Why don't we buy American cars?
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
If you believe Jaguar are still producing "British cars to German standards", where do you draw the line?
The Holden Monaro in makeup is based on the Omega family which is German so where do you want to draw the line on what is Australian, American or Transylvanian?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I see the Noble as a kind of new-age Lotus Europa - highly adaptable, very fast using parts-bin bits, competetively priced, build on racing experience, nice from the front but questionable from the rear. All in all, I'd say the concept is as British as British motorsport gets - club racer for the 21st century. I'll bet they'll swarm the tracks in 'historics' in 25 years time.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Working in the USA I have the 'joy' of dealing with all sorts of people from all over the world. Here's may take.
To be honest I think that makes cars what they are are the personalities involved. In the case of the Noble it's made to a fantastically talented designer's spec, the workshop just happens to be abroad.
The PAG Fords are designed by the original design teams supplemented by new hires who have a reasonable understanding of what it is all about. That's not to say that a Land Rover guy works for Jaguar for a day and immediately bleeds Jaguar green but they know the basics of what the car is all about. Same goes for Volvo.
Saab on the other hand is being trashed by GM. The philosophy at GM is that if it looks like a Saab, feels like a Saab and has a Saab badge, then it's a Saab. Maybe, but if it rusts like a Vauxhall and has the reliability of a Vauxhall because it was designed by the people who design Vauxhalls then that's going to trash the worth of the car to the people who bought them 10 years before they were purchased by GM. People like my former neighbour, who bought one because he was sick of buying British cars that were rusty after a year and broke down frequently.
The American design teams of Japanese companies comprise primarily of Japanese management and locals to do the donkey work. That way the values of the vehicle are being maintained. They build cars in the South of the USA where there is a 'right to work', i.e. not have to join a union and people appreciate earning a decent wage that still leaves the company competitive.
The German companies seem to have a much better idea about design for manufacture and assembly. They design it to be able to screw the car together consistently with little variability so the product can be designed cheaper and made cheaper. Hence they tend to be more profitable. If they didn't have such high labour costs and taxes they could be world beaters.
The Japanese tend to be capable and learn from their mistakes. Their designs are evolutionary in the main. They tend to keep things very stable. Working with them is easy. You explain what you want, in detail, they tell you when it will be done by, and they get it done, and usually better than you wanted. They take pride in their work. They are suffering from a fairly inefficient structure in many companies, and profitability is primarily coming from a weak Yen.
Americans are profit driven short termists in the main. They like numbers. They do not like to rely on individual thoughts but will listen if the information comes from an outside company. Unfortunately these consultants tell the client what they want to hear, not what they need to hear. As the US public starts buying increased numbers of Japanese and European cars anybody with a small amount of grey matter might ask why that is, and question what the response should be. In many cases people would answer that it's a well designed, economical, well styled car, that's well screwed together. The Big 3 Answer seems to be to make more product that appeals to their cheap and (in percentage terms of the population) contracting market of buyers. As the Internet expands even the most unaware people researching a purchase will learn what's available and find it isn't the case that American is best, as they once perhaps believed.
Living in Detroit I am biased and I want all of the Big 3 to be successful, and I want people to buy American. But if the Big 3 produce more of the same product that is in many cases at best mediocre and sold on the basis of patriotism (and to some degree local market tastes) the result has to be reduced market share and redundancies.
BTW for the Corvette fans - the latest car is good. It is competent and appeals to what the local market wants. However, it is GM's technology test bed and in many cases the technological flagship of the company. The latest Malibu was designed by Stevie Wonder and most definitely would not qualify as 'desirable' in my household.
LuS1fer said:
Or a '72 Roadrunner...
www.aacint.com/classifieds/detail.asp?iType=4&iAd=654
only if it was in yellow and had daisy duke (in her prime) in it!!
As the originator of this thread, and having said that I would probably chew my arm off than buy a Corvette or such like, I do wish to make a correction.
