an onboard toilet and potential to shower.
Looks like collection will be second week of March. It's technically almost ready to go, but neither of us can take the time off work to get down there beforehand for any meaningful period of time. We want to have at least two nights in it near the dealer in the event we spot something which needs fixing. The dealer is 3hrs from Frankfurt so can't really afford to keep schlepping back.
Very exciting though! Already sat down last night with Google maps and planned trips as far afield as Lake Como & Dutch Coast to shorter ones like Nurburgring (Eiffel Mountains), Luxembourg, Freiburg, Konstanz, Heidelburg. Can't wait to get on the road and do some "camping" again.
I'll probably open another thread once we take delivery.
sjg said:
I'm actually thinking hard about the California Beach (after stumbling on this article - losing the kitchen and sink and furniture wouldn't be much of a problem, it saves weight and money and would let us use it as a family wagon with a huge boot, a day van for trips out, cheap overnight accommodation for my mountain bike trips and as a proper camper (probably with a big drive-away awning) for family camping. Maybe get one of the kitchen pods, plus a compressor fridge/coolbox and a portapotti (for emergencies) and be all set. Lightly used ones seem to start around £30k, and if our needs change as the kids grow we'd probably get a lot of that back.
I read the same article and have the same thoughts. A lad at work has a new Ocean and it's lovely. For me though, I'd not want to be away for more than a couple for days in something smaller than a motorhome so a kitchen isn't really needed. You could take some food with you or eat out. I love the idea of sticking the bikes on the back with my sons, heading to the Lakes and making a day/night of it and heading home again. I don't do many miles so if I got one, it would be my short commuter car too and I'd have to ditch the fun of my hyper hatch but the quality family time you could have is making me want to look into one more... Wow, thank you all - your posts have been fantastic. Sorry I couldn't reply before to thank you, I tried but pistonheads was blocking posts from new members because of some posting abuse issue.
I can't see all the posts as I write this so can't name posters individually, but really the insight you have offered is amazing. This has raised so many questions and will guide us as we think about what to do next.
We actually first went to a motorhome show last year and thought, yep, a motorhome is for us. We liked a Swift 685 (or something like that) - it was basic, not too big, ok value, a good intro this world. Thoughts then turned to having something that would get into every car park, park in any lay-by, and be useful as a day to day car too, be a mobile office too, so we checked out the Californias (not knowing anything about the Cali cult!).
Now - crumbs. So much to think about and work out. We just don't know if some things are important to us or not, renting one out is definitely a good idea. We also saw a Kepler One on the Harbour Creek site (by tracing Westfalia) and are intrigued by the layout. We'll be at Birmingham NEC in a few weeks time.
So we're sort of here:
- never thought we'd need a toilet, still feel that's a bit beyond our requirements, don't really fancy lugging that around with us all the time, but well-thought out layouts seem to have one so..?
- likewise really for the shower, just don't know how much we'd use it. We aim to be on nice sites but also in the middle of the woods and anywhere with a great view, park by the sea etc, so maybe that's a good thing to have?
- seem to be mixed views here on whether conversions lose their value or keep their value - will check out the magazines recommended and the forums
- great point about who fixes what with conversions and the drive to get them fixed, hadn't thought of that at all
- the Ocean seems just so jolly expensive for what it is - but then again the VW service etc may be worth it, still undecided. The trim is OK, but we'd like better seats (sitting in that Marco Polo has spoiled us I think), can we upgrade?
- we wonder about the Beach and using kitchen pods etc, maybe false economy when compared to a blank Transporter conversion
- we have heard lots about problems with California roof canopies and don't know whether that's a big enough thing to put us off, or not (shouldn't be happening at all - why don't they sort it out?)
- there is a tiny part of our minds that wonders if we'll go to the NEC in a few weeks and be bowled over by the size and relative affordability of motorhomes again and change our mind altogether. It's a very small part I hasten to add, and has all sorts of inconveniences, hassle and cost (ie still need to get another car then) associated with doing that, but just putting it out there, it's not totally off the table.
- we have been thinking we must get something under 2 metres for car parks; I'm surprised to hear it hasn't been that much of a hassle for some of you choosing the high top. I'm keen to understand this more - can you get into supermarket car parks on the continent and UK (underground and above ground), if you stop at NT properties in the UK is that OK, if you see a car park abroad and you want to go for a hike is that OK, etc?
Also, does anyone else buy one through their company, use it for both personal and work use (as I said, this would be a mobile office too) and claim back the VAT? We've heard mixed reports of doing this.
Thank you again for such insightful posts and we appreciate the time you've obviously taken to pass on your experiences and knowledge. It is really a great help.
I can't see all the posts as I write this so can't name posters individually, but really the insight you have offered is amazing. This has raised so many questions and will guide us as we think about what to do next.
We actually first went to a motorhome show last year and thought, yep, a motorhome is for us. We liked a Swift 685 (or something like that) - it was basic, not too big, ok value, a good intro this world. Thoughts then turned to having something that would get into every car park, park in any lay-by, and be useful as a day to day car too, be a mobile office too, so we checked out the Californias (not knowing anything about the Cali cult!).
Now - crumbs. So much to think about and work out. We just don't know if some things are important to us or not, renting one out is definitely a good idea. We also saw a Kepler One on the Harbour Creek site (by tracing Westfalia) and are intrigued by the layout. We'll be at Birmingham NEC in a few weeks time.
So we're sort of here:
- never thought we'd need a toilet, still feel that's a bit beyond our requirements, don't really fancy lugging that around with us all the time, but well-thought out layouts seem to have one so..?
- likewise really for the shower, just don't know how much we'd use it. We aim to be on nice sites but also in the middle of the woods and anywhere with a great view, park by the sea etc, so maybe that's a good thing to have?
- seem to be mixed views here on whether conversions lose their value or keep their value - will check out the magazines recommended and the forums
- great point about who fixes what with conversions and the drive to get them fixed, hadn't thought of that at all
- the Ocean seems just so jolly expensive for what it is - but then again the VW service etc may be worth it, still undecided. The trim is OK, but we'd like better seats (sitting in that Marco Polo has spoiled us I think), can we upgrade?
- we wonder about the Beach and using kitchen pods etc, maybe false economy when compared to a blank Transporter conversion
- we have heard lots about problems with California roof canopies and don't know whether that's a big enough thing to put us off, or not (shouldn't be happening at all - why don't they sort it out?)
- there is a tiny part of our minds that wonders if we'll go to the NEC in a few weeks and be bowled over by the size and relative affordability of motorhomes again and change our mind altogether. It's a very small part I hasten to add, and has all sorts of inconveniences, hassle and cost (ie still need to get another car then) associated with doing that, but just putting it out there, it's not totally off the table.
- we have been thinking we must get something under 2 metres for car parks; I'm surprised to hear it hasn't been that much of a hassle for some of you choosing the high top. I'm keen to understand this more - can you get into supermarket car parks on the continent and UK (underground and above ground), if you stop at NT properties in the UK is that OK, if you see a car park abroad and you want to go for a hike is that OK, etc?
Also, does anyone else buy one through their company, use it for both personal and work use (as I said, this would be a mobile office too) and claim back the VAT? We've heard mixed reports of doing this.
Thank you again for such insightful posts and we appreciate the time you've obviously taken to pass on your experiences and knowledge. It is really a great help.
Gassing Station | Tents, Caravans & Motorhomes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff