Who's Toto Wolff?

[Bo_apex]

520TORQUES said:

Bo_apex said:

520TORQUES said:

What useful information would any employee in her role be privy to that would be useful to anyone running an F1 team?

That's a good question.
F1 protocols might benefit from a thorough review.

F1 protocols, what do you mean by that? FOM, FIA, other?

There are already controls in place which are more robust than any sporting body could manage, hence the SEC fillings.
Everyone seems happy with the current legally enforced situation.

Suzie Wolff spends her time with many people including Stefano Domenicali.

If you believe her position poses 0% risk then happy days.

[520TORQUES]

Bo_apex said:

Suzie Wolff spends her time with many people including Stefano Domenicali.

If you believe her position poses 0% risk then happy days.

Now have a go at answering the question.

[Bo_apex]

520TORQUES said:

Bo_apex said:

Suzie Wolff spends her time with many people including Stefano Domenicali.

If you believe her position poses 0% risk then happy days.

Now have a go at answering the question.

That was quick !

Impossible to answer without knowing the actual height of their current Chinese Wall.
I haven't dealt with the FIA for at least 15 years.

As someone said earlier, there's never smoke without fire.

[NRS]

That’s your opinion.

[MarkwG]

Bo_apex said:

520TORQUES said:

Bo_apex said:

Suzie Wolff spends her time with many people including Stefano Domenicali.

If you believe her position poses 0% risk then happy days.

Now have a go at answering the question.

That was quick !

Impossible to answer without knowing the actual height of their current Chinese Wall.
I haven't dealt with the FIA for at least 15 years.

As someone said earlier, there's never smoke without fire.

I can make the tyres smoke on my car without creating any fire

[Westyn]

He certainly makes things more interesting in F1. One of the best team managers in F1 history.

[Bo_apex]

MarkwG said:

Bo_apex said:

520TORQUES said:

Bo_apex said:

Suzie Wolff spends her time with many people including Stefano Domenicali.

If you believe her position poses 0% risk then happy days.

Now have a go at answering the question.

That was quick !

Impossible to answer without knowing the actual height of their current Chinese Wall.
I haven't dealt with the FIA for at least 15 years.

As someone said earlier, there's never smoke without fire.

I can make the tyres smoke on my car without creating any fire

well done

[Bo_apex]

Westyn said:

He certainly makes things more interesting in F1. One of the best team managers in F1 history.

yes and almost up there with Dennis and Horner

[John Strangways]

Westyn said:

He certainly makes things more interesting in F1. One of the best team managers in F1 history.

Is he? He had zero impact at Williams except to force his partner in as a 'development driver' then inherited an organisation set up and organised by Ross Brawn and took a load of championship wins mainly because Mercedes had spent far longer and far more money than anyone else developing the hybrid engine. As time has passed the organisation has clung onto those peaks generated from pre toto activity in the main and now is suffering under his leadership.

[Muzzer79]

John Strangways said:

Westyn said:

He certainly makes things more interesting in F1. One of the best team managers in F1 history.

Is he? He had zero impact at Williams except to force his partner in as a 'development driver' then inherited an organisation set up and organised by Ross Brawn and took a load of championship wins mainly because Mercedes had spent far longer and far more money than anyone else developing the hybrid engine. As time has passed the organisation has clung onto those peaks generated from pre toto activity in the main and now is suffering under his leadership.

I'm not sure what impact you were expecting at Williams - he was a shareholder from 2009-2012 and was exec Director for a short time before joining Mercedes in 2013. Frank ran Williams.......

As for Mercedes:

2013 Mercedes Senior Personnel (last year Brawn was in charge)

Bob Bell - Technical Director
Aldo Costa - Engineering Director
Geoff Willis - Tech Director
John Owen - Chief Designer
Mike Elliott - Head of Aero
David Jeffrey - Chief Aerodynamicist

Drivers - Hamilton & Rosberg

2021 Mercedes Senior Personnel (Wolff's last title)

James Allison - Technical Director
Hywel Thomas - Lead power unit designer
John Owen - Chief Designer
Mike Elliott - Tech Director
Jarrod Murphy - Head of Aero
Eric Blandin - Chief Aerodynamicist

Drivers - Hamilton & Russell

You don't win 8 titles on the bounce off the back of someone else's setup that you've inherited. A year or two maybe - witness Ferrari in 2007 - but sustained success requires succession planning and execution. There was also a not insignificant rule change in the middle of that success to navigate.

It suits people who don't like Wolff to just claim it was all Brawn's doing but the reality is that Ross planted the seeds that his successors then nurtured.

As for Mercedes spending more money and time than others - I'm sure that others, notably Ferrari, could have given them a run for their money in those stakes.

[John Strangways]

Muzzer79 said:

..blah..opinion...blah

As for Mercedes spending more money and time than others - I'm sure that others, notably Ferrari, could have given them a run for their money in those stakes.

It was well known that Merc spent more over a much longer period developing the hybrid pre 2014 than the other teams. It suits some fans to forget that and associate their wins with brilliant personal performance instead.

[520TORQUES]

John Strangways said:

It was well known that Merc spent more over a much longer period developing the hybrid pre 2014 than the other teams. It suits some fans to forget that and associate their wins with brilliant personal performance instead.

The majority of teams don't make engines. Mercedes dominance was as much about chassis and aero, which was often hobbled by changes to the regulations.

And we all saw how money doesn't mean results, Toyota being a great example.

[Muzzer79]

John Strangways said:

Muzzer79 said:

..blah..opinion...blah

As for Mercedes spending more money and time than others - I'm sure that others, notably Ferrari, could have given them a run for their money in those stakes.

It was well known that Merc spent more over a much longer period developing the hybrid pre 2014 than the other teams. It suits some fans to forget that and associate their wins with brilliant personal performance instead.

More fool the other teams then. They had as much opportunity as Mercedes.

If the key to winning in F1 is just money and time and not personal performance then somebody better tell Jaguar, Toyota, Ferrari (post 2007) McLaren.......

[John Strangways]

Muzzer79 said:

John Strangways said:

Muzzer79 said:

..blah..opinion...blah

As for Mercedes spending more money and time than others - I'm sure that others, notably Ferrari, could have given them a run for their money in those stakes.

It was well known that Merc spent more over a much longer period developing the hybrid pre 2014 than the other teams. It suits some fans to forget that and associate their wins with brilliant personal performance instead.

More fool the other teams then. They had as much opportunity as Mercedes.

If the key to winning in F1 is just money and time and not personal performance then somebody better tell Jaguar, Toyota, Ferrari (post 2007) McLaren.......

So you think it was nothing to do with the engine? The engine merc had a single cylinder mock up of in 2010 before the regs were even finalised.... ok.

They all had the opportunity? Did they? Interesting. I can assure you they didn't, given only Merc and Ferrari made their own engines and the financial clout etc. Im not taking anything away from Mercedes by the way as the way they developed that engine was sensational, however the point was a lot of their success was down to that.

They had running single cylinder variants from 2010, they got all their staff to add 10 hours a week to their contracts during 2013, they developed 3 separate engines simultaneously......a reliability engine, a performance engine and the blended engine. This allowed them to develop performance simultaneously withy reliability as opposed to having to sort reliability issues as they showed up and slow performance dev time. Genius from the massively funded Mercedes HPP and Andy Cowell

Edited by John Strangways on Wednesday 20th December 11:22

[MarkwG]

Muzzer79 said:

John Strangways said:

Muzzer79 said:

..blah..opinion...blah

As for Mercedes spending more money and time than others - I'm sure that others, notably Ferrari, could have given them a run for their money in those stakes.

It was well known that Merc spent more over a much longer period developing the hybrid pre 2014 than the other teams. It suits some fans to forget that and associate their wins with brilliant personal performance instead.

More fool the other teams then. They had as much opportunity as Mercedes.

If the key to winning in F1 is just money and time and not personal performance then somebody better tell Jaguar, Toyota, Ferrari (post 2007) McLaren.......

Isn't it odd how really low number posters appear out of the woodwork around school holidays, rehashing old tropes that ran out of gas ages ago...? Very strange way of behaving...

[budgie smuggler]

John Strangways said:

So you think it was nothing to do with the engine? The engine merc had a single cylinder mock up of in 2010 before the regs were even finalised.... ok.

Am I mistaken or was it not Renault that was pushing heavily for the engine spec we eventually got?

[John Strangways]

budgie smuggler said:

John Strangways said:

So you think it was nothing to do with the engine? The engine merc had a single cylinder mock up of in 2010 before the regs were even finalised.... ok.

Am I mistaken or was it not Renault that was pushing heavily for the engine spec we eventually got?

If it was then it backfired spectacularly haha

[Hustle_]

John Strangways said:

So you think it was nothing to do with the engine? The engine merc had a single cylinder mock up of in 2010 before the regs were even finalised.... ok.

Mercedes did the best job of anticipating, pre-investing and engineering the V6TH PUs.

Red Bull did the best job of anticipating, pre-investing and engineering the 2022- aerodynamic regulations.

This is the way F1 goes.

The funny thing about the hybrid engine regs is that IIRC it was Renault who got the closest PU configuration to what they were lobbying for and basically managed to completely underestimate the technical challenge of making the engine work well as well as it's competing PU manufacturers.

[John Strangways]

Hustle_ said:

Mercedes did the best job of anticipating, pre-investing and engineering the V6TH PUs.

.

As above, absolutely not disputed, and well before Toto was around, which was the original point.

[Muzzer79]

John Strangways said:

Muzzer79 said:

John Strangways said:

Muzzer79 said:

..blah..opinion...blah

As for Mercedes spending more money and time than others - I'm sure that others, notably Ferrari, could have given them a run for their money in those stakes.

It was well known that Merc spent more over a much longer period developing the hybrid pre 2014 than the other teams. It suits some fans to forget that and associate their wins with brilliant personal performance instead.

More fool the other teams then. They had as much opportunity as Mercedes.

If the key to winning in F1 is just money and time and not personal performance then somebody better tell Jaguar, Toyota, Ferrari (post 2007) McLaren.......

So you think it was nothing to do with the engine? The engine merc had a single cylinder mock up of in 2010 before the regs were even finalised.... ok.

They all had the opportunity? Did they? Interesting. I can assure you they didn't, given only Merc and Ferrari made their own engines and the financial clout etc.

I didn't say it had nothing to do with the engine. The engine was a key part of the package. Mercedes did that better than the other teams, just like Red Bull are doing ground effect better than the other teams now.

To seperate that out from Wolff to discredit his success is just bizarre. Do you discredit Christian Horner's achievements on the basis that he would be nothing without Adrian Newey's aero genius?

All teams had the opportunity. Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault were doing engines. It's not Mercedes fault if the latter two cocked it up, nor does it mean their achievements are worth less.