Ecclestone wants teams to run three cars

[Walford]

he did,nt want the ers kers ners and all the other cr@p, lift and coast, save fuel, he aint that daft

[JonRB]

CaptainSensib1e said:

For once, I don't think this is a bad idea. A lot of the cost in F1 is developing the car, rather than simply building it. Having 3 cars per team, and less teams, would promote economies of scale.

So if you went from 12 teams x 2 drivers to 8 teams x 3 drivers there would be a lot less overall costs within F1 as a business on car development. The total pot of F1 cash would be split between less teams, which could make it easier for the smaller teams to compete with the bigger teams if the budget was distributed fairly.

I also like the idea of saying the 3rd car has to have a rookie in with, say, less than 2 years of F1 experience. They could laos use the third car as a test bed for new developments, which again should help with reducing testing costs.

I agree. It makes a huge amount of sense and, as you say, there are very clear economies of scale.

It's not even as if race teams having more than 2 cars is unprecedented. F1 teams did in the past, Le Mans and BTCC still do. And for years Aussie V8s had only had 2 manufacturers for the entire grid.

[MartG]

Maybe allow the smaller teams to 'sell' one of their grid slots to the bigger teams - helps finance smaller teams who then only have to field one car as well as reducing their manpower & spares costs ?

[BigBob]

ash73 said:

How about a female third driver in each team? That would make up the numbers for a separate WWDC, and meanwhile the women could also compete with the men in equal cars.

What's all this push to get a woman in an F1 car FFS - I HATE discrimination in any form.

If they're good enough they're in; if they're not good enough, lacking a penis shouldn't give them an advantage.

BB

[Scuffers]

BigBob said:

ash73 said:

How about a female third driver in each team? That would make up the numbers for a separate WWDC, and meanwhile the women could also compete with the men in equal cars.

What's all this push to get a woman in an F1 car FFS - I HATE discrimination in any form.

If they're good enough they're in; if they're not good enough, lacking a penis shouldn't give them an advantage.

BB

^^^^^^ This! ^^^^^^^

[JonRB]

MartG said:

Maybe allow the smaller teams to 'sell' one of their grid slots to the bigger teams - helps finance smaller teams who then only have to field one car as well as reducing their manpower & spares costs ?

The majority of the costs in F1 are not in building the cars. I doubt there would be a significant cost reduction in fielding one car rather than two.

[JonRB]

BigBob said:

What's all this push to get a woman in an F1 car FFS - I HATE discrimination in any form.

If they're good enough they're in; if they're not good enough, lacking a penis shouldn't give them an advantage.

BB

I agree. "Positive discrimination" is as bad as what it seeks to counter.

[MartG]

JonRB said:

I agree. "Positive discrimination" is as bad as what it seeks to counter.

Creating a specific championship for women, because they are percieved as not being able to compete on a level with men, is rather patronising IMO

As said above - if they are good enough then they'll be there on merit

[MartG]

ash73 said:

MartG said:

Creating a specific championship for women, because they are percieved as not being able to compete on a level with men, is rather patronising IMO

Why? That's how it's done in every other sport.

Doesn't stop it being patronising

[thegreenhell]

ash73 said:

MartG said:

Creating a specific championship for women, because they are percieved as not being able to compete on a level with men, is rather patronising IMO

Why? That's how it's done in every other sport.

Most other segregated sports have a major physical element, strength or endurance for example, where the different physiology plays a significant role in performance potential of the individual. While there is a physical element to driving, it is not the key performance differentiator. Men and women can compete on equal terms, as evidenced by them competing side by side in the same motor races already. There should not be any bias, nor be any need for bias, either positive or negative, to either exclude women or force teams to employ female drivers.

[JonRB]

Maybe we could take the discussion of women in F1 into the thread that is already running on it chaps?

[Chrisgr31]

Can someone explain how the economics of this third car work?

The teams would have a 3rd car so they would get more sponsorship. Are we sure? Surely if people wanted to sponsor the top teams they already would be. Who can actually name all the sponsors on the big teams cars let alone the small ones? Generally I suspect you can only name the main sponsor. If you have 3 car teams its likely that you'll have the first 6 cars from 2 of those teams, who is going to want to sponsr the teams that are down at 7-24 etc?

Not only that but currently the smaller teams buy kit from the larger teams, so the larger teams will lose that income.

It will also make it even more difficult to new comers to the sport.

So all in all I am not sure the benefits are there, mind you by the time it comes in it will be pay per view on TV and I wont be watching!

[JonRB]

I think the rationale is that we want full grids and it doesn't cost 33% more to run a 3rd car - more like a fraction of that, since the fixed costs of running a team are so large. So there are economies of scale to be had.

[Vaud]

ash73 said:

Why? That's how it's done in every other sport.

It's odd. Some sports were segregated, then desegregated and now are segregated again, at an Olympic level.

[Scuffers]

Chrisgr31 said:

Can someone explain how the economics of this third car work?

The teams would have a 3rd car so they would get more sponsorship. Are we sure? Surely if people wanted to sponsor the top teams they already would be. Who can actually name all the sponsors on the big teams cars let alone the small ones? Generally I suspect you can only name the main sponsor. If you have 3 car teams its likely that you'll have the first 6 cars from 2 of those teams, who is going to want to sponsr the teams that are down at 7-24 etc?

Not only that but currently the smaller teams buy kit from the larger teams, so the larger teams will lose that income.

It will also make it even more difficult to new comers to the sport.

So all in all I am not sure the benefits are there, mind you by the time it comes in it will be pay per view on TV and I wont be watching!

not sure I follow your logic?

for a team like Williams to run a third car will cost them bugger all (relevantly) and whilst you could argue that the main team sponsor will not want to be paying any more, what's to say they have to have the same sponsorship on the third car? (much like BAR tried and yes the rules would need looking at).

other point is the smaller teams all have pay drivers, their third driver would also be a pay driver with their own personal sponsors to bring to the table.

as for the bigger teams that sell parts (gearboxes etc) this increases their market, not reduces it, unless you're going to go with less teams?

I like the idea of 11/12 teams of 3 cars

[Vaud]

Scuffers said:

I like the idea of 11/12 teams of 3 cars

Could most circuits cope with that number of cars in the pits? 36 cars on track sounds like a recipe for hassle.

26 was the max for a race in recent decades?

[Scuffers]

Vaud said:

Scuffers said:

I like the idea of 11/12 teams of 3 cars

Could most circuits cope with that number of cars in the pits? 36 cars on track sounds like a recipe for hassle.

26 was the max for a race in recent decades?

most ccts around the world run far higher numbers than this already, just not for F1, Silverstone as an example could easily run 50+ no problem (been on the grid there with 86 starters before)

as for garages, have you ever been to silverstone? even the old pits are MASSIVE and plentiful, only places that would be hard would be monaco and the like.

[MartG]

Scuffers said:

...... and whilst you could argue that the main team sponsor will not want to be paying any more, what's to say they have to have the same sponsorship on the third car? (much like BAR tried and yes the rules would need looking at).

IIRC at one time McLaren ran 3 cars, two in Marlboro livery and one in Yardley

[mikef]

ash73 said:

MartG said:

Creating a specific championship for women, because they are percieved as not being able to compete on a level with men, is rather patronising IMO

Why? That's how it's done in every other sport.

Not equestrian sports it isn't.