Book writers of PH

Author
Discussion

LeftmostAardvark

1,434 posts

163 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2013
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andyroo said:
Get it written, then worry about trimming it down or padding it out afterwards. Once you've written it, stick it in a drawer for a few months, then when you read it, anything that needs changing will be obvious because you'll be reading it fresh. A good editor will make your life a lot easier at that point.
Agreed. To quote a famous author: 'don't get it right, get it written.'

SV8Predator

2,102 posts

164 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2013
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LSsupercar said:
SV8Predator said:
Roy Lime said:
Don't quite understand this. What do you mean?
It means that he's not a writer, had an idea which quickly ran out of steam, now has writer's block which means that it will unlikely to progress further.

But he still expects to get it published.
No, it means I'm an idiot and put 'not' in where I did not mean to! It's not ran out of steam at all, it's going very well in fact!
Is your book written to the same standard? Not to worry, the publisher's editors will sort all that out for you.

wink

LSsupercar

400 posts

155 months

Wednesday 4th September 2013
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Luckily I tend to proof read what I put in my book! biggrin

SV8Predator

2,102 posts

164 months

Sunday 8th September 2013
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LSsupercar said:
Luckily I tend to proof read what I put in my book! biggrin
You know, don't you, that you can't proof-read your own work?

LeftmostAardvark

1,434 posts

163 months

Sunday 8th September 2013
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SV8Predator said:
You know, don't you, that you can't proof-read your own work?
It is a real sod to do, but it can be done - Stephen king in 'on writing' suggested that he put his finished first drafts in a drawer for a couple of months and then re-read it when he had let it filter out of his short term memory. I'd try that myself but money is tight enough that I need to get the books out quickly to capitalise on the swell of interest from the previous books.

Roy Lime

Original Poster:

594 posts

131 months

Friday 13th September 2013
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The other day I had a long phone call with a publisher, he told me my novel had just missed out. I've received a bit of feedback from the readers, quoted as follows:

"Generally the pitch and the book plot were well received. The ideas are topical - but also timeless, ruthless business men trying to claw their way to the top, the bad side of human nature. The book itself was easy to read, but I think the main problem came from the characterisation. Too many of the characters were stereotypes, which always makes them less than believable or realistic as most people are more complex."

They added a bit about forgetting dreams of being the next JK Rowling as it's mostly luck and then said,

"If however, you enjoy writing I say keep going - there is a book there - it just needs more development and a bit more work."

This gives me a couple of problems. The story is a satire; the characters were written to be stereotypes. Secondly, they've suggested I have the book edited prior to submission (not copy edited - there are no particular problems with grammar etc.). I've always wanted it editing, but worry that if I do so before submitting it anywhere else, I'm in exactly the same position - surely editing at that level is highly subjective.

I'm new to all this. What do people think?

LeftmostAardvark

1,434 posts

163 months

Friday 13th September 2013
quotequote all
Roy Lime said:
The other day I had a long phone call with a publisher, he told me my novel had just missed out. I've received a bit of feedback from the readers, quoted as follows:

"Generally the pitch and the book plot were well received. The ideas are topical - but also timeless, ruthless business men trying to claw their way to the top, the bad side of human nature. The book itself was easy to read, but I think the main problem came from the characterisation. Too many of the characters were stereotypes, which always makes them less than believable or realistic as most people are more complex."

They added a bit about forgetting dreams of being the next JK Rowling as it's mostly luck and then said,

"If however, you enjoy writing I say keep going - there is a book there - it just needs more development and a bit more work."

This gives me a couple of problems. The story is a satire; the characters were written to be stereotypes. Secondly, they've suggested I have the book edited prior to submission (not copy edited - there are no particular problems with grammar etc.). I've always wanted it editing, but worry that if I do so before submitting it anywhere else, I'm in exactly the same position - surely editing at that level is highly subjective.

I'm new to all this. What do people think?
You're talking to a publisher, therefore you're ahead of 98% of people that are trying to break into the writing market. Keep going, sub it out to a couple more publishers (carefully picked of course). Everything they have said is subjective, others will think entirely differently (for better AND worse). Keep going, that was a huge achievement.

Roy Lime

Original Poster:

594 posts

131 months

Friday 13th September 2013
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LeftmostAardvark said:
Keep going, sub it out to a couple more publishers (carefully picked of course).
There aren't that many left. laugh

SV8Predator

2,102 posts

164 months

Saturday 14th September 2013
quotequote all
LeftmostAardvark said:
SV8Predator said:
You know, don't you, that you can't proof-read your own work?
It is a real sod to do, but it can be done - Stephen king in 'on writing' suggested that he put his finished first drafts in a drawer for a couple of months and then re-read it when he had let it filter out of his short term memory. I'd try that myself but money is tight enough that I need to get the books out quickly to capitalise on the swell of interest from the previous books.
That not proof-reading, that's editing and rewriting, an entirely different thing. Proof-reading is to check for typos, bad punctuation and poor grammar. And, as I said, you can't do that for your own work. Your brain sees what it wants to see.

A fresh pair of eyes will pick up the mistakes.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Saturday 14th September 2013
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Nom de ploom said:
I've not looked at mine for a while but will pick it up again soon I think.

I have an ending but whilst writing I'm torn between taking too long over dialogue scenes to develop character and using the dialogue to drive the plot along... I want to tell a story but I'm worried the reader will get bored or that I will leave gaps that might make the reader think - how did we get here, for sake of brevity....

all in the challenge I guess...
You missed the third pillar of great literature - the sex scene. wink

BruceV8

3,325 posts

246 months

Sunday 15th September 2013
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I wrote a novel about 12 years ago. I made a few half hearted attempts at getting it published and then forgot about it. Then I lost it. In truth it probably wasn't very good, but I don't regret doing it as I learned a lot simply by the process of writing.

