ChipsAway reviews on the forums
Discussion
Chips Away Guy said:
That contract requires them to use the ChipsAway paint systems (only), which are not available to anyone else.
To the best of my knowledge ChipsAway use a standard DuPont paint mixing system which uses utilizes their (Du Ponts) standard binding and bonding agents.
The single pack laquer you refer to has a high concentration of solvent to enable easy blending out of repairs, hence it's lack of durability.
I wonder if you can confirm categorically whether the two pack laquer that you advocate using for larger more durable repairs contains any iscocyanates ? To provide the durability mentioned (and the curing times required), would normally require the use of these potentially lethal materials within the catalyst.
I would agree with your comment that just because an operative services trade customers it doesn't automatically follow they'll be offering a high standard of service/quality repair. However plenty of your fellow franchises operate at prestige brand retail outlets and provide a top quality service.
I would however take issue with your comments regarding financial institutions being more than happy to lend money against the purchase of a ChipsAway franchise, I personally know one such manager (who worked for one of the big High street banks) who categorically would NOT sanction the loan of funds for such purchases.
Having seen the support afforded two franchises during their formative months he was disgusted by ChipsAways cavalier attitude towards them.
One must remember that once the franchise has been sold, Chipsaway stand to lose no monies whatsoever (apart from the sale of materials over the franchise period and the weekly "management" fee) should the franchisee not make a success out of the business.
I beleive your comments regarding the name ChipsAway may be erroneous. I seem to recall the founder of the system (Dan Pikur) initially came up with a technique for chip repairs and then subsequently devised a method using the same paints (and initially the same cheap airbrushes you spoke of so disparagingly ) to do SMART repairs, I do stand to be corrected on this last point though.
Slippy
>> Edited by slippydiff on Wednesday 17th May 21:39
>> Edited by slippydiff on Thursday 18th May 00:58
The base tinting/binder system is Dupont's Centari 6000. Although obviously that's all about to change with the new regs phasing out solvent-based products.
The Dupont tinters, binders and additives are supplied to the franchisees having been put through the Pittsburgh CA plant. Exactly what chemical processes happen to them are the subject of much debate within the network, and are the basis of a lot of protected intellectual property. Some of the grumpier franchisees have aired their doubt that the end product is any different - but since the legal basis for requiring exclusive use of CA branded paint components in the network is the CA process positively affecting the quality, the master franchisors would stand to lose literally millions of dollars/pounds if a disaffected franchisee disputed the claim in court and was shown to be right. Not having had the basic Centari and the CA-processed equivalent put through a mass spectrometer, I couldn't call it either way with certainty ;-)
At the last franchisee meeting two of the CA guys with (IIRC) 25 and 35 years of bodyshop experience prior to CA both came out absolutely with their opinions that the CA products are capable of far more than SMART repairs done with off-the-shelf Dupont. Personally I've no basis for making a comparison. The lacquers are completely proprietary, however.
Mirraclear (the two pack lacquer system) is absolutely iso-free. If anything, that's CA's unique selling point in the market as I perceive it - that it offers mobile SMART repairs with a non-iso two pack that stands up to the rigours of automotive use. There have been a few cases of unscrupulous independent SMART repairers using iso two-packs in an uncontrolled environment - ie a customer's drive. Unsurprisingly, the Environmental Health people get a little grumpy when they find out about it.
You may well be right about the 'chip' branding; although the PC52 system is the entire base system taught in the UK, I see from the US CA website that it's an addition to a stand-alone chip repair system.
As for being disparaging about the airbrushes, I'll happily agree that they're up to chip touch-ins. Attempting to use equipment of that spray pattern and quality on larger SMART repairs is a recipe for a finish that will not satisfy a discerning customer though.
We in the franchise network are fully aware that the job of the franchisees is to make a living doing repairs, and the job of the franchisor is to make money out of the franchisees. But failing franchises make for a bad reputation as a franchisor, and failing due to insufficient support would be a good case for a lawsuit claiming a breach of the franchise agreement obligations. And no franchisor would want the massive damage that comes from being sued by one of your own network - win or lose.
