Diesel Additive - Minimum Level

Diesel Additive - Minimum Level

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Discussion

C5Mark

1 posts

194 months

Wednesday 30th January 2008
quotequote all
I have read lots on the subject of Diesel Additive.

My C5 (2.2 HDI) started with the dreaded 'Minimum Level' message at almost spot on 50,000 miles,but unlike some other users, the message was not permanent. Each time I filled the tank, it re-assessed the additive level and approx. 25% of the time generated the message. Once the message was activated, it reported it every start-up, until next time I filled up.

I contacted my local citroen dealer who had delight in telling me to expect a bill of about £500 to refill the tank and clear the message. He informed me that the car has no level sensor for the additive tank and 'guesses' the need for a refill based on the amount of additive it has used over the years. This was the reason that the computer needed to be 'told' that the refill had occured. The cost breakdown was about £100 for the ELOYS fluid and £400 labour (filling + EDU reset).

This story didn't seem to fit with the facts. If the EDU had counted how much fluid it had used why was the message appearing randomly every time I filled up ?

I contacted a local Indy and was told a completely different story. They claimed that the additive tank does have a sensor which becomes exposed when the fluid level drops to minimum. They also stated that in their experience, once the sensor is exposed to the air it becomes useless and the whole additive tank needs replacing. Also, once the message appears, the car will not attempt to add the additive even though there may well be some still in the tank. Not responding to the message quickly can result in a blocked particulate filter (expensive !!) or even worse, blow up your turbo. Cost to replace tank and fill ... £400.

I then read in a forum that Citroen sell a DIY refill kit for the diesel additive. Why would they do this if the EDU needs resetting ??

I contacted Citroen again to ask about the refill kit, which turned out to be in stock. Why wasn't I told about this when I last discussed the additive ? Er, they couldn't answer that.

I bought the refill kit. They insisted on selling me 5.5 litres. The kit itself consists of a 4.5 litre container of fluid and a 1 litre empty container with pipe and bung to allow you to fill the tank a litre at a time. This cost £77 + vat. The extra 1 litre of fluid was in a seperate box and cost a whopping £34 + vat. I asked if I would need to bring the car to them to have the EDU reset. The service guy coughed and spluttered and said he wasn't sure !! This is Citroen for god sake !!

Filling the tank is a doddle, just pull off the cap to the tank refill port, stuff in the bung and let gravity do the work. I checked my tank with some bent wire before filling, and yes, it was empty. How much did I fit in ? 4 litres !! I took the unopened 1 litre bottle back to Citroen and demanded a refund, which they begrudgingly paid.

Now for the crutial bit. I filled up with diesel. The message dissapeared. It has not returned since (done 5,000 miles).

So, in the end, I guess everyone was lying to some extent.

If you go down the refill kit route, make sure you have your chassis number handy when you order, cos' the type of fluid you need changes with engine model number.

Daisrai

1 posts

193 months

Tuesday 12th February 2008
quotequote all
Hi! I have a citroen C8 also and last Wednesday the fuel addative came on saying min level contact dealer!!! Nothing in handbook, so took it to the dealer who came up with all sorts.........oh! "Big Job". Everytime I've had to take it into the dealer, its always a big job. Don't know whether to take it to the local garage, but they don't anything about it.. I was quoted £30 a litre but the Citroen garage said its alot more than that!!! Can anyone help. Would help if we knew where the tank was situated. Been told its under the back seats. Dais

kieronic

1 posts

192 months

Monday 31st March 2008
quotequote all
C5Mark said:
I have read lots on the subject of Diesel Additive.

My C5 (2.2 HDI) started with the dreaded 'Minimum Level' message at almost spot on 50,000 miles,but unlike some other users, the message was not permanent. Each time I filled the tank, it re-assessed the additive level and approx. 25% of the time generated the message. Once the message was activated, it reported it every start-up, until next time I filled up.

I contacted my local citroen dealer who had delight in telling me to expect a bill of about £500 to refill the tank and clear the message. He informed me that the car has no level sensor for the additive tank and 'guesses' the need for a refill based on the amount of additive it has used over the years. This was the reason that the computer needed to be 'told' that the refill had occured. The cost breakdown was about £100 for the ELOYS fluid and £400 labour (filling + EDU reset).

