Ayrton Senna is overrated. Discuss...

Ayrton Senna is overrated. Discuss...

Author
Discussion

Evangelion

7,723 posts

178 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
quotequote all
Nobody is further away from being a Senna fan than I am, but even I have to admit that his opening lap at Donington in '93 is the greatest bit of driving I've ever seen.

London424

12,829 posts

175 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
quotequote all
I'll have to see if I can dig out some of those as a few are before my time.

I was watching this one the other day and wasn't massively impressed.

http://youtu.be/k5xLiQJdmck

chrismc1977

854 posts

112 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
quotequote all
Well yes- might be wise to brush up on all his races before posting- especially those in wet weather

London424

12,829 posts

175 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
quotequote all
chrismc1977 said:
Well yes- might be wise to brush up on all his races before posting- especially those in wet weather
Was the race I posted not a wet race? My point was he wasn't "untouchable" in the wet.

chrismc1977

854 posts

112 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
quotequote all
London424 said:
Was the race I posted not a wet race? My point was he wasn't "untouchable" in the wet.
Actually as a driver he was.

Spain in 91 McLaren had a really poor weekend so it's a bad example- maybe before your time though?

Go watch the others I mentioned & then see if you revise your opinion.....


London424

12,829 posts

175 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
quotequote all
chrismc1977 said:
London424 said:
Was the race I posted not a wet race? My point was he wasn't "untouchable" in the wet.
Actually as a driver he was.

Spain in 91 McLaren had a really poor weekend so it's a bad example- maybe before your time though?

Go watch the others I mentioned & then see if you revise your opinion.....
Will check them out.

FeelingLucky

1,082 posts

164 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
quotequote all
I forget which year, but one race in Australia (I think) was held in monsoon like conditions, and in pulling out to pass a backmarker, he ploughed into another backmarker (Possibly Brundle) and took his left front clean off.

On his way back to the pits to retire, he passed another car....

FeelingLucky

1,082 posts

164 months

Saturday 24th September 2016
quotequote all
Evangelion said:
Nobody is further away from being a Senna fan than I am, but even I have to admit that his opening lap at Donington in '93 is the greatest bit of driving I've ever seen.
The single greatest lap I've ever witnessed.


Smollet

10,556 posts

190 months

Sunday 25th September 2016
quotequote all
FeelingLucky said:
Evangelion said:
Nobody is further away from being a Senna fan than I am, but even I have to admit that his opening lap at Donington in '93 is the greatest bit of driving I've ever seen.
The single greatest lap I've ever witnessed.
Hard to think of one better I agree although Stewart's opening lap in I think the 68 German GP at the Ring in the wet comes close.

JoeMarano

1,042 posts

100 months

Sunday 25th September 2016
quotequote all
Look up race of champions on youtube

chrismc1977

854 posts

112 months

Sunday 25th September 2016
quotequote all
FeelingLucky said:
I forget which year, but one race in Australia (I think) was held in monsoon like conditions, and in pulling out to pass a backmarker, he ploughed into another backmarker (Possibly Brundle) and took his left front clean off.

On his way back to the pits to retire, he passed another car....
Australian GP in 89.

The race would never have gone ahead in today's era.

Senna indeed hit Martin Brundle up the chuff

coppice

8,604 posts

144 months

Sunday 25th September 2016
quotequote all
Smollet said:
Hard to think of one better I agree although Stewart's opening lap in I think the 68 German GP at the Ring in the wet comes close.
Absolutely Toby but as it wasn't televised it doesn't lodge in the consciousness like Senna's does. And . of course , you have to be really old to recall '68 don't you...

I seem to recall Senna actually being quite self deprecatory (unusually so for a man who was rarely troubled by self esteem issues)about the drive, given how laden with technology the car was. As were the others of course.

The single most impressive (and I use the word advisedly )wet weather drive I have seen in televised motor sport was Damon Hill's battle with Schumacher at Suzuka - that was bloody heroic stuff


Edited by coppice on Tuesday 27th September 07:24

FeelingLucky

1,082 posts

164 months

Monday 26th September 2016
quotequote all
chrismc1977 said:
FeelingLucky said:
I forget which year, but one race in Australia (I think) was held in monsoon like conditions, and in pulling out to pass a backmarker, he ploughed into another backmarker (Possibly Brundle) and took his left front clean off.

