Oil - It might not be what you think!!
Discussion
opieoilman said:
for anyone interested in buying oil from OPIE OILS, all i can say is get on the phone. i purchased 20litres of silkolene from the,for considerably less than what i would have paid elsewhere. plus it arrived the next day. what more can you ask for.
We meet again!!!
You will be on commission soon!!!!
Cheers
Guy.
good good.
john_p said:
I have been waiting for this one! The Castrol TWS is the same as Castrol RS 10w-60 and dont let anyone tell you different, why they recomend it for this engine is a mystery the 10w-60 grade is not needed in modern engines as it is as thick when hot as some gear oils, if you have a look at the BMW GB forum you will see a hornets nest being stired up there because BMW UK now recomend TWS for the S62 engine yet in the hand book it states a 0w-30!!! there seems to be a difference between what BMW Germany say and what BMW UK say.
Do you think there could be any connection to a recent recall to replace big-end bearing shells or previous ones to replace oil pump + shells ?
No idea if there's a link or not, but it is one of the mysteries of the engine as to why they go bang.
Could well be, however my thoughts are a thick oil will generate more heat, causing more damage to these areas...
I dont know, I am still waiting to see what BMW Germany say.
Cheers
I love whistle-blowers! 
opieoilman said:
Opieoilman: what's your take on two-stroke oil for premix applications?
Pigeon,
How do you mean? there are a few choices for premix available, are you talking special pre mix oils or regular two stroke oil being used for premix?
Cheers
Guy.
Well, the stuff they sell in petrol stations generally says it's equally suitable for premix or oil injection, which may or may not be true, or may just mean that it's equally crap for both
I'm interested in your description of the chemistry behind different types of oil and how it affects their properties, and your insight into how what it says on the can relates to what the oil really is.
I'm assuming that both chemistry and perhaps to a lesser extent inaccurate labelling are different in the realm of two-stroke oils with their different requirements - forming a good film from a carburetted mist, clean burning, low carbon deposits, but long term stability essentially irrelevant, no doubt you can add many more - and would appreciate a general summary of the situation with regard to the two-stroke oils available in petrol stations, bike shops and Half-rods, not racing types or stuff you have to get from specialists.
I would also like to know your views on good "common" oil for an MZ TS250 - 250cc single, needle big and little ends, ball bearing mains, 20bhp, 6000rpm, premix, ridden using the power
It is only a lowly bike but that is no reason not to use good oil! Thanks!
Great thread Opieoilman, makes really interesting reading and one I'll be bookmarking for later reference.
Interesting one for you, Saab B202 engine(900 T16, 9000 2litre Turbo) with a 6500rpm rev limit, tuned to around 300bhp/300ftlbs (boost set between 1.3bar and 1.6bar depending on what I'm up to with it) on standard internals (balanced to tighter tolerances than standard) and forged pistons (standard design and C/R just a change of material) currently use Mobil 0w/40 and change ever 3000 miles. Car is used on road and track in equal measures and often see's high speed/load.
Does that sound about right or could you recommend something better?
Cheers
Matt
Interesting one for you, Saab B202 engine(900 T16, 9000 2litre Turbo) with a 6500rpm rev limit, tuned to around 300bhp/300ftlbs (boost set between 1.3bar and 1.6bar depending on what I'm up to with it) on standard internals (balanced to tighter tolerances than standard) and forged pistons (standard design and C/R just a change of material) currently use Mobil 0w/40 and change ever 3000 miles. Car is used on road and track in equal measures and often see's high speed/load.
Does that sound about right or could you recommend something better?
Cheers
Matt
TVR have stopped using Mobil 1 which i've used for 10 years on all my cars. I have a Tusc which the dealer puts Mobil 1 in. It burns a bit how about Carlube RR 0-40. I've noticed Carlube do a no. of 'fully synthetic' grades. TVR recomend Carlube RRR.
The difference is £35 for 4 litres Mobil 1, £18 for carlube RRR 10-50, I have not seen 0-40 in the local store but they say £28 for 5 litres.
What do you think. It does not have to last as i change less than 6k miles and use about 4 litres in between.
The difference is £35 for 4 litres Mobil 1, £18 for carlube RRR 10-50, I have not seen 0-40 in the local store but they say £28 for 5 litres.
What do you think. It does not have to last as i change less than 6k miles and use about 4 litres in between.
Hmm, read on please..........
Not written by me but for me by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R&D Chemist who has forgotten more than I know!
Remember, he's a Chemist not a Salesman!
Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions. We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”. Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!
Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”? Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”. Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.
So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics!
The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil, such as PRO S or PRO R. This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for!
Here endeth the lesson!
Cheers
Guy
Not written by me but for me by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R&D Chemist who has forgotten more than I know!
Remember, he's a Chemist not a Salesman!
Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions. We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”. Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!
Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”? Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”. Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.
So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics!
The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil, such as PRO S or PRO R. This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for!
Here endeth the lesson!
Cheers
Guy
bad boy said:
and a 1998 toyota corolla 1.3 85k up if its any use it currently uses no oil but runs quite rough from cold, and i have no idea whats in it at the moment but i suspect its cheap crap. ps a few bhp like the blackbird in the other thread would be nice
I would go for a good quality semi synthetic. The recomended grade for all year round use is 10w-40. I dont think you will get another 5% out of it but a good one like the Fuchs Titan XTR 10w-40 will look after your engine just fine. If it is a bit rough from cold you could be using 15w or 20w as this will give poor cold start. the 10w should make things a little smoother.
Cheers
Guy,
matt_t16 said:
Great thread Opieoilman, makes really interesting reading and one I'll be bookmarking for later reference.
Interesting one for you, Saab B202 engine(900 T16, 9000 2litre Turbo) with a 6500rpm rev limit, tuned to around 300bhp/300ftlbs (boost set between 1.3bar and 1.6bar depending on what I'm up to with it) on standard internals (balanced to tighter tolerances than standard) and forged pistons (standard design and C/R just a change of material) currently use Mobil 0w/40 and change ever 3000 miles. Car is used on road and track in equal measures and often see's high speed/load.
Does that sound about right or could you recommend something better?
Cheers
Matt
Matt,
I like Saab's, in fact I have an old 99 Turbo sat on the drive awaiting a timing chain to be fitted. The Mobil 1 0w-40 you are using is a good oil, may be a little thin but a good oil. Mobil pride themselves on using PAO synthetics, this can only be topped by using an ester based synthetic as they are polar. If you are considering a change try the Silkolene Pro S 5w-40 ester based synthetic. Esters assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction.
They are fluid at very low temperatures and at high temperatures they are very chemically stable and have low volatility (don’t evaporate away).
They also help to prevent hardening and cracking of oil seals at high temperatures making them ideal for tuned turbo engines.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy.
gary_tholl said:
Cool thread! Thanks for the info Guy.
I've got another 'what should I use' question for you, sorry.
It's an early 80's Cosworth BDD Formula Atlantic race engine. 11.1:1 compression, will do 10k rpm, 220hp out of 1.6L, dry sumped.
It is going into a street/autocross car, so it will see some hard use.
Now, since it's from an era before synthetic oils, do I use what was recommended at the time, or a new synthetic?
I'm liking the sound of the Silkolene, but would like to hear from someone who knows what they're talking about!
Thanks,
Gary
Gary,
I have had a responce from the rally and technical expert from Silkolene, yes he may be bias towards his oils but he really knows his onions.
Here is what he said.
Guy,
Suggest PRO S 5W-40 or 10W-50 for this application. Both are very durable full synthetics which have been used with success in dry sump specials. The 5W-40 version will release entrained air faster and this would be favourite if oil pressure is OK. Your man may prefer the heavier 10W-50 version if he feels that there is some very hard usage ahead, this is also OK, select according to taste !!
Best Wishes,
Alan Walker.
Cheers
Guy.
opieoilman said:
and a 1998 toyota corolla 1.3 85k up
I would go for a good quality semi synthetic. The recomended grade for all year round use is 10w-40. I dont think you will get another 5% out of it but a good one like the Fuchs Titan XTR 10w-40 will look after your engine just fine. If it is a bit rough from cold you could be using 15w or 20w as this will give poor cold start. the 10w should make things a little smoother.
Cheers
Guy,
cheers for that
opieoilman said:
Cool thread! Thanks for the info Guy.
I've got another 'what should I use' question for you, sorry.
It's an early 80's Cosworth BDD Formula Atlantic race engine. 11.1:1 compression, will do 10k rpm, 220hp out of 1.6L, dry sumped.
It is going into a street/autocross car, so it will see some hard use.
Now, since it's from an era before synthetic oils, do I use what was recommended at the time, or a new synthetic?
I'm liking the sound of the Silkolene, but would like to hear from someone who knows what they're talking about!
Thanks,
Gary
Gary,
I have had a responce from the rally and technical expert from Silkolene, yes he may be bias towards his oils but he really knows his onions.
Here is what he said.
Guy,
Suggest PRO S 5W-40 or 10W-50 for this application. Both are very durable full synthetics which have been used with success in dry sump specials. The 5W-40 version will release entrained air faster and this would be favourite if oil pressure is OK. Your man may prefer the heavier 10W-50 version if he feels that there is some very hard usage ahead, this is also OK, select according to taste !!
Best Wishes,
Alan Walker.
Cheers
Guy.
You and Alan rock! Thanks for the effort, I was a little concerned about what type of oil to run in it. That's at least one thing I no longer need to worry about.
Gary
moleamol said:
Any chance you could recommend an oil for a 1971 Capri 3000GT? It's a 3 litre V6 essex.
Cheers.
Sorry old bean, did not mean to ignore you, I have passed this one on to my friend Alan Walker Technical Head of Silkolen/Fuchs, he is the be all and end all on oil for pre 80's engines, what kind of mileage has it done as this will help.
Cheers
Guy.
Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff