Is Vettel overrated?
Poll: Is Vettel overrated?
Total Members Polled: 458
Discussion
CocoUK said:
I'm sure they played a radio-message where he complained of a lack of power - possibly shortly after the safety car period?
As for Q2 - his car was suffering from a down-shift issue which was upsetting the balance.
I'm not a fan of his, as per my comments in the recent thread about his 'sportsman' award and as I mentioned above - to judge him 'overrated' depends upon how you rate him yourself - but at the end of the day he is a *4 World Champion and has suffered car issues beyond his control this season.
Seb was complaining of a lack of straight line pace after the safety car. Around the time DR passed him (again). I do believe DR was running less wing as they had set him up to come through the pack from his 10 place grid penalty. So it might have been that aero advantage prompting SV to get on the radio. Having a Renault engine doesn't help against everyone else either!As for Q2 - his car was suffering from a down-shift issue which was upsetting the balance.
I'm not a fan of his, as per my comments in the recent thread about his 'sportsman' award and as I mentioned above - to judge him 'overrated' depends upon how you rate him yourself - but at the end of the day he is a *4 World Champion and has suffered car issues beyond his control this season.
Haven't read whole thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned.
His win in 2008 at Monza in a Torro Rosso confirmed his brilliance.
His 2010 and 2012 seasons showed how consistency pays off. And his 2011 and 2013 seasons confirmed just how far ahead of Webber he was when they clearly had the best car in the field.
He is great. I think he's more consistent than Hamilton and just as good as Alonso.
His 2010 and 2012 seasons showed how consistency pays off. And his 2011 and 2013 seasons confirmed just how far ahead of Webber he was when they clearly had the best car in the field.
He is great. I think he's more consistent than Hamilton and just as good as Alonso.
I think it's too early to say, but I do think that Vettel is a bit like a better Button, in that if the car is designed/set up in a certain way he will be very consistant and dominate. You just need to look at the races against Webber to see he benefited massively from the double diffuser for example. Relatively equal when it wasn't working, dominating when it was. This year with the lack of downforce I think it will affect him due to his driving style.
SV is very, very good and has had the tools to prove it in recent years.
DR is very good, perhaps better, and has only just got his hands on a tool that could do the job only to find that it isn't as good as expected.
In the first 3 races of the year I think that DR has placed his calling card on the table and now we will see just how good they both are.
But then I've been rooting for the honey badger since 2009.
DR is very good, perhaps better, and has only just got his hands on a tool that could do the job only to find that it isn't as good as expected.
In the first 3 races of the year I think that DR has placed his calling card on the table and now we will see just how good they both are.
But then I've been rooting for the honey badger since 2009.
Schermerhorn said:
His win in 2008 at Monza in a Torro Rosso confirmed his brilliance.
His 2010 and 2012 seasons showed how consistency pays off. And his 2011 and 2013 seasons confirmed just how far ahead of Webber he was when they clearly had the best car in the field.
He is great. I think he's more consistent than Hamilton and just as good as Alonso.
Like Hamilton's last WDC, 2008 was a long time ago.His 2010 and 2012 seasons showed how consistency pays off. And his 2011 and 2013 seasons confirmed just how far ahead of Webber he was when they clearly had the best car in the field.
He is great. I think he's more consistent than Hamilton and just as good as Alonso.
That's why he gets slated because he has had the best car for so long. It's debatable whether he has won/driven that could match it.
As been referred by me and others Seb is most consistent when the car is to his liking.
Not really sure. When the car is how he wants it he is just about unbeatable, like Button, but he had it a lot more often.
Still think there are question marks over how he deals with pressure sometimes though, but equally good counter arguments. At Canada 2011 he cracked under pressure from Jenson... but equally in Spain 2011 he had Lewis right on his tail for about 10 laps at least, and didn't make a mistake at all.
Then there's Brazil 2012. Not sure what happened there, starting in the pack, making a bad getaway and being squeezed by his teammate and watching the Ferraris disappear, then what? Getting damn near taken out by a Williams when he should've taken it easy for a bit, it was the start of a long race. That was the most pressure he's ever been under, I think, and it was only some strong suspension and weather (could he have been quick enough in the dry?) that he won the championship.