On his way back to the pits to retire, he passed another car....
Australian GP in 89.

The race would never have gone ahead in today's era.

Senna indeed hit Martin Brundle up the chuff
Completely agree, I'm struggling to remember a GP held in worse weather.

Eric Mc

121,979 posts

265 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
coppice said:
Absolutely Toby but as it wasn't televised it doesn't lodge in the consciousness like Senna's does. And . of course , you have to be really old to recall '68 don't you...

I seem to recall Senna actually being quite self deprecatory (unusually so for a man who was rarely troubled by self esteem issues)about the drive, given how laden with technology the car was. As were the others of course.

The single most impressive (and I use the word advisedly )wet weather drive I have seen in televised motor sport was Damon Hill's battle with Schumacher at Suzuka - that was bloody heroic stuff


Edited by coppice on Tuesday 27th September 07:24
It probably WAS televised live at the time. The German GP was on of the few that was covered by TV before the post Hunt explosion in the mid 1970s. However, I doubt if a recording exists of the race (I my be wrong) and, precisely because it was the Nurburgring in wet and misty conditions, it probably doesn't make great TV anyway. Clips of the TV coverage of the 1969 German GP are on you tube.

I am old enough to remember watching Jo Siffert win the 1968 British GP at Brands Hatch on TV.

coppice

8,604 posts

144 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
Oddly enough, the only GP I recall seeing on TV in that era was the '67 Italian- brilliant race , as you will know , with Clark making the mother of all recovery drives, falling at final hurdle and Surtees the surprise winner after Brabham ran wide. I haven't checked but that's what I recall - yikes- 49 years later

Eric Mc

121,979 posts

265 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
The 1968 British GP is the earliest I can recall watching live on TV. I was ten at the time.

Things started picking up in the late 1960s, early 1970s. From 1978 on, ALL races were shown (mostly in highlight form with a select few live races) on the BBC.

thatguy11

640 posts

123 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
FeelingLucky said:
chrismc1977 said:
FeelingLucky said:
I forget which year, but one race in Australia (I think) was held in monsoon like conditions, and in pulling out to pass a backmarker, he ploughed into another backmarker (Possibly Brundle) and took his left front clean off.

On his way back to the pits to retire, he passed another car....
Australian GP in 89.

The race would never have gone ahead in today's era.

Senna indeed hit Martin Brundle up the chuff
Completely agree, I'm struggling to remember a GP held in worse weather.
Australia '91 must have been worse, the race was abandoned after just 14 laps. Senna said it wasn't even a race, just a matter of trying not to crash out

coppice

8,604 posts

144 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
Worst weather for an F1 race I ever saw from trackside was the Silverstone International Trophy in 1978- absolutely pissed it down - and Keke won in the shed of a Theodore. 75 GP at same circuit was bloody wet too- and in 73 (Intl Trophy again) it bloody snowed....

M3ax

1,291 posts

212 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
chrismc1977 said:
Australian GP in 89.

The race would never have gone ahead in today's era.

Senna indeed hit Martin Brundle up the chuff
I was there that day sheltering in the Williams garage. Very messy.

Halmyre

11,187 posts

139 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
chrismc1977 said:
FeelingLucky said:
I forget which year, but one race in Australia (I think) was held in monsoon like conditions, and in pulling out to pass a backmarker, he ploughed into another backmarker (Possibly Brundle) and took his left front clean off.

On his way back to the pits to retire, he passed another car....
Australian GP in 89.

The race would never have gone ahead in today's era.

Senna indeed hit Martin Brundle up the chuff
I saw that on telly; a view from Brundle's rear-facing camera. Just a wall of spray, and then the nose of Senna's car suddenly pops out like something out of 'Jaws'.

The 1968 German GP is rightly celebrated as one of the great rain-soaked victories, but Clark's win at Spa in 1963 seems even more fantastic - lapped everybody bar Bruce McLaren, and his winning margin was nearly 5 minutes. And he had to hold it in top gear to keep it from jumping out.