Flemke - Is this your McLaren?
Discussion
flemke said:
Do you know what happened to the special UK reg plate that HS outbid the late Steve O'Rourke to get? HS is/was a proper car nut. I remember him telling me that he raced a Ferrari and the handling was very good... The bombshell came in a later conversation when it transpired he'd got one of the last V12 F1 cars (ex-Jean Alesi IIRC and the sister car of Ascari boss Klaus Zwaart's)
It was my understanding at the time that he had decided to sell the F1 to get the Ferrari.
Flemke, I know many people are curious about the F1 purely for the huge expense/rarity/performance, but slightly more mundanely, how long have you had the car for now, and equally so, how often do you use it? I'm sure most people would say I'd drive it every day without fail, but as you've got access to other exotica etc, how much do you actually get out in it?
Secondly, clearly the 'Ring is a passion of yours, does it get used more at the Ring than on the roads?
Just curious to how usable it is versus how often you actually think, hmmm, I'll take the Macca.
The F1 is my all time favourite, absolutely gorgeous.
Saw one in the car park at last years Goodwood Revival meeting, it was in a dark gray colour. Just looked so compact and subtle and the engineering quality was sensational.
To my mind far more desirable than all these bloated Ferraris around...
Just to mention that there is a fantastic book on the F1, cannot remember the name at the mo (at work) which goes into great detail on the development of the F1. well worth buying if anyone has an interest in engineering.
Would like to also say that for many of us it is fascinating to hear about these cars from someone that owns one.
Saw one in the car park at last years Goodwood Revival meeting, it was in a dark gray colour. Just looked so compact and subtle and the engineering quality was sensational.
To my mind far more desirable than all these bloated Ferraris around...
Just to mention that there is a fantastic book on the F1, cannot remember the name at the mo (at work) which goes into great detail on the development of the F1. well worth buying if anyone has an interest in engineering.
Would like to also say that for many of us it is fascinating to hear about these cars from someone that owns one.
tiga84 said:
how long have you had the car for now, and equally so, how often do you use it? I'm sure most people would say I'd drive it every day without fail, but as you've got access to other exotica etc, how much do you actually get out in it?
Secondly, clearly the 'Ring is a passion of yours, does it get used more at the Ring than on the roads?
Just curious to how usable it is versus how often you actually think, hmmm, I'll take the Macca.
tiga,
I bought it about five years ago. For two years the car's suspension has been under development; during that time I have only driven it occasionally to check geometry changes, different tyres, go to MOT, etc - maybe 1500 miles in total. Before that I was driving it about 1,000 miles/month when the weather was decent.
It's not particularly good at the 'ring because it's so powerful but has little if any downforce, and then there are the suspension issues. Laps of the 'ring are good for testing, but not fun in the way that, say, laps in a GT3, M3 or Seven are. When we're finished with the suspension/tyres the car will be better there, but still you'd never get close to putting your foot down along Flugplatz or up Kesselchen.
You wouldn't use the car every day. For one thing, parking is a right pain. For another, it's no fun to be stared at. Getting in and out is a nuisance, and adds to the feeling of being stared at. The turning circle is 41 feet (on the LMs and HDK cars it's more like 60). You need to be driving at least, say, fifty miles on fairly clear roads to have sufficient opportunity for fun; much less and it feels like complete overkill.
flemke said:
I bought it about five years ago. For two years the car's suspension has been under development; during that time I have only driven it occasionally to check geometry changes, different tyres, go to MOT, etc - maybe 1500 miles in total. Before that I was driving it about 1,000 miles/month when the weather was decent.
It's not particularly good at the 'ring because it's so powerful but has little if any downforce, and then there are the suspension issues. Laps of the 'ring are good for testing, but not fun in the way that, say, laps in a GT3, M3 or Seven are. When we're finished with the suspension/tyres the car will be better there, but still you'd never get close to putting your foot down along Flugplatz or up Kesselchen.