In Abu Dhabi 2010 he was on pole with the quickest car, all he had to do was drive, he was never really under direct pressure from anyone.
The vast majority of the time over the last few year he's been the best driver in the best car, with Alonso in 2012 and a handful performances by Lewis and Jenson as exceptions.
Still think there are question marks over how he deals with pressure sometimes though, but equally good counter arguments. At Canada 2011 he cracked under pressure from Jenson... but equally in Spain 2011 he had Lewis right on his tail for about 10 laps at least, and didn't make a mistake at all.
Then there's Brazil 2012. Not sure what happened there, starting in the pack, making a bad getaway and being squeezed by his teammate and watching the Ferraris disappear, then what? Getting damn near taken out by a Williams when he should've taken it easy for a bit, it was the start of a long race. That was the most pressure he's ever been under, I think, and it was only some strong suspension and weather (could he have been quick enough in the dry?) that he won the championship.
In Abu Dhabi 2010 he was on pole with the quickest car, all he had to do was drive, he was never really under direct pressure from anyone.
The vast majority of the time over the last few year he's been the best driver in the best car, with Alonso in 2012 and a handful performances by Lewis and Jenson as exceptions.
CharlesAL said:
Not really sure. When the car is how he wants it he is just about unbeatable, like Button, but he had it a lot more often.
Still think there are question marks over how he deals with pressure sometimes though, but equally good counter arguments. At Canada 2011 he cracked under pressure from Jenson... but equally in Spain 2011 he had Lewis right on his tail for about 10 laps at least, and didn't make a mistake at all.
Then there's Brazil 2012. Not sure what happened there, starting in the pack, making a bad getaway and being squeezed by his teammate and watching the Ferraris disappear, then what? Getting damn near taken out by a Williams when he should've taken it easy for a bit, it was the start of a long race. That was the most pressure he's ever been under, I think, and it was only some strong suspension and weather (could he have been quick enough in the dry?) that he won the championship.
In Abu Dhabi 2010 he was on pole with the quickest car, all he had to do was drive, he was never really under direct pressure from anyone.
The vast majority of the time over the last few year he's been the best driver in the best car, with Alonso in 2012 and a handful performances by Lewis and Jenson as exceptions.
I think there is some good points, but I do suspect he's better than Button. Very consistant.Still think there are question marks over how he deals with pressure sometimes though, but equally good counter arguments. At Canada 2011 he cracked under pressure from Jenson... but equally in Spain 2011 he had Lewis right on his tail for about 10 laps at least, and didn't make a mistake at all.
Then there's Brazil 2012. Not sure what happened there, starting in the pack, making a bad getaway and being squeezed by his teammate and watching the Ferraris disappear, then what? Getting damn near taken out by a Williams when he should've taken it easy for a bit, it was the start of a long race. That was the most pressure he's ever been under, I think, and it was only some strong suspension and weather (could he have been quick enough in the dry?) that he won the championship.
In Abu Dhabi 2010 he was on pole with the quickest car, all he had to do was drive, he was never really under direct pressure from anyone.
The vast majority of the time over the last few year he's been the best driver in the best car, with Alonso in 2012 and a handful performances by Lewis and Jenson as exceptions.
He's quick over a lap, but I don't see anything more than that. The BBC / Sky crews were calling off any questioning of his 'race craft' after sticking it around Alonso, on the dirt, at Monza... To me, this just sounded pure PR. His race craft, for a top flight driver, IMO, is utter s
te. Driving it wide on the dirt isn't the mark of a great overtake.
Think back to when he stuck it into Button's sidepod at Spa?! Trying to flick it left into zero space, realising mid move and throwing it back right... mid engine, mate. Not to mention what havoc the dirty air would be causing Newey's Wonder Car! It was always going to end up that way. When he took out Webber at Turkey... yeah, I think the vocal majority called it 50/50, but watch it... he gave himself zero space on a bumpy straight, the car pitched right. Hamilton was rightly berated for a similar thing at Canada. What else... his 'come back' through the field at Silverstone one year (I forget) after picking up a puncture on the second corner (cant remember if that was up to him, or Hamilton? Maybe the latter) It was called another 'great drive' at the time but lets be honest, it was the fastest car coming back to its natural position and I seem to recall more than a few instance of paint swapping with the back markers... In the fastest car? What's the point in taking the risks? Pass them on a straight.
