Books: A Song of Ice and Fire [SPOILERS]
Discussion
An extract from when Gilly wanted Sam to save her from Crasters Keep
Gilly was crying. 'Me and the babe. Please. I'll be your wife, like I was Craster's. Please, ser crow. He's a boy, just like Nella said he'd be. If you don't take him, they will.
'They?' said Sam, and the raven cocked its black head and echoed, 'They. They. They.'
'The boy's brothers,' said the old woman on the left. 'Craster's sons. The white cold's rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don't lie. They'll be here soon, the sons.'
Gilly was crying. 'Me and the babe. Please. I'll be your wife, like I was Craster's. Please, ser crow. He's a boy, just like Nella said he'd be. If you don't take him, they will.
'They?' said Sam, and the raven cocked its black head and echoed, 'They. They. They.'
'The boy's brothers,' said the old woman on the left. 'Craster's sons. The white cold's rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don't lie. They'll be here soon, the sons.'
Edited by BlackST on Monday 28th April 23:14
richtea78 said:
They put a programme synopsis which referred to the Night King touching the baby
Ahh, that's how we know it's deffo him...right.richtea78 said:
What's wrong with them being human? It's in keeping with the series.
I don't see how. Most of the legends seem to deal with four sentient races. Humans, CotF, Giants and the WW.That's why I'm not keen on it.
When I reread the books for the second time I'm sure I'll get more.
BlackST said:
Question. Who are the others? Is that a collective word for the whitewalkers and the wights?
For me it's simple. The Others and the White Walkers are synonymous or the same thing, and the wights were the reanimated corpses of humans that they can control....The Others being a fourth race...but after reading some of ASOIAF forums and now this bloody episode....er, still the above but now WW's ranks can be augmented by humans.Cheers 
Just going through the wiki's now and this link settled up a few things for me http://iceandfire.wikia.com/wiki/Others
So Azor Ahai. He previously led the battle over the Others and won. So they can be defeated. I guess it depends how many of the Others there are now and what they intend to do. Will they come south and try to breach the wall?
Many questions from me simply from that ending.
Will Azor Ahai be reborn and will another battle ensure against the Others?
Who will the 'new' Azor Ahai be?
How will the Others breach the Wall if they do intend to do so?
Now that Jon is dead what will be his fate?
I really can't wait for the new book and it will probably be a year or two away as well!
Also read from that link
According to the red priestess Melisandre of Asshai, the Others are the servants of a deity called the Great Other, the god of darkness, ice and death who is locked in eternal warfare with R'hllor, the god of light, fire and life.
I never really looked that far in to the story line. Always thought it was about the throne and everybodys fascination. The introduction, well, clip of the Others, has really made my mind wonder.
Will there be a huge battle between living and non living? Ice v Fire. Others v Dragons and humans?
Just going through the wiki's now and this link settled up a few things for me http://iceandfire.wikia.com/wiki/Others
So Azor Ahai. He previously led the battle over the Others and won. So they can be defeated. I guess it depends how many of the Others there are now and what they intend to do. Will they come south and try to breach the wall?
Many questions from me simply from that ending.
Will Azor Ahai be reborn and will another battle ensure against the Others?
Who will the 'new' Azor Ahai be?
How will the Others breach the Wall if they do intend to do so?
Now that Jon is dead what will be his fate?
I really can't wait for the new book and it will probably be a year or two away as well!
Also read from that link
According to the red priestess Melisandre of Asshai, the Others are the servants of a deity called the Great Other, the god of darkness, ice and death who is locked in eternal warfare with R'hllor, the god of light, fire and life.
I never really looked that far in to the story line. Always thought it was about the throne and everybodys fascination. The introduction, well, clip of the Others, has really made my mind wonder.
Will there be a huge battle between living and non living? Ice v Fire. Others v Dragons and humans?
I know, it's crazy.
A lot of points...I'll have to consider them overnight.
This is what I saw on fb and thought episode 4 would be all about the treeman/Three Eyed Crow/Bryndon Rivers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5b45orqRLo&li...
A lot of points...I'll have to consider them overnight.
This is what I saw on fb and thought episode 4 would be all about the treeman/Three Eyed Crow/Bryndon Rivers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5b45orqRLo&li...
So much to think about. Like the guy in the Youtube link said, you look into one persons history and you end up looking into 10 other peoples background too 
There is just that much to take in.
Interesting to see how Bran's story develops. I believe we will see in the program further than him learning from the 3 eyed crow like in the book. Unsure whether it will be in this series or the next.
There is just that much to take in.
Interesting to see how Bran's story develops. I believe we will see in the program further than him learning from the 3 eyed crow like in the book. Unsure whether it will be in this series or the next.
The book series is called A Song of Ice and Fire, the Game of Thrones bit is because of the TV show and IMO the Throne stuff is a side plot to the main story which was always going to come down to a battle between light and dark, Ice and Fire. Yes there will be loads of Others but the Dragons will be involved and they will have a big impact.
I think and its a while since I looked into this but Jon is going to be the Prince who was Promised who may also be Azor Ahai. No one knows yet. Some theories suggest it could even end up being a Princess not a Prince
What I love about it is just how detailed it all is. Its not surprising it takes him so long to write. It really is another world. I know Tolkien and many other fantasy writers have created worlds but none to this level of detail with so many characters in play.
I think and its a while since I looked into this but Jon is going to be the Prince who was Promised who may also be Azor Ahai. No one knows yet. Some theories suggest it could even end up being a Princess not a Prince
What I love about it is just how detailed it all is. Its not surprising it takes him so long to write. It really is another world. I know Tolkien and many other fantasy writers have created worlds but none to this level of detail with so many characters in play.
richtea78 said:
What I love about it is just how detailed it all is. Its not surprising it takes him so long to write. It really is another world. I know Tolkien and many other fantasy writers have created worlds but none to this level of detail with so many characters in play.
Tolkien did. When you look at the languages, histories, creation myths, all the stories that are before the LotR. The Gods and spirits etc, it's huge, much much bigger than just LotR.Where do you think theyre going with the 'traitors' at Crasters?
Do you think Jon will get stabbed there and then Stannis/Mel will descend upon the it all killing the wildlings/traitors etc?
Also, bit of an arc with Bran and co. being captured and Summer locked up (Though wasnt he caged when they attacked Jon?)
And Amory Loch is back....
Do you think Jon will get stabbed there and then Stannis/Mel will descend upon the it all killing the wildlings/traitors etc?
Also, bit of an arc with Bran and co. being captured and Summer locked up (Though wasnt he caged when they attacked Jon?)
And Amory Loch is back....
Halb said:
Tolkien did. When you look at the languages, histories, creation myths, all the stories that are before the LotR. The Gods and spirits etc, it's huge, much much bigger than just LotR.
Yet he couldnt explain about the Eagles properly so I had to ask someone about it! 
Plus elves, elves wind me up as well. Even more so that they have crammed Legolas and some "Arwen" rip off into The Hobbit. This may be down to the number of Night Elves in WoW called Legolazz and various other b
disations of the name. I was thinking about the implications of this Night King thing over night and IMO it could be huge. Reading up on the Night King he was the 13th commander of the Nights Watch and its hintedly that he was called Bran Stark. He fell in love with a white woman and being a sourceror f
ked st up. This was just after the wall was built so 8000 years ago. He was only stopped when The King Beyond the Wall and the King in the North combined forces to attack him. If you bring it up to date it could have huge implications if its a piece of foreshadowing. The King Beyond the Wall could be Mance or it could even be Jon Snow. The King in the North could be any of the surviving Starks (my guess wouldnt be this) or more likely Stannis, especially as Stannis and Mance are already working together.
I wonder if the bit with Bran could indicate that the current Bran could turn out to be evil as well?
lemmingjames said:
Where do you think theyre going with the 'traitors' at Crasters?