You wouldn't use the car every day. For one thing, parking is a right pain. For another, it's no fun to be stared at. Getting in and out is a nuisance, and adds to the feeling of being stared at. The turning circle is 41 feet (on the LMs and HDK cars it's more like 60). You need to be driving at least, say, fifty miles on fairly clear roads to have sufficient opportunity for fun; much less and it feels like complete overkill.
Must be hard for you
Still, I bets its nice to have in the garage for that 'perfect' day. Oh
>> Edited by hobo on Wednesday 7th December 13:43
milleman said:It's called Driving Ambition - The official inside story of the McLaren F1 and was written by Doug Nye, with credits to Dennis and Murray. Published by Virgin; 271 pages and hundreds of colour photographs.
Just to mention that there is a fantastic book on the F1, cannot remember the name at the mo (at work) which goes into great detail on the development of the F1. well worth buying if anyone has an interest in engineering.
The book first came out in around 1999.The original price was £30. That sold out, so the next year they did a second printing priced at £40. I think that they next did a third, at £50. (This was Virgin setting the price, not Ron). This brought us to about 2003.
In '03 they did another printing. Exact same book - £60. Funny thing - no one bought it anymore. It gathered dust on booksellers shelves for 18 months.
Early this year you suddenly saw copies "remaindered". At motoring book shops you could now get new, sealed copies for £17.95, sometimes £15.95. I don't know if these shops have any left today, but at that price they were quite a bargain.
The book is darn good. It covers the car's origins in the M6GT road car which Bruce McLaren built in 1968-9. This was followed twenty years later by a conversation in an airport lounge between, IIRC, Dennis, Murray, and Mansour Ojjeh (who at the time owned 50% of McL., now diluted to 30%), which sparked the modern road car project. The reader is then taken through all the areas of development (most interesting are probably basic principles, engine, gearbox, aero, and testing programme). There are several chapters on the race history '95-'97+, one on the LM, one on the GT road car.
If you're generally interested and have got a spare twenty, it would be worth getting a copy.
flemke said:
how long have you had the car for now, and equally so, how often do you use it? I'm sure most people would say I'd drive it every day without fail, but as you've got access to other exotica etc, how much do you actually get out in it?
Secondly, clearly the 'Ring is a passion of yours, does it get used more at the Ring than on the roads?
Just curious to how usable it is versus how often you actually think, hmmm, I'll take the Macca.
tiga,
I bought it about five years ago. For two years the car's suspension has been under development; during that time I have only driven it occasionally to check geometry changes, different tyres, go to MOT, etc - maybe 1500 miles in total. Before that I was driving it about 1,000 miles/month when the weather was decent.
It's not particularly good at the 'ring because it's so powerful but has little if any downforce, and then there are the suspension issues. Laps of the 'ring are good for testing, but not fun in the way that, say, laps in a GT3, M3 or Seven are. When we're finished with the suspension/tyres the car will be better there, but still you'd never get close to putting your foot down along Flugplatz or up Kesselchen.
You wouldn't use the car every day. For one thing, parking is a right pain. For another, it's no fun to be stared at. Getting in and out is a nuisance, and adds to the feeling of being stared at. The turning circle is 41 feet (on the LMs and HDK cars it's more like 60). You need to be driving at least, say, fifty miles on fairly clear roads to have sufficient opportunity for fun; much less and it feels like complete overkill.
Cheers Flemke, didn't realise that the suspension is so apparently under-developed. You seem to have done a lot of work with regards to tyres, geometry (I think I recall seeing a picture with a different steering wheel as well), your knowledge of car set-up and modifications on the technical side of things, I have to ask, is there a racing pedigree of any kind in your history? or is it merely a case of a love of all things engineering/technical and a canvas to play on?
flemke said:
Must be hard for you
You forget. I drive a TVR, so I'm used to looking a twit, albeit for different reasons.
I'd be more than happy to give it a go though, purely for research you understand.
tiga - Have done a tiny bit of racing, but in that I've got less pedigree than a junkyard dog. No technical background either.
