Who's Toto Wolff?
Discussion
F1 and F1 only have a major problem with MBS; none of the other series seem to have issues with him..........As usual, F1 lives in it's own little world, full of self importance......
Saying that, I don't think MBS has done a great job, especially for the WRC, which he himself said he needed to spend more time on - and not F1...
However, F1 wants one of their own in charge of the FiA......
Saying that, I don't think MBS has done a great job, especially for the WRC, which he himself said he needed to spend more time on - and not F1...
However, F1 wants one of their own in charge of the FiA......
ArnageWRC said:
F1 and F1 only have a major problem with MBS; none of the other series seem to have issues with him..........As usual, F1 lives in it's own little world, full of self importance......
Saying that, I don't think MBS has done a great job, especially for the WRC, which he himself said he needed to spend more time on - and not F1...
However, F1 wants one of their own in charge of the FiA......
If he kept his nose out of F1 Management and the teams business that would be a step forward. He is legally barred from doing what he does, and F1 management had to remind him of that, which is a ridiculous situation.Saying that, I don't think MBS has done a great job, especially for the WRC, which he himself said he needed to spend more time on - and not F1...
However, F1 wants one of their own in charge of the FiA......
Blib said:
Bo_apex said:
ArnageWRC said:
However, F1 wants one of their own in charge of the FiA......
That would be nice and cosy for Liberty MediaBo_apex said:
Blib said:
Bo_apex said:
ArnageWRC said:
However, F1 wants one of their own in charge of the FiA......
That would be nice and cosy for Liberty MediaBlib said:
Bo_apex said:
Blib said:
Bo_apex said:
ArnageWRC said:
However, F1 wants one of their own in charge of the FiA......
That would be nice and cosy for Liberty MediaTodt fell at the final furlong
Bo_apex said:
Blib said:
Bo_apex said:
Blib said:
Bo_apex said:
ArnageWRC said:
However, F1 wants one of their own in charge of the FiA......
That would be nice and cosy for Liberty MediaTodt fell at the final furlong
Liberty got EXACTLY what they wanted - a race and title not concluded behind a safety car.
For Liberty's new fans, anything else would not be 'exciting' enough.
Blib said:
Bo_apex said:
Blib said:
Bo_apex said:
Blib said:
Bo_apex said:
ArnageWRC said:
However, F1 wants one of their own in charge of the FiA......
That would be nice and cosy for Liberty MediaTodt fell at the final furlong
Liberty got EXACTLY what they wanted - a race and title not concluded behind a safety car.
For Liberty's new fans, anything else would not be 'exciting' enough.
But are we also concluding that Todt turned a blind eye to Liberty Media's showbiz through '21 and allowed them to get on with it ?
The FIA and FOM (liberty media) are completely independent of each other and do different jobs.
This separation of roles was crossed when Ross Brawn was appointed by FOM (liberty media) to create the new ground effect car rules.
That team of people was disbanded and went to work for the FIA when this started to become a legal issue as it was breaching the EU rules the FIA/FOM had been placed under when the EU legally forced the separation of roles.
You have 3 bodies effectively now holding power in F1, the FIA create and enforce the rules, FOM manage the commercial side, the Teams have legal rights via the Concorde Agreement.
If you are interested in the details, one of the best places to look is the SEC disclosure document by Liberty Media, where it states the risks to their business is particularly interesting. https://www.libertymedia.com/investors/financial-i...
The risks to F1 start on page 49. This document is public domain information so is within the rules of PH being posted i believe.
Some extracts
"Further, a scandal which undermines the credibility of the sport, such as a race fixing scandal, or accident could also impact the
popularity of Formula 1. In particular regions, the popularity of the World Championship varies depending upon the participation and
performance of drivers and Teams from that region."
