F1 engine note - Why all the haters?
Discussion
chonok said:
stevesuk said:
Good job Bernie is reportedly in the process of setting up a series for year 2000 era F1 cars 
link/details please ???Edited by stevesuk on Monday 26th May 21:01
Just got back from Monaco where the gp2 race actually looked faster purely down to the sound ,they need to do something for next season because the noise adds to the whole experience .the speaker system for the commentary in 4 languages was so much louder than the f1 cars ,they look visibly slower because they are so quiet ,has anybody else noticed this or is it just me ?
Some people just can't handle change / progress. That's why the same people who were bemoaning the new regs before a 2014 spec engine even ran are still boosting the post counts of all of the discussion threads several months down the line with their tiresome 'the sport is ruined' rhetoric, even though they are apparenly 'bored' by 'ruined' F1 2014 and, for all intents and purposes, probably should've found something else to watch which is noisy enough to keep them entertained. The main runway at Gatwick, perhaps. Maybe a room full of high-speed pneumatic cut-off saws. Perhaps the best thing for them is they just go to the Goodwood revival and listen to the glorious sounds of the past, when they'll realise that the V8s weren't all that anyway compared to what went before.
Anybody who is able to see past the fact that the cars are a bit quieter should be able to appreciate the scale of the challenge 2014 posed to the teams, and now the drivers. Hear the tyre squeal. Watch the driver's corrections on the wheel and listen to the driver's control on the throttle as they meter out the unpredictable lumps of torque coming through the drivetrain. The 2013 cars were thoroughly stuck down. The formula was stagnant. The new noise is much more interesting.
Efficiency doesn't sound good. Sound is a waste of energy. If the sport is going to continue down the path of increased efficiency, all of these 'haters' should give up now and stop boring the fans on the internet, because apart from the possability of artificial additives to make the cars louder, the cars aren't getting louder any time soon.
Anybody who is able to see past the fact that the cars are a bit quieter should be able to appreciate the scale of the challenge 2014 posed to the teams, and now the drivers. Hear the tyre squeal. Watch the driver's corrections on the wheel and listen to the driver's control on the throttle as they meter out the unpredictable lumps of torque coming through the drivetrain. The 2013 cars were thoroughly stuck down. The formula was stagnant. The new noise is much more interesting.
Efficiency doesn't sound good. Sound is a waste of energy. If the sport is going to continue down the path of increased efficiency, all of these 'haters' should give up now and stop boring the fans on the internet, because apart from the possability of artificial additives to make the cars louder, the cars aren't getting louder any time soon.
Edited by BritishRacinGrin on Wednesday 28th May 03:01
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Did I say either of those things?anonymous said:
[redacted]
I don't think the current sound is 's
t'. I think people are getting a bit confused by the difference between sound and volume. Frankly if the cars are quick, challenging to drive, exciting enough to attract the creme de la creme of drivers, and the racing isn't suffering then I would probably draw the line at ditching the combustion engine altogether and going full electric. One thing I think they should have done / should do is tweak the fuel flow limit to make it worth revving the engines out, even if it's only to the 15k limit currently, or up it to 18k... That way there would be a familiar "sound", just less volume - which I think would have a huge impact on the perceived sound.
The current F1 brand is identified by the old v10 / v8 wail, maintain that and you're keeping some of the brand together.
Part of the problem I think is that it sounds like they're short shifting, which doesn't sound very "racey".
The current F1 brand is identified by the old v10 / v8 wail, maintain that and you're keeping some of the brand together.
Part of the problem I think is that it sounds like they're short shifting, which doesn't sound very "racey".
RemarkLima said:
The current F1 brand is identified by the old v10 / v8 wail, maintain that and you're keeping some of the brand together.
Are you suggesting that a "brand" should never change?The V10/V8 scream was new once. What about the V16s,Straight 6s, Straight 4s, V12s and Flat 12s of the past? Were they not part of an F1 brand in their day?
I think its a combination of noise & endless regulations. DRC & aerodynamics seem to have killed overtaking. Run-off areas at the newer tracks are tarmac instead of gravel. I could go on & on...... Fair enough, safety is paramount, & nobody wants to see a driver die, but if you want proper excitement & raw racing, together with noise, danger & testosterone, go to a bike race!! Moto GP is good, but rather dominated by Spanish riders & I fear being dumbed down a bit like F1, so go to BSB - not too pricey either, & you don't need to go abroad.