I have a few ideas for other books, mainly historical fiction centred on military subjects but - hopefully - with enduring themes.

I also approached one publisher to seek advice on the feasibility of reworking my MPhil thesis into a book - its about the development of bomb disposal capability in Northern Ireland and how we came to deal with IEDs in the way that we do. They said it wasn't for them but it might be for someone.

andyroo

2,469 posts

209 months

Sunday 15th September 2013
quotequote all
Roy Lime said:
The other day I had a long phone call with a publisher, he told me my novel had just missed out. I've received a bit of feedback from the readers, quoted as follows:

"Generally the pitch and the book plot were well received. The ideas are topical - but also timeless, ruthless business men trying to claw their way to the top, the bad side of human nature. The book itself was easy to read, but I think the main problem came from the characterisation. Too many of the characters were stereotypes, which always makes them less than believable or realistic as most people are more complex."

They added a bit about forgetting dreams of being the next JK Rowling as it's mostly luck and then said,

"If however, you enjoy writing I say keep going - there is a book there - it just needs more development and a bit more work."

This gives me a couple of problems. The story is a satire; the characters were written to be stereotypes. Secondly, they've suggested I have the book edited prior to submission (not copy edited - there are no particular problems with grammar etc.). I've always wanted it editing, but worry that if I do so before submitting it anywhere else, I'm in exactly the same position - surely editing at that level is highly subjective.

I'm new to all this. What do people think?
Not sure how much you know about professional editing, but there are three main levels: the developmental/substantive edit, where the plot and characters are discussed in a general sense; the line/copyedit, where flow and and general readability are streamlined; and proofreading, the nitpicking of grammar and spelling. I would suggest the publisher is referring to the middle one, just so the fluff is removed and the book flows as well as it can to give the reader no opportunity to trip up. A professional edit should cost you between £500-£1000, and is well worth it; it will even help you learn what your writing foibles are to improve for your next work.

Some info for you: new authors, even ones taken on by big publishers, are often left to market their own work. If you can't attract a commitment from a publisher, I would suggest that the quality of your work is not the problem, but your marketability. If you self publish, pay for advertising, build up a fan base, you can prove your worth and attract publishers that way. If you've already sold 20,000 ebooks, a publisher will see you as less of a risk, particularly since you're not writing in a top three genre.

SV8Predator

2,102 posts

164 months

Monday 16th September 2013
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andyroo said:
If you self publish, pay for advertising, build up a fan base, you can prove your worth and attract publishers that way. If you've already sold 20,000 ebooks, a publisher will see you as less of a risk,
Do you think this is true, or just a theory?

Have you (or any writers you know) actually "proved your worth" and attracted a proper publisher after self-publishing?

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Monday 16th September 2013
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I have written 60,000 words of my first novel, sent off the usual couple of chapters to a few agents but no interest. frown I am not drawn to self-publishing - my view is that, if it is any good, the traditional agent - publisher - big advance - life of luxury and book launches would follow.

LeftmostAardvark

1,434 posts

163 months

Tuesday 17th September 2013
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SV8Predator said:
Do you think this is true, or just a theory?

Have you (or any writers you know) actually "proved your worth" and attracted a proper publisher after self-publishing?
I'm in quite progressed talks with one of the top publishers as a result of the performance of my first (self published) book.

LeftmostAardvark

1,434 posts

163 months

Tuesday 17th September 2013
quotequote all
Ayahuasca said:
I have written 60,000 words of my first novel, sent off the usual couple of chapters to a few agents but no interest. frown I am not drawn to self-publishing - my view is that, if it is any good, the traditional agent - publisher - big advance - life of luxury and book launches would follow.
Some of the best (in terms of well received and best selling) books started off as self published. The self publishing market is a real game changer - publishers can check how well a book is received before committing an advance. It has essentially de risked the market for them. It also knackers the agent side of things, as there is no longer a 'sell' - why would anyone listen to someone trying to sell s debut novel with speculation on how well it is going to sell, when they can simply check the previous sales data and correlate it with reviews.

I think (and it is only my thoughts, not substantive proof), that authors only really get picked up after the second self published book. Ideal timeline (and something i'm about to test with my second book in a week or so) is something like this:
1. Book 1 sells well and is reviewed well
2. Book 2 released and is instantly picked up by the fan base established by book 1
3. Book 2 gets prominent (goes up the chart) and spikes a resurgence of interest in book 1.

These can give some useful metrics that can give a pretty good idea about the level of fan base an author is likely to establish. I'll try and analyse how it goes for me in the next month and report back.

SV8Predator

2,102 posts

164 months

Tuesday 17th September 2013
quotequote all
LeftmostAardvark said:
Some of the best (in terms of well received and best selling) books started off as self published.
Do you have any examples of this?


LeftmostAardvark

1,434 posts

163 months

Tuesday 17th September 2013
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SV8Predator said:
Do you have any examples of this?
The obvious one is 50 shades (taking best to mean best selling, rather than best literature).

Others: check out Rachel Abbott as one UK author that springs to mind. She's done a comprehensive blog on her progress over the last 18 months or so as well.

SV8Predator

2,102 posts

164 months

Wednesday 18th September 2013
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Useful info.

andyroo

2,469 posts

209 months

Wednesday 18th September 2013
quotequote all
SV8Predator said:
Do you think this is true, or just a theory?

Have you (or any writers you know) actually "proved your worth" and attracted a proper publisher after self-publishing?
The research for the promotion of my next book was based on conversations with around five sci-fi authors who have been offered contracts because of their sales. Don't forget that as a new author in a big publishing house you will still have to do pretty much all the marketing, so a book that is already well received by a big audience is going to be easy pickings.