We've been parachuted in on more than one occasion to assist early businesses having difficulty in our role as business development mentors, and at each time paid for by the franchisor to the tune of a bill in the thousands. There has been a change of ownership of the UK franchisor in recent years though, and the current directors seem to be universally recognised by the network as substiantially more committed to supporting the franchisees than the outgoing team (who predated us joining).
Talking to recent starters who used bank finance to begin the business, the story was all very positive, although I think there is now a preferential CA-startup loan package with (again IIRC) HSBC.
T&M
The Dupont tinters, binders and additives are supplied to the franchisees having been put through the Pittsburgh CA plant. Exactly what chemical processes happen to them are the subject of much debate within the network, and are the basis of a lot of protected intellectual property. Some of the grumpier franchisees have aired their doubt that the end product is any different - but since the legal basis for requiring exclusive use of CA branded paint components in the network is the CA process positively affecting the quality, the master franchisors would stand to lose literally millions of dollars/pounds if a disaffected franchisee disputed the claim in court and was shown to be right. Not having had the basic Centari and the CA-processed equivalent put through a mass spectrometer, I couldn't call it either way with certainty ;-)
At the last franchisee meeting two of the CA guys with (IIRC) 25 and 35 years of bodyshop experience prior to CA both came out absolutely with their opinions that the CA products are capable of far more than SMART repairs done with off-the-shelf Dupont. Personally I've no basis for making a comparison. The lacquers are completely proprietary, however.
Mirraclear (the two pack lacquer system) is absolutely iso-free. If anything, that's CA's unique selling point in the market as I perceive it - that it offers mobile SMART repairs with a non-iso two pack that stands up to the rigours of automotive use. There have been a few cases of unscrupulous independent SMART repairers using iso two-packs in an uncontrolled environment - ie a customer's drive. Unsurprisingly, the Environmental Health people get a little grumpy when they find out about it.
You may well be right about the 'chip' branding; although the PC52 system is the entire base system taught in the UK, I see from the US CA website that it's an addition to a stand-alone chip repair system.
As for being disparaging about the airbrushes, I'll happily agree that they're up to chip touch-ins. Attempting to use equipment of that spray pattern and quality on larger SMART repairs is a recipe for a finish that will not satisfy a discerning customer though.
We in the franchise network are fully aware that the job of the franchisees is to make a living doing repairs, and the job of the franchisor is to make money out of the franchisees. But failing franchises make for a bad reputation as a franchisor, and failing due to insufficient support would be a good case for a lawsuit claiming a breach of the franchise agreement obligations. And no franchisor would want the massive damage that comes from being sued by one of your own network - win or lose.
We've been parachuted in on more than one occasion to assist early businesses having difficulty in our role as business development mentors, and at each time paid for by the franchisor to the tune of a bill in the thousands. There has been a change of ownership of the UK franchisor in recent years though, and the current directors seem to be universally recognised by the network as substiantially more committed to supporting the franchisees than the outgoing team (who predated us joining).
Talking to recent starters who used bank finance to begin the business, the story was all very positive, although I think there is now a preferential CA-startup loan package with (again IIRC) HSBC.
T&M
Chip Away Guy said:
Mirraclear (the two pack lacquer system) is absolutely iso-free. If anything, that's CA's unique selling point in the market as I perceive it - that it offers mobile SMART repairs with a non-iso two pack that stands up to the rigours of automotive use. There have been a few cases of unscrupulous independent SMART repairers using iso two-packs in an uncontrolled environment - ie a customer's drive. Unsurprisingly, the Environmental Health people get a little grumpy when they find out about it.
C A G, Many thanks for clarifying the Mirraclear system is iscocyanate free. As you will no doubt be aware, the HSE take a very dim view (or get grumpy as you put it !) of Iso based products being used in uncontrolled environments, and have prosecuted on several occasions (rightly so IMO) as the health issues linked with their improper use are well known to all professional paint sprayers.
Hi,
does anyone have any idea how good is the water based painting system? Has ChipsAway started to use it already or are they still using up existing stock of the solvent based system?
