Bad British F1 Drivers

Bad British F1 Drivers

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Discussion

Pwig

11,956 posts

269 months

Thursday 10th November 2016
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Thundersports said:
Ralph Firman was nowhere near F1 quality. The others mentioned were as the likes of Henton, Palmer, Byrne, Acheson, Bailey never had a decent car to show their abilities. Dumfries can't be compared to Senna in the Lotus team as the car he got was a very second rate machine compared to Sennas.
Always remember him for this crash:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOhKhBG_df8


Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Wednesday 16th November 2016
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Always remember Byrne for this crash -


Ructions

4,705 posts

120 months

Saturday 18th March 2017
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Eric Mc said:
freedman said:
Martin Donnelly

Kenny Acheson

Tommy Byrne

Not quite British I guess but none the less
Donelly and Acheson were/are British.

Tommy had other problems which dented his capabilities.
For a fleeting moment in the early 1980s, Dundalk man Tommy Byrne was thought of as the world’s greatest driver, the motor racing equivalent of George Best and Muhammad Ali all rolled into one. But not everything fell into place.

Crash and Burn
Monday 21:00 BBC One NI

https://www.facebook.com/BBCNI/videos/114653323878...


Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Sunday 19th March 2017
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Ooh - that looks worth a watch.

I can get BBC NI on Virgin.

forsure

2,118 posts

267 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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Eric Mc said:
Ooh - that looks worth a watch.

I can get BBC NI on Virgin.
thumbup Hadn't thought of that! So can I ! Thanks.

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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Just realised I'm out this evening. Hopefully, iPlayer will come to the rescue.

Swede123

452 posts

191 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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Nobody has mentioned Guy Edwards, Daly(NI or Eire?) or Davina Galica. Lots of self promotion but in the same league as Hailwood or , Purley ?

coppice

8,562 posts

143 months

Tuesday 21st March 2017
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Guy Edwards was pretty handy actually - he was never going to trouble the front row of a GP grid but did well in sports cars and F5000 ISTR. Divina? Not in the same league as Desire Wilson but her grit and determination were widely admired . It's always easy to sneer at drivers who aren't premier league but then I think to myself -'Well at least they had a bloody go, which is more than you ever did . '

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Tuesday 21st March 2017
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Swede123 said:
Nobody has mentioned Guy Edwards, Daly(NI or Eire?) or Davina Galica. Lots of self promotion but in the same league as Hailwood or , Purley ?
Derek Daly is originally from Dundrum, a suburb of South Dublin - so from the Irish Republic, not Britain.

After his F1 career he moved to the US to race in Indycar Racing. He had a massive accident which more or less finished his career. He became a US citizen and now lives there permanently,. His son, Connor, is currently racing in Indy Car.

The late 70s saw a large contingent of Irish drivers from both sides of the border, which had been a product and affordability of that era of Formula Ford racing. Apart from Daly there was David Kennedy, Kenny Acheson, Tommy Byrne and slightly later, Martin Donnelly.

Even Eddie Jordan was part of that group, although, following a huge accident, he gave up racing and set up his own team.

andy97

4,691 posts

221 months

Tuesday 21st March 2017
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This thread makes me laugh, and sad in equal measure.

There is no such thing as a bad British F1 driver, or a bad F1 driver of any nationality. Sure some may not be as good as others, even by a second a lap or more, but I guarantee that anyone that races in F1 is better than the contributors on this forum.

I wonder what the race pedigree of each and every contributor is that makes them qualified to comment?


coppice

8,562 posts

143 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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Agreed . So easy to sneer ; eg faux outrage re drivers such as Maldonado and Palmer on the grounds of crashing a bit and having a well off dad respectively . The slowest British F1 driver I have seen would probably be Richard Robarts in the Brabham in 74 -sih - but he can reflect in his old age on having raced an F1 car. Me ? I can reflect on having watched a lot of races from trackside. Not the same really ....

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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I'm not a fan of the argument "If you haven't done it, you have no right to an opinion on that topic".

If that was the case, 99% of debate and discussion on 99% of all human activities would cease.