To me, he'll see a gap that isn't there and goes for it. He has that kind of excitable note to his mannerism. The best I can liken it to is the podium at Singapore... Kimi swore, nothing major, then Vettel, beaming, over excited and witlessly took it one step further, just because. Like a teenager trying to upstage his older brother. He spots a chance, then throws himself into it without the wit or grace too many of his peers have in abundance.
Where Vettel really shines is over one lap. With no traffic or distraction, he'll fly. I think back to Suzuka 09 and still wince at some of the apex speeds, and he just nails it earlier than most. IIRC this is where he got the better of Webber, by getting on the throttle earlier, which gave Neweys Wonder Car the chance to employ all its aero tricks. Apparently Webber never quite grasped that. I dunno... it sounds a simple thing but hop in an E46 BMW and try driving on a low speed technical circuit - you'll soon notice the fraction of a second delay in throttle response and how it absolutely ruins your corner. Imagine a similar tick in a 700BHP race car, with all the downforce of two HRT's stuck together. It's going to get on your tits.
Maybe I'm being silly, likening his race craft to his sweary personality, or Neweys Wonder Car to an outdated BMW's infuriating throttle response, but I don't care it's been a long day and I'm tired. And I've watched him race every weekend for the last four years and just thought... nah.
And I've never been taken in by that grin of his. Behind closed doors you know he's a (stop)
te. Driving it wide on the dirt isn't the mark of a great overtake.Think back to when he stuck it into Button's sidepod at Spa?! Trying to flick it left into zero space, realising mid move and throwing it back right... mid engine, mate. Not to mention what havoc the dirty air would be causing Newey's Wonder Car! It was always going to end up that way. When he took out Webber at Turkey... yeah, I think the vocal majority called it 50/50, but watch it... he gave himself zero space on a bumpy straight, the car pitched right. Hamilton was rightly berated for a similar thing at Canada. What else... his 'come back' through the field at Silverstone one year (I forget) after picking up a puncture on the second corner (cant remember if that was up to him, or Hamilton? Maybe the latter) It was called another 'great drive' at the time but lets be honest, it was the fastest car coming back to its natural position and I seem to recall more than a few instance of paint swapping with the back markers... In the fastest car? What's the point in taking the risks? Pass them on a straight.
To me, he'll see a gap that isn't there and goes for it. He has that kind of excitable note to his mannerism. The best I can liken it to is the podium at Singapore... Kimi swore, nothing major, then Vettel, beaming, over excited and witlessly took it one step further, just because. Like a teenager trying to upstage his older brother. He spots a chance, then throws himself into it without the wit or grace too many of his peers have in abundance.
Where Vettel really shines is over one lap. With no traffic or distraction, he'll fly. I think back to Suzuka 09 and still wince at some of the apex speeds, and he just nails it earlier than most. IIRC this is where he got the better of Webber, by getting on the throttle earlier, which gave Neweys Wonder Car the chance to employ all its aero tricks. Apparently Webber never quite grasped that. I dunno... it sounds a simple thing but hop in an E46 BMW and try driving on a low speed technical circuit - you'll soon notice the fraction of a second delay in throttle response and how it absolutely ruins your corner. Imagine a similar tick in a 700BHP race car, with all the downforce of two HRT's stuck together. It's going to get on your tits.
Maybe I'm being silly, likening his race craft to his sweary personality, or Neweys Wonder Car to an outdated BMW's infuriating throttle response, but I don't care it's been a long day and I'm tired. And I've watched him race every weekend for the last four years and just thought... nah.
And I've never been taken in by that grin of his. Behind closed doors you know he's a (stop)
SuperDude said:
He's quick over a lap, but I don't see anything more than that. The BBC / Sky crews were calling off any questioning of his 'race craft' after sticking it around Alonso, on the dirt, at Monza... To me, this just sounded pure PR. His race craft, for a top flight driver, IMO, is utter ste. Driving it wide on the dirt isn't the mark of a great overtake.