In their demonstration they do not use primer (and they make a point to sand down to the metal!). Is it only for the demonstration or don't they really use primer?
Thanks.
does anyone have any idea how good is the water based painting system? Has ChipsAway started to use it already or are they still using up existing stock of the solvent based system?
In their demonstration they do not use primer (and they make a point to sand down to the metal!). Is it only for the demonstration or don't they really use primer?
Thanks.
cvro said:
Hi,
does anyone have any idea how good is the water based painting system? Has ChipsAway started to use it already or are they still using up existing stock of the solvent based system?
In their demonstration they do not use primer (and they make a point to sand down to the metal!). Is it only for the demonstration or don't they really use primer?
Thanks.
does anyone have any idea how good is the water based painting system? Has ChipsAway started to use it already or are they still using up existing stock of the solvent based system?
In their demonstration they do not use primer (and they make a point to sand down to the metal!). Is it only for the demonstration or don't they really use primer?
Thanks.
ChipsAway's waterborne system is currently being introduced throughout the network. Some of the operations have been using it for several months.
The demo days are currently being done with the PC52 single pack solvent system, which does not a include primer as a matter of course. Due to waterbased paint's tendency to show even the slightest irregularity, there will be both 1-k and 2-k primer options for the network when spraying waterbased.
As the VOC regs only prohibit bringing to market solvent paint from the end of this year, in common with a lot of the industry, individual ChipsAway operations may well be working down existing solvent stock in parallel with using the new waterborne system. IIRC, actual use of solvent based paint isn't prohibited until something like 2012.
I've used the waterbased product, and my personal opinion is that it is the best of the three ChipsAway systems - though it takes a little longer than the 1k solvent, our franchise almost exclusively paints 2k, so that's not an issue for us. The evenness that can be achieved with metallic and pearl finishes is great, and bold lacquer application doesn't lead to metallic movement. I can't compare it to other waterborne systems, not having used any - but I believe it is unique in that a waterbased tinter set is then modified to be essentially 2k. This means that once dry, the paint is no longer water soluble. Kinda important when you paint on site, out of doors.
Whatever repair system used, the satisfaction and durability warranty you're entitled to from your operator is exactly the same.
HTH,
CG
) ex aircraft sprayer and MX5OC member. Great service and perfect match on the wafer thin water based(emulsion!)Strato paint on my RX.CG, Your customer service skills are no doubt much better than the average ChipsAway'er.
You mentioned that ChipsAway use particular paints. Could you not source an alternative and go it alone. You could even start your own franchise.
Out of interest. Is good customer service something that's instilled into every CA'er during training.
Welcome to PH's btw.
You mentioned that ChipsAway use particular paints. Could you not source an alternative and go it alone. You could even start your own franchise.
Out of interest. Is good customer service something that's instilled into every CA'er during training.
Welcome to PH's btw.
We've built a local business on the ChipsAway brand. Our marketing makes a lot of the fact that we're not an independent operation - we're part of a network that operates under license. And that license can be (and has been in the past) withdrawn from operators who fail to maintain standards of customer satisfaction. The network will be around in two years time to honour our durability warranty. There's someone to complain to who takes customer complaints seriously if we were to let someone down.
That reassurance element is worth a lot to customers.
Added to that is the fact that, particularly in the motor trade, ChipsAway's reputation as the premium service provider has won us a lot of work, including trade accounts worth thousands of pounds of turnover a month.
So in terms of being an independent - I wouldn't like to have to compete with the business we have now on that basis.
Yes, we do have to cover an ongoing franchise management fee, but that's more than offset by the work we get from ChipsAway Head Office's national advertising, and national accounts with organisations like the AA, Elephant insurance, Walon car transporters, etc etc. And we do see value for that in terms of product R&D, ongoing training (often free), representation on things like the HSE's automotive panel...
As a network, too, we have a great relationship with our franchise neighbours, who provide a great pool for sharing out excess work, specific expertise, holiday cover, etc etc. In any other situation, other operators nearby would be competitors.
