Towbars and towing
Discussion
Hi all
I'm wandering dangerously into the caravaning world just now as i'm being gifted one to use for a year or two whilst the kids are small. I'm 35 years old so i'm on 3500kg towing limits. The car and van combination has a MAM of 3450kg so all good there. I would most likely tow it with my wife's Qashqai, as my Accord Tourer is an auto and i've read a few stories of owners suggesting the addition of an oil cooler is necessary so the auto box doesn;t suffer damage?
The qashqai is 1431kg kerb weight, so 85% of this is 1216kg, the caravan weighs 1200 in running order so i'm ok for the 85% recommendation (i know it's not a rule). The van is twin axle so i think this helps with stability? If i evenly load the personal effects between car and van then i should stay ok from a stability standpoint.
The question is, what towbar to get? As i'm inexperienced at towing i assume going for something that has anti sway etc in it? Is there any particular brand to go for? I don't know anything about caravans and brakes, I assume there's some form of weight switch in the caravan which applies the brakes when the weight transfers forward?
Any useful infomration about towbars or towing greatly appreciated.
I'm wandering dangerously into the caravaning world just now as i'm being gifted one to use for a year or two whilst the kids are small. I'm 35 years old so i'm on 3500kg towing limits. The car and van combination has a MAM of 3450kg so all good there. I would most likely tow it with my wife's Qashqai, as my Accord Tourer is an auto and i've read a few stories of owners suggesting the addition of an oil cooler is necessary so the auto box doesn;t suffer damage?
The qashqai is 1431kg kerb weight, so 85% of this is 1216kg, the caravan weighs 1200 in running order so i'm ok for the 85% recommendation (i know it's not a rule). The van is twin axle so i think this helps with stability? If i evenly load the personal effects between car and van then i should stay ok from a stability standpoint.
The question is, what towbar to get? As i'm inexperienced at towing i assume going for something that has anti sway etc in it? Is there any particular brand to go for? I don't know anything about caravans and brakes, I assume there's some form of weight switch in the caravan which applies the brakes when the weight transfers forward?
Any useful infomration about towbars or towing greatly appreciated.
It's all pretty easy when you get into it so don't be daunted
The brakes are taken care of by the caravan hitch / head and requires nothing from your car
Your main decision on tow bars is whether you want it to be removable for cosmetic reasons when not required, there is the cheap fixed type or the electric self-stowing type for £££ and all points in between
Transmission oil cooler seems like overkill but check the car's recommended maximum towing weight for a go-by.
The main thing as you have already identified is keeping the MAM or the combo below 3.5t.
P.S. never come across an anti-sway system but have known scores of people to tow without so I suspect that it's not necessary if you load the van and the towbar sensibly (check your noseweight)
Check the tyres and brakes on your caravan if it hasn't been done recently, they tend to sit around most of the year so the tyres rot and the brakes rust long before they'll wear out. Satisfy yourself this is all hunky dory. Grease the nipples, bearings and hitch.
Think about security, a hitch lock and wheel clamp might be prudent.
The brakes are taken care of by the caravan hitch / head and requires nothing from your car
Your main decision on tow bars is whether you want it to be removable for cosmetic reasons when not required, there is the cheap fixed type or the electric self-stowing type for £££ and all points in between
Transmission oil cooler seems like overkill but check the car's recommended maximum towing weight for a go-by.
The main thing as you have already identified is keeping the MAM or the combo below 3.5t.
P.S. never come across an anti-sway system but have known scores of people to tow without so I suspect that it's not necessary if you load the van and the towbar sensibly (check your noseweight)
Check the tyres and brakes on your caravan if it hasn't been done recently, they tend to sit around most of the year so the tyres rot and the brakes rust long before they'll wear out. Satisfy yourself this is all hunky dory. Grease the nipples, bearings and hitch.
Think about security, a hitch lock and wheel clamp might be prudent.
Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 31st May 13:01
Get a witter towbar.
What age is the caravan and what chassis is it on?
The 'anti-sway' is usually built onto the caravan hitch and consists of friction pads that grip the towball.
