****The Official Chinese Grand Prix thread*****
Discussion
Yes, some here miserably fail or refuse to see the broader picture of this season with the new formula engines compared to previous. Previous to this season, the Renault engines were the most reliable and powered some of the fastest cars including the most successful and fastest over those four previous seasons. When Vettel went against advice from the pit lane and posted those fastest laps he did so confident that the then proven Renault engine was up for it. That is patently NOT yet the case with the Renault Power Plants this season and by some margin. They are still unknown quantities and one thing is a known quantity, they do not have the pace of the Mercedes-Benz power plants..... yet and maybe will not match them.
If Vettel pushed harder and finished closer to his "yardstick" team mate say to within one second at the finish, he would still score the same level of points as he actually did when finishing many seconds behind him whilst at the same time doing so with less stress to those engines. Had he maxed out his engine it could have proved pointless. Literally for both him and his team with an engine related DNF.
There's more to being successful in this F1 mullarkey than simply flooring it all the time. Ask Lewis Hamilton who took his time learning that.
If Vettel pushed harder and finished closer to his "yardstick" team mate say to within one second at the finish, he would still score the same level of points as he actually did when finishing many seconds behind him whilst at the same time doing so with less stress to those engines. Had he maxed out his engine it could have proved pointless. Literally for both him and his team with an engine related DNF.
There's more to being successful in this F1 mullarkey than simply flooring it all the time. Ask Lewis Hamilton who took his time learning that.
MGJohn said:
Yes, some here miserably fail or refuse to see the broader picture of this season
and it appears you are one of them. It may be hard for you to accept, but in his own words regarding his teammate:Vettel said:
There's nothing between the cars so if he beats me he beats me fair and square. That's not to my liking. I know I have to do a little bit better.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/27087057The simple fact is Vettel was slow because he couldn't look after his tyres, which was why they were looking at a three stop. In both his 2nd and 3rd stints Vettel was ~ 0.7 a lap slower than Ricciardo, now you could say some of this lap time difference in his 3rd stint was engine saving but in his 2nd stint you can't use that excuse as he was racing, well holding up Ricciardo, it was just that he was slow.
Marko said:
"We don't understand why Vettel's tyre wear was so much higher than Ricciardo's"
Edited by Speedy11 on Friday 25th April 07:50
Speedy11 said:
The simple fact is Vettel was slow because he couldn't look after his tyres, which was why they were looking at a three stop. In both his 2nd and 3rd stints Vettel was ~ 0.7 a lap slower than Ricciardo, now you could say some of this lap time difference in his 3rd stint was engine saving but in his 2nd stint you can't use that excuse as he was racing, well holding up Ricciardo, it was just that he was slow.
Vettel is being given a new chassis for the next race, there is a theory the current one is not perfect. Time will tell...Marko said:
"We don't understand why Vettel's tyre wear was so much higher than Ricciardo's"
Edited by Speedy11 on Friday 25th April 07:50
ArrowSC said:
It may be hard for you to accept, but in his own words regarding his teammate:
Perfectly easy for me to accept what he and the other drivers say.Vettel said:
There's nothing between the cars so if he beats me he beats me fair and square. That's not to my liking. I know I have to do a little bit better.
Clearly you fail to comprehend the difference between stating being beaten fair and square and saving an engine whilst being unable to improve or, more importantly, protecting rather than lose that same track position. Spot the difference if you can. Not the same things at all ....
Being beaten for a place by 1 second or 30 is still being beaten fair and square. Only the margins are different in this instance. NOT the far more important placings and points tally for the individuals or the team.
You either don't get it or don't want to for whatever reason.
MGJohn said:
Yes, some here miserably fail or refuse to see the broader picture of this season with the new formula engines compared to previous. Previous to this season, the Renault engines were the most reliable and powered some of the fastest cars including the most successful and fastest over those four previous seasons. When Vettel went against advice from the pit lane and posted those fastest laps he did so confident that the then proven Renault engine was up for it. That is patently NOT yet the case with the Renault Power Plants this season and by some margin. They are still unknown quantities and one thing is a known quantity, they do not have the pace of the Mercedes-Benz power plants..... yet and maybe will not match them.
If Vettel pushed harder and finished closer to his "yardstick" team mate say to within one second at the finish, he would still score the same level of points as he actually did when finishing many seconds behind him whilst at the same time doing so with less stress to those engines. Had he maxed out his engine it could have proved pointless. Literally for both him and his team with an engine related DNF.
There's more to being successful in this F1 mullarkey than simply flooring it all the time. Ask Lewis Hamilton who took his time learning that.
I see where you are comming from, I don't actually subscibe to that idea fully though. Whilst it is prudent to do JUST enough to finish in the best place possible, Prost was a master of this, I belive that Vettel needs at this point to be pushing a little harder so the team can collect as much DATA as possible to move the car/power unit forward as quickly as possible. As a measure for Vettel, knowing DR is pushing and say finishing 30secs behind the Mercs, Vettel needs to push to find out HIS relative position to the mercs (as these will be HIS percieved competitors). If he is bimbling around saving the engine and gearbox waiting for it all to come good, then when/if it all comes good and he starts pushing and the car starts failing because he's now putting more stress into the car because he's maxing it out the extra pace will be for nought. He is metally strong, so I think being beaten by DC at the moment will not be disrupting his motivation/mojo/confidence, he'll be justifying it internally with something.If Vettel pushed harder and finished closer to his "yardstick" team mate say to within one second at the finish, he would still score the same level of points as he actually did when finishing many seconds behind him whilst at the same time doing so with less stress to those engines. Had he maxed out his engine it could have proved pointless. Literally for both him and his team with an engine related DNF.