This story didn't seem to fit with the facts. If the EDU had counted how much fluid it had used why was the message appearing randomly every time I filled up ?

I contacted a local Indy and was told a completely different story. They claimed that the additive tank does have a sensor which becomes exposed when the fluid level drops to minimum. They also stated that in their experience, once the sensor is exposed to the air it becomes useless and the whole additive tank needs replacing. Also, once the message appears, the car will not attempt to add the additive even though there may well be some still in the tank. Not responding to the message quickly can result in a blocked particulate filter (expensive !!) or even worse, blow up your turbo. Cost to replace tank and fill ... £400.

I then read in a forum that Citroen sell a DIY refill kit for the diesel additive. Why would they do this if the EDU needs resetting ??

I contacted Citroen again to ask about the refill kit, which turned out to be in stock. Why wasn't I told about this when I last discussed the additive ? Er, they couldn't answer that.

I bought the refill kit. They insisted on selling me 5.5 litres. The kit itself consists of a 4.5 litre container of fluid and a 1 litre empty container with pipe and bung to allow you to fill the tank a litre at a time. This cost £77 + vat. The extra 1 litre of fluid was in a seperate box and cost a whopping £34 + vat. I asked if I would need to bring the car to them to have the EDU reset. The service guy coughed and spluttered and said he wasn't sure !! This is Citroen for god sake !!

Filling the tank is a doddle, just pull off the cap to the tank refill port, stuff in the bung and let gravity do the work. I checked my tank with some bent wire before filling, and yes, it was empty. How much did I fit in ? 4 litres !! I took the unopened 1 litre bottle back to Citroen and demanded a refund, which they begrudgingly paid.

Now for the crutial bit. I filled up with diesel. The message dissapeared. It has not returned since (done 5,000 miles).

So, in the end, I guess everyone was lying to some extent.

If you go down the refill kit route, make sure you have your chassis number handy when you order, cos' the type of fluid you need changes with engine model number.
Thanks for the advice!! Do you know if this applies to Peugeots as well?

Cheers, K

kfautos

1 posts

188 months

Sunday 6th July 2008
quotequote all
hello all
c8mark is dead right,my warning light came on at 67,000,i bought the additive kit from citroen for £74 quid as he said,i asked the guy in citroen where the tank was,and on my c8 2.0 hdi 2004 its underneath on the passengerside just in front of the diesel tank,you can't miss it.
you do need the chassis number and you also need to have a look at the tank before phoning at there are two types of filler nossils,one is white one is green,if you look at the additive tank you'll see a pipe on the side that is one of those push on types that you have to squeeze to take off,look at the colour on the part that pushes on the tank,it will be either black and green or black and white.
once you've got the additive kit,fill the filler bottle up,screw the pipe onto the top of the filler bottle,look at the tank again and you'll see a filler pipe on the top in the center with like an end thats not connected to anything,its kind of difficult to see but it is there,when you've got it,pull the blank end off it,push the filler bottle pipe into it lift the bottle up to around door handle height,open the red tap on the filler bottle and let the additive drain into the tank,you can squeeze gently to speed the process up,when the first litre of additive is in remmember to turn the red tape closed or you'll get soaked as i did!! DERRRR!.
repeat the process untill all the additive is used.
the only thing with mine is the dam light still beeps at me,but hay i know its in there and the cars running better!!,bobs your uncle.
i do have previous mechanical experience but i think anyone thats not an air head will do it no problem,DON'T GET RIPPED OFF DO IT YOURSELF.
sorry for going on a bit but thaks to c8mark i saved a load of cash and it was dead easy. THANKS MARK.
all the best everyone,warwick.

ledcam49

1 posts

186 months

Friday 5th September 2008
quotequote all
I have a 2.2 HDi C8 which just passed the 51,000 mile mark: "DIESEL ADDITIVE MINIMUM LEVEL" flashed up earlier today. I called the local Citroen dealer as I happened to be half a mile away. As usual it was not possible to speak to a technician and they would not look at the car on-spec; but I too got the "this is going to cost you a lot of money to fix" message. Basically this thing seems to be like a trip-wire just waiting for you at 50000 miles. Having paid £214 for a pair of new front coil springs last week (courtesy of Kwik Fit as again Citroen would not even look at the car) I'm tempted to just to leave it, however has anyone got the definite solution on this one?

Citreon Owner!

1 posts

179 months

Wednesday 8th April 2009
quotequote all
I have the Diesel additive level at mnimum level warning on a Citreon C5 110,000 miles. Citreon quoted £400 for the filter and the addititive.

Does it need to be filled up or can you leave it low?

Any help appreciated

mas99

4,725 posts

183 months

Wednesday 8th April 2009
quotequote all
You need to sort it because the fap filter will block and then the car won't run.

The filter catches soot/particulates. the additive is pumped into the fuel tank on a regular basis and works by causing the soot to burn off on the filter. No additive = filter blockage.

I've reac conflicting info about the ease of diy refills. Some people say it works fine, others have all sorts of problems. There is a pressure sensor which checks the pressure differential across the filter. This can fail (and seems to regularly do so). There are also issues with the sensors on the tank, the fuel filler cap, etc, etc.

This is why I have never had the nerve to buy a c8/807 despite them being ideal for my family.

It is also why lots of cit/pugs are for sale around 50-90K. Any dealer/private seller who says 'whats a fap?' when asked....


... well they wont get my business.

peugoetparlava

1 posts

159 months

Thursday 16th December 2010
quotequote all
Reading some of the comments about diesel additive and having problems resetting the warning light after they had put it in themselves and the cost of the additive alone and i also had another warning light already on (airbag fault)i decided to get peugeot to do it.It cost £32.76+vat to check why the diesel additive low warning light was on (well the clue is in the title)once they had found out the diesel additive was low it took 4litres of the stuff £82.16+vat for 3litres and £33.16+vat for the 4th litre as it come in 3litre bottles+labour(total£325.00)but when they called me to tell me that my car(307 SW HDI 04)was ready they told me they can not turn off the warning light and after running further checks they say the additive ECU is not responding and i need a new one £217.00..Well i can deal with the light coming on..so i know it`s in the tank and i have receipts to prove it..but i could of saved money doing it myself so i hope this gives someone the chance to get it topped up before the light comes on but unfortunately i only looked up this problem on the internet when the warning light came on which it will do on many other peugeot and citreons owners cars..p.s my cars has just over 96k on the clock, i bought it from a car supermaket 2 years ago so i have know receipts so i have know idea if it has been refilled before..

jbi

12,668 posts

203 months

Thursday 16th December 2010
quotequote all
another reason to avoid modern diesels...

milooshea

1 posts

159 months

Thursday 30th December 2010
quotequote all
Many thanks for all the helpful advice, especially KFAUTOS detailed comments. I got the standard rip-off quote from the local Citroen dealer's service dept, who neglected to mention the DIY kit, but then I looked at Pistonheads...I rang the parts dept, gave them my registration number and they were able to produce the correct kit off the shelf. That'll be £90.85, thank you sir, done, you have been. The kit contains 3L gloop, a plastic tube with a bottle top and valve at one end and a green and black connector at the other. It also contained a filler bottle, a spare bottle top, an 8" length of plastic tube, a metal hook and about 12" of plastic 'string'. No instructions. I found the blank, as described by KFAUTOS, took it off and found that the connector supplied would fit into it but not actually lock on to it. Presumably intended for a different model. I used the string to tie the connector in place, the metal 'meat hook' to lift the hose off the ground and attach it to the chassis, filled the filler bottle and connected the hose to it. The filler seemed to operate best if held horizontally, with the valve open, while squeezing the bottle gently. Closed valve, unscrewed top, repeated procedure etc. Barring a few dribbles that ran down the hose, all the liquid went into the tank. On restart the error message has disappeared; so I appear to have done something right!