The caravan brakes activate when the hitch compresses, ie you are braking. As the hitch compresses the brakes on the caravan are applied.
What age is the caravan and what chassis is it on?
The 'anti-sway' is usually built onto the caravan hitch and consists of friction pads that grip the towball.
The caravan brakes activate when the hitch compresses, ie you are braking. As the hitch compresses the brakes on the caravan are applied.
S100HP said:
Well I never knew that! Good news!
I think they changed the rules recently(ish). When we passed our tests we could either tow:A trailer of up to 750kg behind a vehicle of up to 3500kg; or
A trailer of over 750kg assuming the combined MAM of the two is less than 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer is less than the unladen weight of the car.
I believe the change was to remove the second condition of the second rule (the bit which I've highlighted in bold).
Even if you don't need a tow test - it would definitely be worth getting a lesson or two - towing is not as simple as it looks:
- reversing
- hitching up
- turning sharp corners
- stopping the caravan from snaking
- managing the extra width / length
- driving in urban settings
- motorways
- etc.
issues with caravans come from lack of experience / knowledge / ability
if you are taking young children, make sure you know what you are doing
- reversing
- hitching up
- turning sharp corners
- stopping the caravan from snaking
- managing the extra width / length
- driving in urban settings
- motorways
- etc.
issues with caravans come from lack of experience / knowledge / ability
if you are taking young children, make sure you know what you are doing
Sixpackpert said:
Get a witter towbar.
What age is the caravan and what chassis is it on?
The 'anti-sway' is usually built onto the caravan hitch and consists of friction pads that grip the towball.
The caravan brakes activate when the hitch compresses, ie you are braking. As the hitch compresses the brakes on the caravan are applied.
The caravan is a 1996 Swift Conqueror 550. It's in great condition as my father in law has used it for the last 5 years (in summer) in place of hotels when he works away 3-6 weeks at a time. He runs a small engineering firm and so they give it the going over regularly. I don't think this van has any anti sway feature in the tow hook though, the fella who tows it everywhere said "get a tow bar with anti sway". What age is the caravan and what chassis is it on?
The 'anti-sway' is usually built onto the caravan hitch and consists of friction pads that grip the towball.
The caravan brakes activate when the hitch compresses, ie you are braking. As the hitch compresses the brakes on the caravan are applied.
akirk said:
Even if you don't need a tow test - it would definitely be worth getting a lesson or two - towing is not as simple as it looks:
- reversing
- hitching up
- turning sharp corners
- stopping the caravan from snaking
- managing the extra width / length
- driving in urban settings
- motorways
- etc.
issues with caravans come from lack of experience / knowledge / ability
if you are taking young children, make sure you know what you are doing
If i get lessons i guess i might as well spend the £400 and pass the towing test! Lessons will surely come to half that for 3-4 hours- reversing
- hitching up
- turning sharp corners
- stopping the caravan from snaking
- managing the extra width / length
- driving in urban settings
- motorways
- etc.
issues with caravans come from lack of experience / knowledge / ability
if you are taking young children, make sure you know what you are doing
eltax91 said:
Sixpackpert said:
Get a witter towbar.
What age is the caravan and what chassis is it on?
The 'anti-sway' is usually built onto the caravan hitch and consists of friction pads that grip the towball.
The caravan brakes activate when the hitch compresses, ie you are braking. As the hitch compresses the brakes on the caravan are applied.
The caravan is a 1996 Swift Conqueror 550. It's in great condition as my father in law has used it for the last 5 years (in summer) in place of hotels when he works away 3-6 weeks at a time. He runs a small engineering firm and so they give it the going over regularly. I don't think this van has any anti sway feature in the tow hook though, the fella who tows it everywhere said "get a tow bar with anti sway". What age is the caravan and what chassis is it on?
The 'anti-sway' is usually built onto the caravan hitch and consists of friction pads that grip the towball.