Do you think Jon will get stabbed there and then Stannis/Mel will descend upon the it all killing the wildlings/traitors etc?
Also, bit of an arc with Bran and co. being captured and Summer locked up (Though wasnt he caged when they attacked Jon?)
And Amory Loch is back....
The traitors subplot is just buffer to allow other parts of the story to catch up, since the show is linear, but the books jump around. We still need to get to Dany being alone in the desert, Tyrion in Meeren, all of the Stannis plot...and yet Bran is already over the wall. They can't just forget about Bran for two years while it all catches up. Do you think Jon will get stabbed there and then Stannis/Mel will descend upon the it all killing the wildlings/traitors etc?
Also, bit of an arc with Bran and co. being captured and Summer locked up (Though wasnt he caged when they attacked Jon?)
And Amory Loch is back....
Amory Loch is dead. You mean Dreadfort man Locke?
richtea78 said:
I was thinking about the implications of this Night King thing over night and IMO it could be huge. Reading up on the Night King he was the 13th commander of the Nights Watch and its hintedly that he was called Bran Stark. He fell in love with a white woman and being a sourceror fked st up. This was just after the wall was built so 8000 years ago. He was only stopped when The King Beyond the Wall and the King in the North combined forces to attack him.
If you bring it up to date it could have huge implications if its a piece of foreshadowing. The King Beyond the Wall could be Mance or it could even be Jon Snow. The King in the North could be any of the surviving Starks (my guess wouldnt be this) or more likely Stannis, especially as Stannis and Mance are already working together.
I wonder if the bit with Bran could indicate that the current Bran could turn out to be evil as well?
Good stuff!ked st up. This was just after the wall was built so 8000 years ago. He was only stopped when The King Beyond the Wall and the King in the North combined forces to attack him. If you bring it up to date it could have huge implications if its a piece of foreshadowing. The King Beyond the Wall could be Mance or it could even be Jon Snow. The King in the North could be any of the surviving Starks (my guess wouldnt be this) or more likely Stannis, especially as Stannis and Mance are already working together.
I wonder if the bit with Bran could indicate that the current Bran could turn out to be evil as well?
Read some very interesting stuff on fb. Basically a guy was saying R'hllor was the 'evil' one. Since his follower kill the ones they love, Azoi Azai etc. Whereas the Night King fell in love and only wanted to be with his love.
My own theory that is formulating is that there is no 'evil', just sides of the 'great powers'. And the other Gods (powers beyond for want of a better word), do they have avatars too?
No. I think a lot of the fans think the 7 Gods arent "real" with the caveat that real is a relative state and only the Fire and Ice gods are real.
As to which is good and evil the whole book is about there not being a good and evil, its just different sides of an argument. If you look at it as that person has you could see how they might think the fire ones were the evil ones. Certainly they are the ones sacrificing people while the Others save the babies (admittedly for a relative value of save where save = turn into an Other) and make them immortal.
Are elements capable of being evil? Fire is fire and Ice is Ice. I dont think you can say one is evil and one is good can you? Both will kill you but just by different measures and both can protect you from the opposite.
It raises some interesting points, especially given Danys increasing bloodythirstyness. Crucifying the slave masters may have been the just thing to do but was it the right thing to do? I think ultimately that is going to come back against her which we know it does.
As to which is good and evil the whole book is about there not being a good and evil, its just different sides of an argument. If you look at it as that person has you could see how they might think the fire ones were the evil ones. Certainly they are the ones sacrificing people while the Others save the babies (admittedly for a relative value of save where save = turn into an Other) and make them immortal.
Are elements capable of being evil? Fire is fire and Ice is Ice. I dont think you can say one is evil and one is good can you? Both will kill you but just by different measures and both can protect you from the opposite.
It raises some interesting points, especially given Danys increasing bloodythirstyness. Crucifying the slave masters may have been the just thing to do but was it the right thing to do? I think ultimately that is going to come back against her which we know it does.
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