Can a female legitimately compete in F1?
Discussion
I see two arguments here regarding female drivers:
Could a female endure a race on a par with her male counterparts?
Would a team be willing to invest, train and ultimately back a female driver?
I would have thought there could be many advantages to a Lewis Hamilton type investment towards a female driver (advertising, air time etc), so that only leaves could they compete on an equal level?
I see F1 as an endurance sport like cycling, rowing, etc and in those sports women don't compete on an equal level, but could they?
Could a female endure a race on a par with her male counterparts?
Would a team be willing to invest, train and ultimately back a female driver?
I would have thought there could be many advantages to a Lewis Hamilton type investment towards a female driver (advertising, air time etc), so that only leaves could they compete on an equal level?
I see F1 as an endurance sport like cycling, rowing, etc and in those sports women don't compete on an equal level, but could they?
I have had such a laugh at some of these comments but I am actually worried that some of them are serious!
There is no argument - it is obvious that there could be a female F1 champion. There are no gender specific physical or mental limitations to stop a woman becoming a world champion.
However, I doubt it will happen simply because of statistics. If I remember correctly some of the figures I read a while ago, girls represent just under 10% of entries to the junior motor racing series, and female entrants drop to about 7% in more senior series. Therefore, the odds are massively stacked against a female making it to the top.
However, there are some really talented females out there (they would certainly make most men look very slow). Jamie Chadwick does very well in Ginetta Junior, Alice Powell at only 21 is having a good career, Suzie Wolff and Katherine Legge are perhaps now too old to make it to the very top but they prove that women can be very fast drivers. I guess the answer is 'never say never'.
There is no argument - it is obvious that there could be a female F1 champion. There are no gender specific physical or mental limitations to stop a woman becoming a world champion.
However, I doubt it will happen simply because of statistics. If I remember correctly some of the figures I read a while ago, girls represent just under 10% of entries to the junior motor racing series, and female entrants drop to about 7% in more senior series. Therefore, the odds are massively stacked against a female making it to the top.
However, there are some really talented females out there (they would certainly make most men look very slow). Jamie Chadwick does very well in Ginetta Junior, Alice Powell at only 21 is having a good career, Suzie Wolff and Katherine Legge are perhaps now too old to make it to the very top but they prove that women can be very fast drivers. I guess the answer is 'never say never'.
A female could succeed at the highest level of motor sport. I know only Desire Wilson has won in an F1 car, but as others have said, Pat Moss competed at the top in rallying and I remember Lela Lombardi frightening a few F5000 drivers. Don`t think Suzi Wolf and her frankly non existent record of success is doing female drivers any favours.
skeggysteve said:
Sorry but your wrong, Pastor got his drive not because he is quick but because he had a very (very, very) large cheque to give to a team.
Isn't that the case with Wolfe too though? She wouldn't be where she is now based on merit, compared to other more worthy female drivers. The real danger, if one can call it that, is if she becomes the first female driver and is terrible - as skeptics won't be able to look past the gender when assessing her performance.Also, advertisers want exposure above all else. How often do you see the backmarkers on TV?
Durzel said:
Isn't that the case with Wolfe too though? She wouldn't be where she is now based on merit, compared to other more worthy female drivers. The real danger, if one can call it that, is if she becomes the first female driver and is terrible - as skeptics won't be able to look past the gender when assessing her performance.
Also, advertisers want exposure above all else. How often do you see the backmarkers on TV?
Well she is married to Toto , how much are Merc power trains worth Also, advertisers want exposure above all else. How often do you see the backmarkers on TV?
simonpeter said:
A female could succeed at the highest level of motor sport. I know only Desire Wilson has won in an F1 car, but as others have said, Pat Moss competed at the top in rallying and I remember Lela Lombardi frightening a few F5000 drivers. Don`t think Suzi Wolf and her frankly non existent record of success is doing female drivers any favours.
This. Makes me laugh when Wolf says her being a female is a hinderance to her, when infact the complete opposite is true. Several of her (male) team-mates from the lower formulas have since had to quit motorsport due to lack of finances / opportunities. Most of those completeley out performed her over a season.vxr8mate said:
Could a female endure a race on a par with her male counterparts?
I see F1 as an endurance sport like cycling, rowing, etc and in those sports women don't compete on an equal level, but could they?
Many sportswomen are actually better than men at Endurance events, the difference is where they are providing the motive power- cycling, rowing, running etc they have a physical disadvantage in size and power. I see F1 as an endurance sport like cycling, rowing, etc and in those sports women don't compete on an equal level, but could they?
Motorsport is more like sailing, where your mental strength and stamina to withstand the conditions prevail, in which case I see no reason why a women couldn't compete and win at the highest level of F1.
The issue, as has already been highlighted, is the talent pool- it doesn't matter if 5000 useless blokes try out Karting if you find 1 Lewis Hamilton, but only 10 girls might try so the odds of you finding someone talented are incredibly low.
Sooner or later, by chance I suspect a really good female driver will get far enough, young enough to get noticed, when that happens the F1 teams will be tripping over each other to sign her as the uniqueness will be worth millions in marketing alone!