"Under the 100-Year Agreements, entered into by Formula 1 and the FIA in 2001, Formula 1 was granted an exclusive license with
respect to all of the commercial rights to the World Championship, including its trademarks. This license, which took effect on January 1,
2011 and expires on December 31, 2110, maintains Formula 1’s exclusive commercial rights to the World Championship which Formula 1
held under previous agreements with the FIA, among other things. The license under the 100-Year Agreements is critical to the ongoing
operation of Formula 1’s business. Formula 1’s rights under these agreements can be terminated by the FIA if Formula 1 materially
breaches the relevant agreements (with certain of such breaches subject to certain cure rights), undergoes an unpermitted change of control,
interferes with certain of the FIA’s rights under the 100-Year Agreements or experiences certain insolvency events. If Formula 1’s license
under the 100-Year Agreements was terminated in accordance with its terms or the FIA or another person successfully challenged the
validity of that license (or the 100-Year Agreements as a whole), it could cause Formula 1 to discontinue its operations, lead to the
termination of substantially all of Formula 1’s commercial contracts, prevent Formula 1 from exploiting the commercial rights to the World
Championship and require Formula 1 to discontinue use of the World Championship trademarks and other intellectual property rights,
which would materially adversely impact the Formula One Group."
"Formula 1’s ability to effectively stage the World Championship depends on the ongoing involvement of its participants. Pursuant
to the 2021 Concorde Agreement, each of the current 10 Teams have committed to participate in the World Championship until
December 31, 2025, subject to earlier termination upon the occurrence of certain events. Formula 1 cannot provide assurance that any of
the Teams will commit to participate in the World Championship beyond 2025, or that the FIA will enter into a subsequent Concorde
Agreement beyond 2030. If any of the current Teams cease to participate in the World Championship, Formula 1 may attempt to encourage
new entrants to the World Championship; however, there is no assurance Formula 1 will be able to do this. If such Teams were not
replaced, it could result in fewer competitors in the World Championship as compared to recent seasons which may impact the perceived
entertainment value of Events. In addition, any negotiation for an extension to the term of the Team Agreements or the Concorde
Arrangements could result in less favorable terms to Formula 1."
"The FIA is the governing body of the World Championship and a party to the 100-Year Agreements and the 2013 Concorde
Implementation Agreement. In its capacity as the governing body of the World Championship, the FIA must place safety and other sporting
concerns over Formula 1’s commercial interests. As a result, the FIA may take actions with respect to safety and sporting standards and
regulations which conflict with Formula 1’s interests as the commercial rights holder, including by increasing the cost to Teams of
participating in the World Championship, diminishing the visual and sonic spectacle of Events, imposing fines on or excluding Teams,
cancelling or delaying an Event, withholding approval for the staging of an Event, a new circuit or Formula 1’s proposed season calendar or
establishing regulations without the support of the Teams. As a party to the 100-Year Agreements and the 2021 Concorde Governance
Agreement, the FIA has certain rights and limitations and the exercise or purported exercise of the FIA’s rights thereunder may conflict
with Formula 1’s interests. Any actions taken by the FIA which conflict with Formula 1’s interests may adversely impact Formula 1’s
operations and revenue, and in turn may materially adversely impact the Formula One Group."
"The Teams have certain governance rights under the 2021 Concorde Agreement that may limit or, at a minimum, influence actions thatLiberty may seek to cause Formula 1 to take.
The Teams are entitled to certain consent rights under the 2021 Concorde Agreement, including in relation to the number of Eventsin a season exceeding 24 or if there are fewer than 8 Events across Europe and North America combined and the introduction of newsporting and technical regulations applying to the World Championship. The interests or opinions of the Teams with regard to certainactions proposed to be taken by Formula 1 may differ from those of Liberty. In such event, the Teams may be able to block these actions."
The latest 2022 version is https://www.libertymedia.com/investors/financial-i...
This separation of roles was crossed when Ross Brawn was appointed by FOM (liberty media) to create the new ground effect car rules.
That team of people was disbanded and went to work for the FIA when this started to become a legal issue as it was breaching the EU rules the FIA/FOM had been placed under when the EU legally forced the separation of roles.
You have 3 bodies effectively now holding power in F1, the FIA create and enforce the rules, FOM manage the commercial side, the Teams have legal rights via the Concorde Agreement.
If you are interested in the details, one of the best places to look is the SEC disclosure document by Liberty Media, where it states the risks to their business is particularly interesting. https://www.libertymedia.com/investors/financial-i...