The engineering does get interesting. I have had to learn a certain amount as I've gone along because there was no one (of whom I knew at least) who could be the "general contractor" on the project; I've had to do that myself, and in the process I have learned enough to know that I know nothing. Suspension and handling dynamics are unbelievably complicated.
The steering wheel with which I was experimenting was a bigger diameter. The car's steering off-centre can get heavy, and we had added caster which made it heavier still. The bigger wheel gives your arms more leverage and allows for more precise corrections, at the expense of being more unwieldy
The car in most ways seemed just right, yet it had some serious issues and I was too obsessive to let them be.
Batty - Daily driver 993 TT-S
>> Edited by flemke on Wednesday 7th December 14:56
The engineering does get interesting. I have had to learn a certain amount as I've gone along because there was no one (of whom I knew at least) who could be the "general contractor" on the project; I've had to do that myself, and in the process I have learned enough to know that I know nothing. Suspension and handling dynamics are unbelievably complicated.
The steering wheel with which I was experimenting was a bigger diameter. The car's steering off-centre can get heavy, and we had added caster which made it heavier still. The bigger wheel gives your arms more leverage and allows for more precise corrections, at the expense of being more unwieldy
The car in most ways seemed just right, yet it had some serious issues and I was too obsessive to let them be.
Batty - Daily driver 993 TT-S
>> Edited by flemke on Wednesday 7th December 14:56
flemke said:
tiga - Have done a tiny bit of racing, but in that I've got less pedigree than a junkyard dog. No technical background either.
The engineering does get interesting. I have had to learn a certain amount as I've gone along because there was no one (of whom I knew at least) who could be the "general contractor" on the project; I've had to do that myself, and in the process I have learned enough to know that I know nothing. Suspension and handling dynamics are unbelievably complicated.
The steering wheel with which I was experimenting was a bigger diameter. The car's steering off-centre can get heavy, and we had added caster which made it heavier still. The bigger wheel gives your arms more leverage and allows for more precise corrections, at the expense of being more unwieldy
The car in most ways seemed just right, yet it had some serious issues and I was too obsessive to let them be.
Batty - Daily driver 993 TT-S
>> Edited by flemke on Wednesday 7th December 14:56
Cheers again Flemke, nice to have an insight on to usually unattainable stuff.
flemke said:
The engineering does get interesting
If I was in a position to be able to buy such a machine I imagine I'd get sucked into the engineering and history just as you have.
Thanks again for sharing your experiences and knowledge with us.
Driving Ambition (which coincidentally features an A-pillar mirrored F1 on the cover) is now on my Xmas list. Amazon and Play selling it for around £40-odd and Virgin are still asking £60
"Driving Ambition" is also the name of separate books about Mario Andretti & Richard Burns so even if she gets the wrong one I'll still get a good read!
thekirbyfake said:Just in case, why don't you try the UK motoring book specialists such as Motorbooks, Chaters' and Mill House? As recently as the summer the first two had quite a few copies offered below £20.
Driving Ambition (which coincidentally features an A-pillar mirrored F1 on the cover) is now on my Xmas list. Amazon and Play selling it for around £40-odd and Virgin are still asking £60
aasc said:The engine was bespoke. It took BMW Motorsport more than two years between conception and production of the first working prototype.
I know I should RTFM but are the origins of the engine two M3 engines mated together or does it originate elsewhere or was it entirely bespoke?
BMW obviously knew a lot about how to build a great engine before the F1 project came along, and if they had something that was good you would expect them to exploit it whenever they could.
The E30 engine was a beauty. BMW applied some of what they had developed for the top end of that engine to the F1 engine, which technically they called the S70/2.
dinkel said:I have not yet changed from leather to cloth, but will probably do that after the suspension project is completed. May be better suited to the driver's seat than to the passengers'.
It does doesn't it? Flemke, still got the cloth seats? Love that over leather . . . Amazing your Macca hasn't got a PH-feature yet.
I'm not sure what sort of PH feature you are thinking of. Pretty regularly the motoring media express interest in something or other. Here again, I want the car to be finished first, then I'll think about the incidental stuff.
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