Think back to when he stuck it into Button's sidepod at Spa?! Trying to flick it left into zero space, realising mid move and throwing it back right... mid engine, mate. Not to mention what havoc the dirty air would be causing Newey's Wonder Car! It was always going to end up that way. When he took out Webber at Turkey... yeah, I think the vocal majority called it 50/50, but watch it... he gave himself zero space on a bumpy straight, the car pitched right. Hamilton was rightly berated for a similar thing at Canada. What else... his 'come back' through the field at Silverstone one year (I forget) after picking up a puncture on the second corner (cant remember if that was up to him, or Hamilton? Maybe the latter) It was called another 'great drive' at the time but lets be honest, it was the fastest car coming back to its natural position and I seem to recall more than a few instance of paint swapping with the back markers... In the fastest car? What's the point in taking the risks? Pass them on a straight.
To me, he'll see a gap that isn't there and goes for it. He has that kind of excitable note to his mannerism. The best I can liken it to is the podium at Singapore... Kimi swore, nothing major, then Vettel, beaming, over excited and witlessly took it one step further, just because. Like a teenager trying to upstage his older brother. He spots a chance, then throws himself into it without the wit or grace too many of his peers have in abundance.
Where Vettel really shines is over one lap. With no traffic or distraction, he'll fly. I think back to Suzuka 09 and still wince at some of the apex speeds, and he just nails it earlier than most. IIRC this is where he got the better of Webber, by getting on the throttle earlier, which gave Neweys Wonder Car the chance to employ all its aero tricks. Apparently Webber never quite grasped that. I dunno... it sounds a simple thing but hop in an E46 BMW and try driving on a low speed technical circuit - you'll soon notice the fraction of a second delay in throttle response and how it absolutely ruins your corner. Imagine a similar tick in a 700BHP race car, with all the downforce of two HRT's stuck together. It's going to get on your tits.
Maybe I'm being silly, likening his race craft to his sweary personality, or Neweys Wonder Car to an outdated BMW's infuriating throttle response, but I don't care it's been a long day and I'm tired. And I've watched him race every weekend for the last four years and just thought... nah.
And I've never been taken in by that grin of his. Behind closed doors you know he's a (stop)
Take Malaysia last year, he went wheel to wheel with Webberte. Driving it wide on the dirt isn't the mark of a great overtake.Think back to when he stuck it into Button's sidepod at Spa?! Trying to flick it left into zero space, realising mid move and throwing it back right... mid engine, mate. Not to mention what havoc the dirty air would be causing Newey's Wonder Car! It was always going to end up that way. When he took out Webber at Turkey... yeah, I think the vocal majority called it 50/50, but watch it... he gave himself zero space on a bumpy straight, the car pitched right. Hamilton was rightly berated for a similar thing at Canada. What else... his 'come back' through the field at Silverstone one year (I forget) after picking up a puncture on the second corner (cant remember if that was up to him, or Hamilton? Maybe the latter) It was called another 'great drive' at the time but lets be honest, it was the fastest car coming back to its natural position and I seem to recall more than a few instance of paint swapping with the back markers... In the fastest car? What's the point in taking the risks? Pass them on a straight.
To me, he'll see a gap that isn't there and goes for it. He has that kind of excitable note to his mannerism. The best I can liken it to is the podium at Singapore... Kimi swore, nothing major, then Vettel, beaming, over excited and witlessly took it one step further, just because. Like a teenager trying to upstage his older brother. He spots a chance, then throws himself into it without the wit or grace too many of his peers have in abundance.
Where Vettel really shines is over one lap. With no traffic or distraction, he'll fly. I think back to Suzuka 09 and still wince at some of the apex speeds, and he just nails it earlier than most. IIRC this is where he got the better of Webber, by getting on the throttle earlier, which gave Neweys Wonder Car the chance to employ all its aero tricks. Apparently Webber never quite grasped that. I dunno... it sounds a simple thing but hop in an E46 BMW and try driving on a low speed technical circuit - you'll soon notice the fraction of a second delay in throttle response and how it absolutely ruins your corner. Imagine a similar tick in a 700BHP race car, with all the downforce of two HRT's stuck together. It's going to get on your tits.