Not a solution for many car racing fans. You may as well say go and watch horse racing or powerboat racing - quite different disciplines that can be exciting, but they are not car racing.
F1 evolves - it always has.
The evolution is often down to "artificial" stipulations. After all, isn't the setting of a basic formula an "artificial" set of stipulated rules in the first place?
For me, the excitement and technical interest of F1 has waxed and waned depending on what was going on regarding the regulations and what drivers were dominant and whether the racing itself was interesting to watch.
In my opinion, it reached an all time low in the Schumacher period. I still watched it - but sometimes I wondered why.
Over the past few years, I have been more enthused than I have been since the mid 1990s.
F1 evolves - it always has.
The evolution is often down to "artificial" stipulations. After all, isn't the setting of a basic formula an "artificial" set of stipulated rules in the first place?
For me, the excitement and technical interest of F1 has waxed and waned depending on what was going on regarding the regulations and what drivers were dominant and whether the racing itself was interesting to watch.
In my opinion, it reached an all time low in the Schumacher period. I still watched it - but sometimes I wondered why.
Over the past few years, I have been more enthused than I have been since the mid 1990s.
Eric Mc said:
RemarkLima said:
The current F1 brand is identified by the old v10 / v8 wail, maintain that and you're keeping some of the brand together.
Are you suggesting that a "brand" should never change?The V10/V8 scream was new once. What about the V16s,Straight 6s, Straight 4s, V12s and Flat 12s of the past? Were they not part of an F1 brand in their day?
If the regs allowed for scope then you could still have some screamers, even if half the field was - like the transition from 3 litre NA to 1.5 litre turbo's... You had an option, and only when the turbo's became wholly reliable did everyone switch. It seems that the regs were so prescriptive in the design of the engine that you really only had one outcome.
It's a shame, as you could keep some screaming engines, see they're going the same speed as the short shifters and the flat earthers may see there's no real difference. A bit like MotoGP with the Ducati's sounding like they're plodding along next to the rest of the field... When they're just as quick, if not more so.
Still, I can't see anything changing for the rev limits, so it'll just be somehow louder.
hawk 427 said:
Just got back from Monaco where the gp2 race actually looked faster purely down to the sound ,they need to do something for next season because the noise adds to the whole experience .the speaker system for the commentary in 4 languages was so much louder than the f1 cars ,they look visibly slower because they are so quiet ,has anybody else noticed this or is it just me ?
Not just you, I've always thought this too.Watch an old vid of a v10 and compare to this seasons and I think this season they look sooooo much slower...
Eric Mc said:
I would prefer more latitude in interpreting basic engine regs - rather than stipulating everything so precisely. That would give a bit more variety and interest.
F1 is (well, it should be) about innovation, so I agree. I'd like to have seen reg changes that could have had different interpretations of power unit solutions*. I do like the lower downforce direction they've taken, though. To be honest, I don't really care if an F1 car is 1-2 seconds a lap slower round a track.
- ...and call me a luddite, louder, higher revving ones at that.
BritishRacinGrin said:
No stuff, Sherlock! They are slower. Most of the lap records were set in the V10 era.
I know, i'm not stupid, but I mean a lot, lot slower.I really can't understand your comment 'people don't like change'
So over the last few years the cars have got slower, quieter and you expect people to like this change??
chonok said:
BritishRacinGrin said:
No stuff, Sherlock! They are slower. Most of the lap records were set in the V10 era.
I know, i'm not stupid, but I mean a lot, lot slower.I really can't understand your comment 'people don't like change'
So over the last few years the cars have got slower, quieter and you expect people to like this change??
I like this change a lot. Some people can't see past the noise. I think that is a mistake. These cars are more entertaining than the V8's in recent years by quite a margin.
chonok said:
I didn't say that eric.
If the regs were changed to go slower and slower over the years, why have they spend 10's of millions doing it?
Because it is harder to stop a designer from making his car faster.If the regs were changed to go slower and slower over the years, why have they spend 10's of millions doing it?
The natural direction of a speed based activity is for the devices produced to get faster over time. In a speed competitive setting, that is inevitable.
Changing specs and formulae to hold the designers back will result in costs being incurred by the teams as they try to meet the slowing down requirements whilst at the same time trying to be faster than the other chap.
It's a kind of "squaring the circle" dilemma.
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