Is Vettel overrated?
Poll: Is Vettel overrated?
Total Members Polled: 458
Discussion
Composite Guru said:
I love these comments about "the best car winning". I can't remember a championship being won in a rubbish car.
As for this year it seems like Merc has the best car so Hamilton is winning races because he has the best car obviously.
The WDC is won by the best driver/car combination. It's the sum of the parts plus the team. A poor team or pit crew can throw away a championship. Witness Ferrari gifting the 2010 WDC to Vettel.As for this year it seems like Merc has the best car so Hamilton is winning races because he has the best car obviously.
I feel slightly harsh saying this as he's improved a lot but put Max Chilton in this years Mercedes and he wouldn't win the WDC.
Hamilton in a Force India might win the WDC.
OldandGrumpy said:
longblackcoat said:
I think he's been slightly flattered in his achievements due to the car, and that he's just not as good as a 4 x WDC should be. At the same time, I like him tremendously as an individual - he's funny, self-deprecating, and, typically, when interviewed after yesterday's race simply said that he wasn't fast enough. No complaints about the car/tyres/ERC ...... just manned up without whinging.
His pr face is convincing. He sounds very different in the cockpit when things are going wrong.I would like to revise my opinion of him but I remain suspicious. I do hope I am wrong.
Alonso: "No more radio messages"
Kimi: "Leave me alone, I know what I'm doing."
Hamilton: "I know what I'm doing, man."
Rosberg: "Warn him about that now."
They're racing drivers. They have millions of excuses and they throw toys out the pram when things go wrong. Senna punched another driver. Schumacher charged down the pitlane to fight Coulthard.
It's part of their make-up. If they weren't like that they wouldn't win!
Muzzer79 said:
The blown diffuser car really suited his style, with obvious results
I think now the regs have changed, we'll see exactly how good he is......
He is better when the car is developed, not just blown or even double decker diffusers.I think now the regs have changed, we'll see exactly how good he is......
Torro Rosso - he was the better Seb in 2008 when the team developed the car.
Agent Orange said:
The WDC is won by the best driver/car combination. It's the sum of the parts plus the team. A poor team or pit crew can throw away a championship. Witness Ferrari gifting the 2010 WDC to Vettel.
I feel slightly harsh saying this as he's improved a lot but put Max Chilton in this years Mercedes and he wouldn't win the WDC.
Hamilton in a Force India might win the WDC.
Agree about the driver/car/team combination.I feel slightly harsh saying this as he's improved a lot but put Max Chilton in this years Mercedes and he wouldn't win the WDC.
Hamilton in a Force India might win the WDC.
Max would win in a Merc this year if he had no team-mate. I doubt Hamilton would win in a Force India against Nico in the Mercedes...
Also I suspect the difference between Chilton and Rosberg would be a lot smaller than you'd think if they were team-mates. Also given their respective experience, Chilton would be able to improve more and his rate of improvement is on a sharper gradient. I actually think Max is quite naturally talented - I seem to recall him fast on outlaps in the wet/practice (Spa) compared to his team-mate.
Kronstein said:
Max would win in a Merc this year if he had no team-mate. I doubt Hamilton would win in a Force India against Nico in the Mercedes...
Also I suspect the difference between Chilton and Rosberg would be a lot smaller than you'd think if they were team-mates. Also given their respective experience, Chilton would be able to improve more and his rate of improvement is on a sharper gradient. I actually think Max is quite naturally talented - I seem to recall him fast on outlaps in the wet/practice (Spa) compared to his team-mate.
Wouldn't disagree with anything you posted there.Also I suspect the difference between Chilton and Rosberg would be a lot smaller than you'd think if they were team-mates. Also given their respective experience, Chilton would be able to improve more and his rate of improvement is on a sharper gradient. I actually think Max is quite naturally talented - I seem to recall him fast on outlaps in the wet/practice (Spa) compared to his team-mate.
In fact I'd go so far to say that Max is possibly the most improved driver in the last year.
Agent Orange said:
Kronstein said:
Max would win in a Merc this year if he had no team-mate. I doubt Hamilton would win in a Force India against Nico in the Mercedes...
Also I suspect the difference between Chilton and Rosberg would be a lot smaller than you'd think if they were team-mates. Also given their respective experience, Chilton would be able to improve more and his rate of improvement is on a sharper gradient. I actually think Max is quite naturally talented - I seem to recall him fast on outlaps in the wet/practice (Spa) compared to his team-mate.
Wouldn't disagree with anything you posted there.Also I suspect the difference between Chilton and Rosberg would be a lot smaller than you'd think if they were team-mates. Also given their respective experience, Chilton would be able to improve more and his rate of improvement is on a sharper gradient. I actually think Max is quite naturally talented - I seem to recall him fast on outlaps in the wet/practice (Spa) compared to his team-mate.
In fact I'd go so far to say that Max is possibly the most improved driver in the last year.
wanacoop said:
.
It's just nice to see him having a competitive team mate, and being mid pack.
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I understand what you want to illustrate there but, in so doing, you're having a side swipe at his previous Aussie team mate... G'day mate. ... It's just nice to see him having a competitive team mate, and being mid pack.
.
Vettel, his car or a combination of both have mostly simply underperformed in the three races this season. There have been glimpses of his true class. Ignore those if you wish ... Anyone who believes that is his true form so far this season will be in for a bit of a surprise with the passing of a little more time.
Meantime toi the naysayers ...Celebrate and rejoice... whilst yee can ...
I am delighted that Red Bull made the right choice when replacing Webber. The lad done well good ... so far.
Vettel is certainly under rated by a hard core of enthusiasts on this site whilst at the same time always over rating others far less worthy.
How some people can say someone who has won 4 WDC is an 'average' driver is laughable. Like it or not he is a great driver and Riccardo simply hasn't proved his worth yet, with most people conveniently ignoring Vettel's reliability problems. I am sure Vettel will still come out on top this year, but then the haters will come up with another excuse anyway!
oyster said:
Doink said:
VolvoT5 said:
DR is certainly more capable of giving him a run for his money than Webber ever was, however I don't think anyone who has won 4 championships can ever be considered 'over rated'.
You forget during those 4 years he had the best car on the grid which made his job considerably easier, now if he'd of won those 4 WDC in a Sauber then you'd have a point2012 Vettel wins in the best car
2011 Vettel wins in the best car
2010 Vettel wins in the best car
2009 Button wins in the best car
2008 Hamnilton wins in the best car
2007 Raikonnen wins in the 2nd best car
2006 Alonso wins in the best car
2005 Alonso wins in the best car
2004 Schumacher wins in the best car
2003 Schumacher wins in the best car
2002 Schumacher wins in the best car
2001 Schumacher wins in the best car
2000 Schumacher wins in the best car
1999 Hakkinen wins in the 2nd best car
1998 Hakkinen wins in the best car
1997 Villeneuve wins in the best car
1996 Hill wins in the best car
1995 Schumacher wins in the best car
1994 Schumacher wins in the 2nd best car
1993 Prost wins in the best car
1992 Mansell wins in the best car
1991 Senna wins in the best car
1990 Senna wins in the best car
1989 Prost wins in the best car
1988 Senna wins in the best car
I think your point is moot.
bullies180 said:
oyster said:
Doink said:
VolvoT5 said:
DR is certainly more capable of giving him a run for his money than Webber ever was, however I don't think anyone who has won 4 championships can ever be considered 'over rated'.
You forget during those 4 years he had the best car on the grid which made his job considerably easier, now if he'd of won those 4 WDC in a Sauber then you'd have a point2012 Vettel wins in the best car
2011 Vettel wins in the best car
2010 Vettel wins in the best car
2009 Button wins in the best car
2008 Hamnilton wins in the best car
2007 Raikonnen wins in the 2nd best car
2006 Alonso wins in the best car
2005 Alonso wins in the best car
2004 Schumacher wins in the best car
2003 Schumacher wins in the best car
2002 Schumacher wins in the best car
2001 Schumacher wins in the best car
2000 Schumacher wins in the best car
1999 Hakkinen wins in the 2nd best car
1998 Hakkinen wins in the best car
1997 Villeneuve wins in the best car
1996 Hill wins in the best car
1995 Schumacher wins in the best car
1994 Schumacher wins in the 2nd best car
1993 Prost wins in the best car
1992 Mansell wins in the best car
1991 Senna wins in the best car
1990 Senna wins in the best car
1989 Prost wins in the best car
1988 Senna wins in the best car
I think your point is moot.
oyster said:
bullies180 said:
oyster said:
Doink said:
VolvoT5 said:
DR is certainly more capable of giving him a run for his money than Webber ever was, however I don't think anyone who has won 4 championships can ever be considered 'over rated'.
You forget during those 4 years he had the best car on the grid which made his job considerably easier, now if he'd of won those 4 WDC in a Sauber then you'd have a point2012 Vettel wins in the best car
2011 Vettel wins in the best car
2010 Vettel wins in the best car
2009 Button wins in the best car
2008 Hamnilton wins in the best car
2007 Raikonnen wins in the 2nd best car
2006 Alonso wins in the best car
2005 Alonso wins in the best car
2004 Schumacher wins in the best car
2003 Schumacher wins in the best car
2002 Schumacher wins in the best car
2001 Schumacher wins in the best car
2000 Schumacher wins in the best car
1999 Hakkinen wins in the 2nd best car
1998 Hakkinen wins in the best car
1997 Villeneuve wins in the best car
1996 Hill wins in the best car
1995 Schumacher wins in the best car
1994 Schumacher wins in the 2nd best car
1993 Prost wins in the best car
1992 Mansell wins in the best car
1991 Senna wins in the best car
1990 Senna wins in the best car
1989 Prost wins in the best car
1988 Senna wins in the best car
I think your point is moot.
IMO seb is very good, but he is struggling with a clean sheet car this season.
RBR won 4 on the trot because they recognised where seb was strong and built cars to compliment him.
This year Daniel has just adapted quicker to the new tech. Over a season I don't doubt seb will catch up. However what will make or break him is how RBR develop the car - they want to win at all costs so if Daniel keeps outperforming him I wouldn't be surprised if RBR develop the car around him, it's the logical thing to do
RBR won 4 on the trot because they recognised where seb was strong and built cars to compliment him.
This year Daniel has just adapted quicker to the new tech. Over a season I don't doubt seb will catch up. However what will make or break him is how RBR develop the car - they want to win at all costs so if Daniel keeps outperforming him I wouldn't be surprised if RBR develop the car around him, it's the logical thing to do
Jasandjules said:
No matter what you think of him personally I think you have to respect that he was told he is slower and he immediately set about allowing his team mate to get past.
So he plays fair for Dan at least....
Seb didn't have the car yesterday and he was on a different strategy and inferior tyres.So he plays fair for Dan at least....
In Malaysia last year the reason he wanted Mark "out of he way" was because Seb was quicker on the options and Mark was on primes.
Jasandjules said:
No matter what you think of him personally I think you have to respect that he was told he is slower and he immediately set about allowing his team mate to get past.
So he plays fair for Dan at least....
Seb didn't have the car yesterday and he was on a different strategy and inferior tyres.So he plays fair for Dan at least....
In Malaysia last year the reason he wanted Mark "out of he way" was because Seb was quicker on the options and Mark was on primes.
oyster said:
In the cockpit when things are tough going:
Alonso: "No more radio messages"
Kimi: "Leave me alone, I know what I'm doing."
Hamilton: "I know what I'm doing, man."
Rosberg: "Warn him about that now."
They're racing drivers. They have millions of excuses and they throw toys out the pram when things go wrong. Senna punched another driver. Schumacher charged down the pitlane to fight Coulthard.
It's part of their make-up. If they weren't like that they wouldn't win!
Sure. But we will see as the season progressesAlonso: "No more radio messages"
Kimi: "Leave me alone, I know what I'm doing."
Hamilton: "I know what I'm doing, man."
Rosberg: "Warn him about that now."
They're racing drivers. They have millions of excuses and they throw toys out the pram when things go wrong. Senna punched another driver. Schumacher charged down the pitlane to fight Coulthard.
It's part of their make-up. If they weren't like that they wouldn't win!
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