The risks to F1 start on page 49. This document is public domain information so is within the rules of PH being posted i believe.
Some extracts
"Further, a scandal which undermines the credibility of the sport, such as a race fixing scandal, or accident could also impact the
popularity of Formula 1. In particular regions, the popularity of the World Championship varies depending upon the participation and
performance of drivers and Teams from that region."
"Under the 100-Year Agreements, entered into by Formula 1 and the FIA in 2001, Formula 1 was granted an exclusive license with
respect to all of the commercial rights to the World Championship, including its trademarks. This license, which took effect on January 1,
2011 and expires on December 31, 2110, maintains Formula 1’s exclusive commercial rights to the World Championship which Formula 1
held under previous agreements with the FIA, among other things. The license under the 100-Year Agreements is critical to the ongoing
operation of Formula 1’s business. Formula 1’s rights under these agreements can be terminated by the FIA if Formula 1 materially
breaches the relevant agreements (with certain of such breaches subject to certain cure rights), undergoes an unpermitted change of control,
interferes with certain of the FIA’s rights under the 100-Year Agreements or experiences certain insolvency events. If Formula 1’s license
under the 100-Year Agreements was terminated in accordance with its terms or the FIA or another person successfully challenged the
validity of that license (or the 100-Year Agreements as a whole), it could cause Formula 1 to discontinue its operations, lead to the
termination of substantially all of Formula 1’s commercial contracts, prevent Formula 1 from exploiting the commercial rights to the World
Championship and require Formula 1 to discontinue use of the World Championship trademarks and other intellectual property rights,
which would materially adversely impact the Formula One Group."
"Formula 1’s ability to effectively stage the World Championship depends on the ongoing involvement of its participants. Pursuant
to the 2021 Concorde Agreement, each of the current 10 Teams have committed to participate in the World Championship until
December 31, 2025, subject to earlier termination upon the occurrence of certain events. Formula 1 cannot provide assurance that any of
the Teams will commit to participate in the World Championship beyond 2025, or that the FIA will enter into a subsequent Concorde
Agreement beyond 2030. If any of the current Teams cease to participate in the World Championship, Formula 1 may attempt to encourage
new entrants to the World Championship; however, there is no assurance Formula 1 will be able to do this. If such Teams were not
replaced, it could result in fewer competitors in the World Championship as compared to recent seasons which may impact the perceived
entertainment value of Events. In addition, any negotiation for an extension to the term of the Team Agreements or the Concorde
Arrangements could result in less favorable terms to Formula 1."
"The FIA is the governing body of the World Championship and a party to the 100-Year Agreements and the 2013 Concorde
Implementation Agreement. In its capacity as the governing body of the World Championship, the FIA must place safety and other sporting
concerns over Formula 1’s commercial interests. As a result, the FIA may take actions with respect to safety and sporting standards and
regulations which conflict with Formula 1’s interests as the commercial rights holder, including by increasing the cost to Teams of
participating in the World Championship, diminishing the visual and sonic spectacle of Events, imposing fines on or excluding Teams,
cancelling or delaying an Event, withholding approval for the staging of an Event, a new circuit or Formula 1’s proposed season calendar or
establishing regulations without the support of the Teams. As a party to the 100-Year Agreements and the 2021 Concorde Governance
Agreement, the FIA has certain rights and limitations and the exercise or purported exercise of the FIA’s rights thereunder may conflict
with Formula 1’s interests. Any actions taken by the FIA which conflict with Formula 1’s interests may adversely impact Formula 1’s
operations and revenue, and in turn may materially adversely impact the Formula One Group."
"The Teams have certain governance rights under the 2021 Concorde Agreement that may limit or, at a minimum, influence actions thatLiberty may seek to cause Formula 1 to take.
The Teams are entitled to certain consent rights under the 2021 Concorde Agreement, including in relation to the number of Eventsin a season exceeding 24 or if there are fewer than 8 Events across Europe and North America combined and the introduction of newsporting and technical regulations applying to the World Championship. The interests or opinions of the Teams with regard to certainactions proposed to be taken by Formula 1 may differ from those of Liberty. In such event, the Teams may be able to block these actions."