The caravan brakes activate when the hitch compresses, ie you are braking. As the hitch compresses the brakes on the caravan are applied.
it has to work by detecting left right movement of the item being towed and effectively damping that - so it needs length to do that - usually either built into the item being towed, or as a separate add on - never seen it in a tow bar - and I have driven a vast variety of things with tow bars and towed all sorts of things...
https://www.towsure.com/snakemaster-swan-neck-stab...
is an example of an add-on, maybe that helps visualise how they work...?
kambites said:
I think they changed the rules recently(ish). When we passed our tests we could either tow:
A trailer of up to 750kg behind a vehicle of up to 3500kg; or
A trailer of over 750kg assuming the combined MAM of the two is less than 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer is less than the unladen weight of the car.
I believe the change was to remove the second condition of the second rule (the bit which I've highlighted in bold).
Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained->A trailer of up to 750kg behind a vehicle of up to 3500kg; or
A trailer of over 750kg assuming the combined MAM of the two is less than 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer is less than the unladen weight of the car.
I believe the change was to remove the second condition of the second rule (the bit which I've highlighted in bold).
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I would double check the weight. These were a pretty big van. You need to try and make sure the maximum permitted weight of the van is lower than the cars kerb weight. Or %85 if you can.
The weight in working order doesn’t cover anything inside, such as pots and pans, crockery etc. You might expect another 200 kg at least for that.
The weight in working order doesn’t cover anything inside, such as pots and pans, crockery etc. You might expect another 200 kg at least for that.
velocemitch said:
I would double check the weight. These were a pretty big van. You need to try and make sure the maximum permitted weight of the van is lower than the cars kerb weight. Or %85 if you can.
The weight in working order doesn’t cover anything inside, such as pots and pans, crockery etc. You might expect another 200 kg at least for that.
The maximum permissible mass of the van is 1500kg. The kerb weight of the qashqai is 1431kg..... So the plated MAM of the van is ever so slightly more.The weight in working order doesn’t cover anything inside, such as pots and pans, crockery etc. You might expect another 200 kg at least for that.
In reality the qashqai will have human beings and luggage in it, so will weigh maybe 1600-1700kg and the van will weigh less than 1400kg with the 200kg you suggest for personal effects? Still under the recommended 85% (1650kg x 85% = 1402kg)
S100HP said:
HustleRussell said:
S100HP said:
Given you're the same age as me, have you taken a tow test?
Not necessary if you're sub-3.5t.akirk said:
I suspect that it would be very difficult to build anti-sway into the tow hitch...
it has to work by detecting left right movement of the item being towed and effectively damping that - so it needs length to do that - usually either built into the item being towed, or as a separate add on - never seen it in a tow bar - and I have driven a vast variety of things with tow bars and towed all sorts of things...
https://www.towsure.com/snakemaster-swan-neck-stab...
is an example of an add-on, maybe that helps visualise how they work...?
Most caravans these days have anti sway tow hitches. Alko have been making them for years. A quick google will show up numerous versions. it has to work by detecting left right movement of the item being towed and effectively damping that - so it needs length to do that - usually either built into the item being towed, or as a separate add on - never seen it in a tow bar - and I have driven a vast variety of things with tow bars and towed all sorts of things...
https://www.towsure.com/snakemaster-swan-neck-stab...
is an example of an add-on, maybe that helps visualise how they work...?
The original way of doing it was to have an ‘anti-snake’ bar fitted. This required a bracket bolting to the car’s tow hitch, and one on the caravan A frame. The bar itself has a hinge that was friction damped.
Worked very well in my experience.
Either way, I would recommend some sort of sway control, it makes a huge difference.
eltax91 said:
If i get lessons i guess i might as well spend the £400 and pass the towing test! Lessons will surely come to half that for 3-4 hours
I have to say, I’ve been towing small car trailers for coming up to 10 years now, since I was 19, and I am still thinking about doing my B+e so that I am less restricted… but I have looked into doing the test and it really annoys me how overpriced it all is and how determined efforts have been made to prevent me using my own car / trailer to take it (Who has a ton of gravel or aggregate in 20kg sacks or a cubic meter bulk container of water sitting around?)I have been legal at all times and never found towing difficult however the small car trailer will be easier to tow than a caravan which is more draggy, more susceptible to cross winds, slightly heavier etc.
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