There are some American cars I have a soft spot for. But they are 30 years old or more...
Cars like the 60's Mustang, or maybe an authentic Shelby Mustang. I could definitely live with one of those.
On a hot summer day like today, with speed cameras everywhere and a congested south east of England, one of these would be most agreeable..
There are some American cars I have a soft spot for. But they are 30 years old or more...
Cars like the 60's Mustang, or maybe an authentic Shelby Mustang. I could definitely live with one of those.
On a hot summer day like today, with speed cameras everywhere and a congested south east of England, one of these would be most agreeable..
Toppstuff...
After looking at the list of cars that you have owned, I would suggest that you would tire of this vehicle within 1/2 an hour...
The mustang was good technology (not great but good) for the early 60's but they are nothing compared to most modern vehicles. The ride is harsh, the wind, when the top down is near unbearable and its has more body roll than a fat woman on roller skates...
Believe it or not, the early 60's Corvettes are actually better vehicles (and I'm not a Corvette man).
ErnestM
edited to add:
I've driven both. The '64 Corvette is a better car.
PS: The Shelbys are a whole different story, however
>> Edited by ErnestM on Sunday 8th August 00:46
After looking at the list of cars that you have owned, I would suggest that you would tire of this vehicle within 1/2 an hour...
The mustang was good technology (not great but good) for the early 60's but they are nothing compared to most modern vehicles. The ride is harsh, the wind, when the top down is near unbearable and its has more body roll than a fat woman on roller skates...
Believe it or not, the early 60's Corvettes are actually better vehicles (and I'm not a Corvette man).
ErnestM
edited to add:
I've driven both. The '64 Corvette is a better car.
PS: The Shelbys are a whole different story, however
>> Edited by ErnestM on Sunday 8th August 00:46
It may be an "in the flesh" thing, a failure to appreciate the scale of the cars or maybe just total ignorance of the cars but all I can add to this topic is that there is no shortage of people who aspire to owning an American car. The reaction of countless members of the public to either the Camaro or the Corvette is often "Wow" and a recent visit to a classic car show in the Camaro had crowds round it.
Inevitably, the comments are always favourable and the lust obvious but followed by the usual mythology about fuel consumption. Not enough of them actually realise that owning such a car is well within their grasp but still most of them have never heard of a Camaro and most dismiss the idea as a pipe dream.
Inevitably, the comments are always favourable and the lust obvious but followed by the usual mythology about fuel consumption. Not enough of them actually realise that owning such a car is well within their grasp but still most of them have never heard of a Camaro and most dismiss the idea as a pipe dream.
GavinPearson said:
Northernboy - the W12 engine is clearly more than powerful enough. The main problem is that the vehicle is designed to suit a certain duty cycle and with the car left standard it might not last long. That goes for the bodyshell integrity, transmission and brakes.
When I went to collect my car from New York I pulled a fully enclosed trailer with a 1.3 ton car inside it. Going up a Pennsylvania mountain was a struggle in a 4.6 Explorer with a 7500 lb towing capacity at anything more than 50 mph. Bear in mind the legal minimum speed is 45 mph. It is a very severe test of a vehicle's capability.
That is true about it being more than just the engine.
My truck has better gearing and transmission coolers.
The brakes are made for stopping with a heavy load. Suspension ordered for towing and hauling as opposed to off roading. My truck has been optimized for such work in combination with proven engine. It will outlast, out perform, and be more comfortable than just putting a tow hitch on car. A 4X4 truck on icy or snow covered hilly roads or pulling a 25' boat trailer up a steep inline of a wet slick boat ramp is no problem.
Your car however will give better performance and better gas mileage than my truck on a plain old trip on the hwy. But then again if I were to go on such a road trip I will change cars and pick the best one for the purpose of the trip.
Just as a car is better under certain circumstances than a truck, a truck set up for towing is very hard beat at it's job and a lot less stressful.
Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff