Greatest all weather point-to-point car?
Discussion
Read the title of the POST, it said ALL weather.
If Brits had to drive a bit more in treacherous snowy conditions, the arm chair afficionados wouldn't come out with drivle such as this. I'm a bigger fan of RWD in most, mainly dry conditions, but in the snow, winter tyres or not, forget it!
Noble
We're going to get people putting forward Motorbikes next!
If Brits had to drive a bit more in treacherous snowy conditions, the arm chair afficionados wouldn't come out with drivle such as this. I'm a bigger fan of RWD in most, mainly dry conditions, but in the snow, winter tyres or not, forget it!
Noble
We're going to get people putting forward Motorbikes next!
francisb said:
I'd love to see a RWD try and keep up with a top flight 4x4 car in slipperly conditions
Not easy, but not impossible
who are you trying to kid? perhaps the wrc teams should disconnect the front driveshafts?
With the breadth of driving ability in the WRC, obviously not. Are you trying to suggest that everybody has the skills of Marcus Gronholm?
Combover
Just been reading Chris Harris (who drives all these for a living) and he reckons the only car that comes close to the 996tt for all weather point to point is the new RS4.
Hmmmm... maybe I should put my name down for an Avant
Out of interest I've had the 996tt, an RS6, an R500, an Elise and an E46 M3 on very slippery, hilly roads in the Highlands of Scotland over the past 6 years (and have welcomed many friends with fast cars up for 'outings'). And the 996tt was by FAR the quickest in the wet - simply nothing will keep up with it. (But it couldn't live with the R500 in the dry
).
edited to add... as mentioned before - my observations relate to the 996tt not on country lanes in England (where I'm sure quick Jap 4x4s could keep up)
but on wide, empty West Highland roads which are quick with a capital F - and it's at really high speed in the wet that the porker is truly astonishing.
>> Edited by GetCarter on Tuesday 21st March 10:04
Hmmmm... maybe I should put my name down for an Avant
Out of interest I've had the 996tt, an RS6, an R500, an Elise and an E46 M3 on very slippery, hilly roads in the Highlands of Scotland over the past 6 years (and have welcomed many friends with fast cars up for 'outings'). And the 996tt was by FAR the quickest in the wet - simply nothing will keep up with it. (But it couldn't live with the R500 in the dry
). edited to add... as mentioned before - my observations relate to the 996tt not on country lanes in England (where I'm sure quick Jap 4x4s could keep up)
but on wide, empty West Highland roads which are quick with a capital F - and it's at really high speed in the wet that the porker is truly astonishing.
>> Edited by GetCarter on Tuesday 21st March 10:04
francisb said:
I'd love to see a RWD try and keep up with a top flight 4x4 car in slipperly conditions
Not easy, but not impossible
who are you trying to kid? perhaps the wrc teams should disconnect the front driveshafts?
Its all weather point to point not all weather check point to check point. I dont really see the relevance of your reply.
I think the point is that until you've driven a fast 4wd car in inclement weather you probably have no idea how much extra grip it can find over a 2wd car.
I remember being simply astonished each and every time I took my Integrale out in the rain for a blast round wet, greasy, bumpy backroads. You could simply bury the throttle earlier and earlier out of each corner and the thing would just 'find' grip where there was none. I guess it's a combination of double the amount of contact area, physically seperate contact patches and the ability to divide power by 4 rather than 2. All seemed to add up to much more more than double the grip of a 2wd car.
It's only problem was on the track where it had the speed, but too much weight, skinny tyres and the aerodynamics of, well, a Lancia Delta. A car I had shortly afterwards was a Clio 16v. A great chassis, probably half the weight, and 3/4 of the power - it got me thinking that perhaps something light and nimble with a fair bit of power could give the big boys a run for their money. The Williams was another step forward too - not very rewarding, but boy could you chuck that thing around!
I remember being simply astonished each and every time I took my Integrale out in the rain for a blast round wet, greasy, bumpy backroads. You could simply bury the throttle earlier and earlier out of each corner and the thing would just 'find' grip where there was none. I guess it's a combination of double the amount of contact area, physically seperate contact patches and the ability to divide power by 4 rather than 2. All seemed to add up to much more more than double the grip of a 2wd car.
It's only problem was on the track where it had the speed, but too much weight, skinny tyres and the aerodynamics of, well, a Lancia Delta. A car I had shortly afterwards was a Clio 16v. A great chassis, probably half the weight, and 3/4 of the power - it got me thinking that perhaps something light and nimble with a fair bit of power could give the big boys a run for their money. The Williams was another step forward too - not very rewarding, but boy could you chuck that thing around!
Nick J said:
Its all weather point to point not all weather check point to check point.
im sorry i didnt realise the "greatest point to point car" meant keeping within speed limits, in which case might as well be a 1000cc mini. im not suggesting a rally car as greatest car im just using it as an example of why the layout is superior.
Nick J said:
I dont really see the relevance of your reply.
if you dont see the relevance im not sure i can help you. let me try spelling it out. in slippery conditions 4wd is vastly better than 2wd, thats why race cars that race in slippery conditions use it.
RobbieMeister said:
As eveyone seems to be to reduced to opinions based on someone elses opinions here is one from personal experience:
Toyota Celica GT4 (ST185)
Competent car, but not enough power for today's competition. I'd suggest a 111R, personally. One of the fastest chassis through the corners money can buy, good power/weight ratio, and not too silly that it'll spin in the rain when driven moderately hard.
I would have volounteered the S2000, but in the rain it's a bit of a handful unless you know how to handle it, and on cold tyres it's a liability!
R988 said:
go on my son! 
Excellent, lovely to see full commitment! 
Is all weather driving just about how much balls you have to push it..? I personally don't see AWD cars being guaranteed quicker in the wet, but it is generally true that their margin of error is greater.
More care is needed in car set up, and driving ability (read smoothness, ability to read road like camber, tarmac condition etc) but ultimately they can be driven with surprising speed in poor conditions.
francisb said:
if you dont see the relevance im not sure i can help you. let me try spelling it out. in slippery conditions 4wd is vastly better than 2wd, thats why race cars that race in slippery conditions use it.
Cant remember the last time I saw a 4WD F1 car in the wet
Or the WRC disconnecting the 4WD in the dry tarmac stages
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