The paint is more expensive, being proprietary, but by all accounts, it's more capable than off-the-shelf systems. And in all honesty, even if it were twice the price of a cheaper alternative, materials costs form such a small part of our cost of sale that as a percentage saving, it would be minimal.
As for customer service inputs during the training, yes it's covered. And a lot of the basics are simply compulsory given that the ChipsAway customer charter and warranty are part of the license agreement. Complaints to the Head Office about poor customer service are always followed up; no-one in the network wants the brand reputation to be damaged by a loose cannon...
CG
That reassurance element is worth a lot to customers.
Added to that is the fact that, particularly in the motor trade, ChipsAway's reputation as the premium service provider has won us a lot of work, including trade accounts worth thousands of pounds of turnover a month.
So in terms of being an independent - I wouldn't like to have to compete with the business we have now on that basis.
Yes, we do have to cover an ongoing franchise management fee, but that's more than offset by the work we get from ChipsAway Head Office's national advertising, and national accounts with organisations like the AA, Elephant insurance, Walon car transporters, etc etc. And we do see value for that in terms of product R&D, ongoing training (often free), representation on things like the HSE's automotive panel...
As a network, too, we have a great relationship with our franchise neighbours, who provide a great pool for sharing out excess work, specific expertise, holiday cover, etc etc. In any other situation, other operators nearby would be competitors.
The paint is more expensive, being proprietary, but by all accounts, it's more capable than off-the-shelf systems. And in all honesty, even if it were twice the price of a cheaper alternative, materials costs form such a small part of our cost of sale that as a percentage saving, it would be minimal.
As for customer service inputs during the training, yes it's covered. And a lot of the basics are simply compulsory given that the ChipsAway customer charter and warranty are part of the license agreement. Complaints to the Head Office about poor customer service are always followed up; no-one in the network wants the brand reputation to be damaged by a loose cannon...
CG
ChipsAway Guy said:
...
The demo days are currently being done with the PC52 single pack solvent system, which does not a include primer as a matter of course. Due to waterbased paint's tendency to show even the slightest irregularity, there will be both 1-k and 2-k primer options for the network when spraying waterbased.
...
I've used the waterbased product, and my personal opinion is that it is the best of the three ChipsAway systems - though it takes a little longer than the 1k solvent, our franchise almost exclusively paints 2k, so that's not an issue for us. The evenness that can be achieved with metallic and pearl finishes is great, and bold lacquer application doesn't lead to metallic movement. I can't compare it to other waterborne systems, not having used any - but I believe it is unique in that a waterbased tinter set is then modified to be essentially 2k. This means that once dry, the paint is no longer water soluble. Kinda important when you paint on site, out of doors.
...
CG
Hi,
sorry to bug you with so many questions... but
Why are they still using the PC52 in the demonstrations if the water based product is better (I know it's your personal opinion but I've seen similar claims elsewhere).
For the guys buying into the franchise now are they being trained directly on the waterbased system or still on the solvent based.
Thanks in advance
Just thought I'd say that I've used the Chips Away chappie in the Redditch area, and he did a top notch job after some scrote kicked a muddy football into my door - I know where the damage was, and even I can't find the repair straight away !!
He also did all the little chips around the front end and the arches (bloody gritters !)
All for a very reasonable £100 or there abouts (it was a while ago now !)
He also did all the little chips around the front end and the arches (bloody gritters !)
All for a very reasonable £100 or there abouts (it was a while ago now !)
I had my local ChipsAway guy respray the rear bumper on my XK8 and I have to say he did a brilliant job. The colour match was perfect. Unfortunately looks like I'm going to have ot call him out again as some numpty has managed to scrape the side of the bumper whilst reversing out of a parking spot 
cvro said:
Why are they still using the PC52 in the demonstrations if the water based product is better (I know it's your personal opinion but I've seen similar claims elsewhere).
For the guys buying into the franchise now are they being trained directly on the waterbased system or still on the solvent based.
Thanks in advance
You've hit the nail on the head there - the open days are primarily a franchise sales event, and the training for new franchisees has not yet switched over to the new system - so the PC52 system is being demo'd as it's that system that the prospective franchisees on the open day need to see.
CAG
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