There's more to being successful in this F1 mullarkey than simply flooring it all the time. Ask Lewis Hamilton who took his time learning that.
So i'm sitting here thinking that he's probably giving everything he can for the first 2/3rds 3/4, 5/6 of the race, or untill such point as he can't improve further and then knocking it back 10% or so, as do most of the grid. Saving these enigines at the moment will not have too much of a bearing on the end of the season, as if these enigine do their milage they'll be put in a corner, used for practice and IF needed brought out if they break a motor later in the season. BUT in saying that, the team would probably prefere to take a grid penalty for using an extra engine in a race if they use their allocation than use an old 'lifed' engine.
MGJohn said:
Yes, some here miserably fail or refuse to see the broader picture of this season with the new formula engines compared to previous. Previous to this season, the Renault engines were the most reliable and powered some of the fastest cars including the most successful and fastest over those four previous seasons. When Vettel went against advice from the pit lane and posted those fastest laps he did so confident that the then proven Renault engine was up for it. That is patently NOT yet the case with the Renault Power Plants this season and by some margin. They are still unknown quantities and one thing is a known quantity, they do not have the pace of the Mercedes-Benz power plants..... yet and maybe will not match them.
If Vettel pushed harder and finished closer to his "yardstick" team mate say to within one second at the finish, he would still score the same level of points as he actually did when finishing many seconds behind him whilst at the same time doing so with less stress to those engines. Had he maxed out his engine it could have proved pointless. Literally for both him and his team with an engine related DNF.
There's more to being successful in this F1 mullarkey than simply flooring it all the time. Ask Lewis Hamilton who took his time learning that.
What you have failed to realised/take into account is that there is more than just depending on the reliability of the Renault engine. There are a lot more factors to take into account. Further, reliability is not guaranteed. It is statistical. Indulging in FTD for no reason other than that he could is far from a mature, nor sensible, act. In fact it was childish. He also risked tyre failure, gearbox problems, and more and more and more. That is the broad picture.If Vettel pushed harder and finished closer to his "yardstick" team mate say to within one second at the finish, he would still score the same level of points as he actually did when finishing many seconds behind him whilst at the same time doing so with less stress to those engines. Had he maxed out his engine it could have proved pointless. Literally for both him and his team with an engine related DNF.
There's more to being successful in this F1 mullarkey than simply flooring it all the time. Ask Lewis Hamilton who took his time learning that.
His team didn't seem to have the faith that you have in the reliability of their engines, but then perhaps they, rather miserably, failed to see the full picture.
Gaz. said:
CraigyMc said:
Vettel is being given a new chassis for the next race, there is a theory the current one is not perfect. Time will tell...
They've been swapping chassis all season (they have 3). Note the yellow camera on Riccardo's car that Sebastien is getting into:
Mclaren usually do this with four chassis on rotation, but Mercedes do not.
gpudate.net said:
Sebastian Vettel is to be given a new chassis in an attempt to get on top of his early season struggles.
The reigning World Champion has struggled to adapt under the sport's latest regulation overhaul and recently admitted that new Red Bull team-mate Daniel Ricciardo has been outpacing him "fair and square".
Ricciardo beat Vettel to fourth at the Chinese Grand Prix, as the latter struggled with tyre degradation.
"We don't understand why Vettel's tyre wear was so much higher than Ricciardo's," Helmut Marko, a long-time advisor for the Milton Keynes-based squad, is quoted as saying by German magazine Sport Bild.
"We are now investigating whether his chassis was a fault. When a new one is ready, he will get it."
If the chassis is not the cause, Marko admits that it could take a long time for Vettel to fully resolve his issues.
"This year is so complex that even the engineers don't understand everything," he said. "That makes it even harder for Seb to tune the car to his needs. But he is a perfectionist. He will tinker with it until he gets it right."
The reigning World Champion has struggled to adapt under the sport's latest regulation overhaul and recently admitted that new Red Bull team-mate Daniel Ricciardo has been outpacing him "fair and square".
Ricciardo beat Vettel to fourth at the Chinese Grand Prix, as the latter struggled with tyre degradation.
"We don't understand why Vettel's tyre wear was so much higher than Ricciardo's," Helmut Marko, a long-time advisor for the Milton Keynes-based squad, is quoted as saying by German magazine Sport Bild.
"We are now investigating whether his chassis was a fault. When a new one is ready, he will get it."
If the chassis is not the cause, Marko admits that it could take a long time for Vettel to fully resolve his issues.
"This year is so complex that even the engineers don't understand everything," he said. "That makes it even harder for Seb to tune the car to his needs. But he is a perfectionist. He will tinker with it until he gets it right."
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