Maybe I'm being silly, likening his race craft to his sweary personality, or Neweys Wonder Car to an outdated BMW's infuriating throttle response, but I don't care it's been a long day and I'm tired. And I've watched him race every weekend for the last four years and just thought... nah.
And I've never been taken in by that grin of his. Behind closed doors you know he's a (stop)
He started off as raw and clumsy racer but has improved IMO. I had thought he was a pussy. He's more calculating in the mould of Prost/Piquet attacking when must.
Seb's driving style reminds me of Mansell. Both exploit grippy cars with edgy handling set up, turn in early and nail the throttle which is unorthodox. Hamilton is more textbook in going for late apex with oversteer; early turn in is usually because of understeer.
007 VXR said:
celicawrc said:
I'd say he is a worthy World Champion.
But not a worthy 4x World Champion.
4x is ALOT harder to do than JUST! "world champ" ........ See Lh ? But not a worthy 4x World Champion.
NRS said:
007 VXR said:
celicawrc said:
I'd say he is a worthy World Champion.
But not a worthy 4x World Champion.
4x is ALOT harder to do than JUST! "world champ" ........ See Lh ? But not a worthy 4x World Champion.
Vettel has won his titles because of the dominant Redbull. He has shown nothing on track to suggest otherwise.
CocoUK said:
Doink said:
You forget during those 4 years he had the best car on the grid which made his job considerably easier, now if he'd of won those 4 WDC in a Sauber then you'd have a point
That old chestnut hey!YOU forget during those 4 years he did NOT always have the best car on the grid etc etc
Gaz. said:
At the moment the Merc is by far the best car, and the two drivers have parity. What else is there to say?
For 90 odd races the RedBull was the class of the field for the majority of them.
I agree, but it was Seb winning, not the highly rated Webber! No one said how rubbish Webber was in all those years. Frankly, I am not sure why RB kept him so long having seen what DR is like.For 90 odd races the RedBull was the class of the field for the majority of them.
Seb is a class act. If anything, he is under rated by people who claim it is the car/Newey winning.
So, come the end of the season, will these Seb haters be saying that its the car/8 odd designers/engine that won this championship, or will they bang on about how Hamilton is the best driver? I do wonder!
RXED said:
Gaz. said:
At the moment the Merc is by far the best car, and the two drivers have parity. What else is there to say?
For 90 odd races the RedBull was the class of the field for the majority of them.
I agree, but it was Seb winning, not the highly rated Webber! No one said how rubbish Webber was in all those years. Frankly, I am not sure why RB kept him so long having seen what DR is like.For 90 odd races the RedBull was the class of the field for the majority of them.
Seb is a class act. If anything, he is under rated by people who claim it is the car/Newey winning.
So, come the end of the season, will these Seb haters be saying that its the car/8 odd designers/engine that won this championship, or will they bang on about how Hamilton is the best driver? I do wonder!
Gaz. said:
RXED said:
Will people say the same when Hamiliton wins this year? will he only win as the Merc is the best car?
At the moment the Merc is by far the best car, and the two drivers have parity. What else is there to say?I think that NR will be working how to do [+] that in the future and LH will be working to raise his speed to that of NR. IMO.
angrymoby said:
No, they'll be banging on about how either Hamilton beat the driver who gave a x7 WDC a schooling ...or Rosberg, who beat a WDC, whilst in the best car.
Schooled a x7 WDC - Hahaha seriously? Beat a man who is some 20 years older and past his prime, who also had less reliability over those years and less luck (You need a little to win!)How you can even breath M.Schumacher and N.Rosberg's name in the same conversation when discussing talent either shows your complete lack of knowledge, or a deeper routed issue with the most successful driver in history.
Schooled.......Please!
Anyway, I am not here to argue, I just dont understand how we keep coming back to Vettel and his supposedly lack of skill in a race car!
I will also just leave these images here... You can fill out the rest of this race and decide if someone with so little talent could have pulled this off, in the best car or not!
RXED said:
Anyway, I am not here to argue, I just dont understand how we keep coming back to Vettel and his supposedly lack of skill in a race car!
Because this thread has attracted all the Vettel haters and the same old rubbish is being spouted off. He's a 4 x WDC, they need to get over it.
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