G321

574 posts

203 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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Eric Mc said:
I'm not a fan of the argument "If you haven't done it, you have no right to an opinion on that topic".

If that was the case, 99% of debate and discussion on 99% of all human activities would cease.
Totally agree. If people aren't allowed to pass judgement on something they haven't done at the highest level then the pistonheads forum would be a pretty quiet place.
As for bad British F1 drivers. I can't think of any bad ones but there have been one or two distinctly less than average ones recently.

coppice

8,562 posts

143 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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Depends - fine to opine, less so to sneer . So whilst my admiration for , say,Johnny Dumfries' abilities when compared to team mate Senna , may be low , the fact remains that nobody gets to race in a GP without immeasurably more talent than my own, or most people I know. 'Most' because I am distantly related to a 50s racer who did a few Grands Prix and who I admired hugely , despite his very modest success.

FourWheelDrift

88,381 posts

283 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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coppice said:
Depends - fine to opine, less so to sneer . So whilst my admiration for , say,Johnny Dumfries' abilities when compared to team mate Senna , may be low , the fact remains that nobody gets to race in a GP without immeasurably more talent than my own, or most people I know. 'Most' because I am distantly related to a 50s racer who did a few Grands Prix and who I admired hugely , despite his very modest success.
Senna had 3 cars at his disposal, Dumfries just the one and he was the development driver for new parts including the new 6 speed gearbox which was unreliable. Whilst Senna used the reliable 5 speed.

https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/our-new...

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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I certainly wouldn't sneer at anybody who makes it to F1.

What I dislike is people trying to shut down a discussion on the basis that the participants in the discussion are not "qualified" in some way to comment.

G321

574 posts

203 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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FourWheelDrift said:
Senna had 3 cars at his disposal, Dumfries just the one and he was the development driver for new parts including the new 6 speed gearbox which was unreliable. Whilst Senna used the reliable 5 speed.

https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/our-new...
Dumfries also won Le Mans for Jag in a competitive era. He might have been privileged but he climbed the ladder the hard way like anyone else

andy97

4,691 posts

221 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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The trouble is Eric that the whole premise of this thread is to disparage people for their efforts and thsts distasteful, particularly when, in fact, anyone that gets to F1, even if helped by a rich Dad, is still a pretty good driver. Sure there may be better drivers around if they all drove identical MX5s but that's not the real world.

The comments would be more relevant if the people making thise comments understood the issues and had relevant experience whether as a driver themselves or as an race engineer.

If Frank Williams, Gary Anderson or Martin Brundle say thatvDriver X is hopeless then I will listen, but even that is going to be in comparison to their peers, and I'd guarantee that they will still be better than virtually anyone in the PH massive.

No one is trying to shut the thread down, just provide some perspective.

Many years ago Toyota did a comparison between one of their F1 drivers and an Autocar journalist around the Silverstone GP circuit in a standard Celica. The journalist wasn't a racing driver but still experienced and had driven on track before. The F1 driversrace results were nothing to write home about. He was 27 secs a lap faster than the journo.

Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 22 March 13:06

Eric Mc

121,779 posts

264 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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I'm not sure the thread was to disparage anyone.

With a small number of exceptions, most drivers who have made it to F1 have not disgraced themselves.

I was watching Mark Blundell on the Goodwood 75MM livestream over the weekend. Even peddling a fairly humble Escort RS2000 he showed an extra element of class and grit over the more traditional "gentlemen" historic racers.

coppice

8,562 posts

143 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
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FourWheelDrift said:
Senna had 3 cars at his disposal, Dumfries just the one and he was the development driver for new parts including the new 6 speed gearbox which was unreliable. Whilst Senna used the reliable 5 speed.

https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/our-new...
Dumfries was a purely random example, and a fine driver too. Other popular targets are Hill G (grafter, not naturally gifted ) , Hill D (right place right time ) , Palmer Jon ( 'arrogant' (so what ? )) , Palmer Jol (wrong dad) , Henton B (cocky ). Miles J (not cocky enough ) and so on.