The latest 2022 version is https://www.libertymedia.com/investors/financial-i...
As good an explanation of what’s going on as anywhere, from Kym Illman.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6iKnbKj87CQ
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6iKnbKj87CQ
Sandpit Steve said:
As good an explanation of what’s going on as anywhere, from Kym Illman.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6iKnbKj87CQ
Good succinct piece and note Kym's "might share information inadvertently"https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6iKnbKj87CQ
Unless the FIA bugs their bedroom it's impossible to prove one way or another.
The risk will therefore remain.
Bo_apex said:
Sandpit Steve said:
As good an explanation of what’s going on as anywhere, from Kym Illman.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6iKnbKj87CQ
Good succinct piece and note Kym's "might share information inadvertently"https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6iKnbKj87CQ
Unless the FIA bugs their bedroom it's impossible to prove one way or another.
The risk will therefore remain.
If you want to eliminate the risk people "might share information inadvertently" then surely you'd need to ban any private meetings whatsoever between FIA employees and F1 team members?
Bo_apex said:
Good succinct piece and note Kym's "might share information inadvertently"
Unless the FIA bugs their bedroom it's impossible to prove one way or another.
The risk will therefore remain.
What useful information would any employee in her role be privy to that would be useful to anyone running an F1 team?Unless the FIA bugs their bedroom it's impossible to prove one way or another.
The risk will therefore remain.
FOM don't make any rules, they have a commercial role. For F1 teams the commercial rules are governed by the FIA financial regulations and the Concorde agreement.
In the document i linked, it specifically states that Liberty ensure no commercial information should be allowed out of their confidential control, so even FOM are bound to not give any information to an employee that could damage that.
It's unprecedented that all the teams came out with a coordinated statement to kill this absurd story. They usually fight like cats in a sack at the slightest hint of an issue.
It's such a bizarre way for the FIA to behave to react to a speculative story in such an unprofessional manner.
rscott said:
Bo_apex said:
Sandpit Steve said:
As good an explanation of what’s going on as anywhere, from Kym Illman.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6iKnbKj87CQ
Good succinct piece and note Kym's "might share information inadvertently"https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6iKnbKj87CQ
Unless the FIA bugs their bedroom it's impossible to prove one way or another.
The risk will therefore remain.
If you want to eliminate the risk people "might share information inadvertently" then surely you'd need to ban any private meetings whatsoever between FIA employees and F1 team members?
It was over pretty quick !
Bo_apex said:
520TORQUES said:
What useful information would any employee in her role be privy to that would be useful to anyone running an F1 team?
That's a good question.F1 protocols might benefit from a thorough review.
There are already controls in place which are more robust than any sporting body could manage, hence the SEC fillings.
Everyone seems happy with the current legally enforced situation.
There is a very flawed supposition in that video. Just because the teams state they did not complain would in itself not cause the FIA investigation to be stopped. The claim was of an unofficial complaint that Toto said something he could not have known through legitimate means… That record can be checked and if he had legitimate access can be checked. And as initial steps, these can be done very quickly.
CH picking his words quite carefully, repeating “official” when the claim was of an unofficial complaint… That maybe noteworthy.
Keeping mind the role of the 3 organisations, I’d say a friendly relationship between an FIA official and a team was a far higher threat than any relationship between F1 and a team. But it is still appropriate to investigate and check for wrong doing. Perhaps this is why the FIA have so quickly tried to back pedal? I think we would all like to see this concluded transparently, but without mentioning the race we apparently should be banned for talking about, it’s very hard to imagine anything transparent and honest emerging from the FIA around such a topic.
CH picking his words quite carefully, repeating “official” when the claim was of an unofficial complaint… That maybe noteworthy.
Keeping mind the role of the 3 organisations, I’d say a friendly relationship between an FIA official and a team was a far higher threat than any relationship between F1 and a team. But it is still appropriate to investigate and check for wrong doing. Perhaps this is why the FIA have so quickly tried to back pedal? I think we would all like to see this concluded transparently, but without mentioning the race we apparently should be banned for talking about, it’s very hard to imagine anything transparent and honest emerging from the FIA around such a topic.
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