Again, many thanks for the really helpful advice. Now to make a satisfying call to the service dept of Citroen, cancelling next week's appointment!

Milo

Now for the sequel: performance of the car noticeably improved, but the warning message reappeared at every restart. I discussed with my local indy garage, in whom I have great confidence. The reckoned a computer reset of the warning indicator was required. I decided to ignore it until the next service was due. I explained the problem prior to the service. During the service they rang and said that they had run a reset but now the additive tank registered as empty. I explained why this was not the case - I'd recently refilled it. They did some more investigation. Using a portable computer about the size of a large dictionary that they have on site, they took the C8 out on the road and followed a set of instructions they had obtained from I know not where. They drove the car for 'over 3km at over 50km an hour', stopped, connected the computer (which has a special set of miniature printed circuit cards, the relevant one of which needs to be plugged in before reset), followed the instructions, opened the filler cap for 10 seconds, and bingo the reset was completed. When I went to collect the car the mechanics rushed out and shook my hand, saying they'd 'cracked it', they were so delighted at having solved a mystery. Cost of full service: £261. Reset: no charge.

Edited by milooshea on Saturday 14th May 11:38

labman

7 posts

207 months

Monday 2nd July 2012
quotequote all
Armed with all the info from this topic I called my local Citroen Dealer and asked for the price of a refill kit then asked how much it would cost for them to put it in the car for me and reset the computer. £200(ish) inc. VAT. I'm quite happy with that after reading some of the posts here.


  • UPDATE**
I collected my car from Citroen and paid £206. When I arrived home the warning message came up on the dash again :-( I called Citroen and they said it will probably reset itself over the weekend, if not bring it in again) guess what, it didn't. I now have to find time to take it back this week.

Edited by labman on Monday 9th July 09:56

c82003

1 posts

115 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
hi guys mmmmmmmm i need help. i have a citroen c8 2003 20hdi , at around 113 k i got a diesel additive warning saying diesel additive low , i went to a citroen dealer who quoted me £450 to replace the additive and then to me i needed to have a small part of the wiring loom by the diesel cap and a new diesel cap replaced and then it needed to be recoded lot of money , anyway i went to halfords BIG mistake who did the job for £159 car was done no warning lights back to normal two days later the engine managment light came on and went into limp mode with the warning antipolution fault , i took the car back and asked what they had done , they just done the fluid, i told them about the loom and cap and never knew anythin about that they had to be replaced so i sed they do , so they did it cleared the code and all was well ,, 4 days later back into limp mode and antipolution warning took it back they had it for half hour and sed it was done codes clear all was well .... this has been going on since 18/04/14 at my wits end now ... after investigating i THINK that halfords never reprogramed the ecu to say it was full and that the new loom with the magnets on it had been replaced which citroen says needs doing . can anyone tell me is the antipolution fault linked to the diesel addative ,and do some c8's need to be reprogramed ,,,,,

Steve H

5,224 posts

194 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
c82003 said:
hi guys mmmmmmmm i need help. i have a citroen c8 2003 20hdi , at around 113 k i got a diesel additive warning saying diesel additive low , i went to a citroen dealer who quoted me £450 to replace the additive and then to me i needed to have a small part of the wiring loom by the diesel cap and a new diesel cap replaced and then it needed to be recoded lot of money , anyway i went to halfords BIG mistake who did the job for £159 car was done no warning lights back to normal two days later the engine managment light came on and went into limp mode with the warning antipolution fault , i took the car back and asked what they had done , they just done the fluid, i told them about the loom and cap and never knew anythin about that they had to be replaced so i sed they do , so they did it cleared the code and all was well ,, 4 days later back into limp mode and antipolution warning took it back they had it for half hour and sed it was done codes clear all was well .... this has been going on since 18/04/14 at my wits end now ... after investigating i THINK that halfords never reprogramed the ecu to say it was full and that the new loom with the magnets on it had been replaced which citroen says needs doing . can anyone tell me is the antipolution fault linked to the diesel addative ,and do some c8's need to be reprogramed ,,,,,
To the questions in your last sentence, yes and yes.

To the rest, please use paragraphs and better punctuation.