I think what it basically comes down to is that boys don't like to be beaten by girls (except at Max Mosley private parties). Driving cars is seen as a male activity, and the system set up around motorsport strongly favours male rather than female success, both from sexist bias and numerical advantage. I don't think there is any physiological reason why a female couldn't be the best, fastest racing driver in the world, but the barriers to this being realised, perceived or otherwise on both sides, make this statistically very unlikely at the moment.
thegreenhell said:
I think what it basically comes down to is that boys don't like to be beaten by girls (except at Max Mosley private parties). Driving cars is seen as a male activity, and the system set up around motorsport strongly favours male rather than female success, both from sexist bias and numerical advantage. I don't think there is any physiological reason why a female couldn't be the best, fastest racing driver in the world, but the barriers to this being realised, perceived or otherwise on both sides, make this statistically very unlikely at the moment.
Rubbish. What barriers? Plenty of good female drivers have gone far in motorsport but as mentioned there are so few of them compared to males so thats why few have been seen in F1.thiscocks said:
thegreenhell said:
I think what it basically comes down to is that boys don't like to be beaten by girls (except at Max Mosley private parties). Driving cars is seen as a male activity, and the system set up around motorsport strongly favours male rather than female success, both from sexist bias and numerical advantage. I don't think there is any physiological reason why a female couldn't be the best, fastest racing driver in the world, but the barriers to this being realised, perceived or otherwise on both sides, make this statistically very unlikely at the moment.
Rubbish. What barriers? Plenty of good female drivers have gone far in motorsport but as mentioned there are so few of them compared to males so thats why few have been seen in F1.A woman I work with was looking at a news report of a race meeting that included a women only race. She immediately announced that this was because the men didn't want to risk being beaten by a woman. It was pointed out to her that it was a women only race not a men only race and all the other races open to both men and women, but she couldn't see it.
Dr Jekyll said:
Mr_Thyroid said:
I remember Steve Davis making that argument as to why women will probably never compete equally with men in snooker - it's argument works for snooker but not for motor racing because one sport is enormous fun to compete in and practice, the other is enormously pointless.
Dare I ask which is which? Both are presumably fun for those who do it, both can be regarded as enormously pointless.QuantumTokoloshi said:
Money and a willing talent pool is all that is required.
True in an ideal world but I think in reality it is more complicated for a woman.Women are objectified to a much much greater extent than men - if she's hot she has to put up with the Anna Kournikova type perving - if she's not she has put up with the Mary Beard type abuse.
If a woman fails it is because she is a woman - for a man, he just wasn't quite good enough.
If a team manager hires a woman they are "just trying to cash-in on her marketability" - so if she fails the manager looks foolish.
In the lower ranks it is a joke to "be beaten by a girl", "drive like a girl".
etc
Mr_Thyroid said:
True in an ideal world but I think in reality it is more complicated for a woman.
Women are objectified to a much much greater extent than men - if she's hot she has to put up with the Anna Kournikova type perving - if she's not she has put up with the Mary Beard type abuse.
If a woman fails it is because she is a woman - for a man, he just wasn't quite good enough.
If a team manager hires a woman they are "just trying to cash-in on her marketability" - so if she fails the manager looks foolish.
In the lower ranks it is a joke to "be beaten by a girl", "drive like a girl".
etc
I think everything you have written has merit and are some of the most likely reactions to this change. However, who really knows. It could be just the thing F1 needs.Women are objectified to a much much greater extent than men - if she's hot she has to put up with the Anna Kournikova type perving - if she's not she has put up with the Mary Beard type abuse.
If a woman fails it is because she is a woman - for a man, he just wasn't quite good enough.
If a team manager hires a woman they are "just trying to cash-in on her marketability" - so if she fails the manager looks foolish.
In the lower ranks it is a joke to "be beaten by a girl", "drive like a girl".
etc
Mr_Thyroid said:
...in an ideal world...
I would hope that most people would think this was a good aim and a positive step.Ultimately if there was a girl out there as fast and consistent as, say, Alonso, she'd have a contract right now. I don't think there is an arbitrary glass ceiling in place, rather that in F1 you either have to be amazingly good, or have very deep pockets.
That's not to say female Alonsos don't exist, moreover that they probably don't naturally get the same opportunities as the guys, so get less recognition and exposure. You can see broadly the same phenomenon in other areas in life - like IT careers etc.
So really the problem is systemic across motorsport, at least the traditional feeder routes anyway. Until that is resolved they will likely remain on the periphery with a few outliers like Wolfe, etc that can buy/marry their way into it.
That's not to say female Alonsos don't exist, moreover that they probably don't naturally get the same opportunities as the guys, so get less recognition and exposure. You can see broadly the same phenomenon in other areas in life - like IT careers etc.
So really the problem is systemic across motorsport, at least the traditional feeder routes anyway. Until that is resolved they will likely remain on the periphery with a few outliers like Wolfe, etc that can buy/marry their way into it.
Mr_Thyroid said:
If a team manager hires a woman they are "just trying to cash-in on her marketability" - so if she fails the manager looks foolish.
Perversely though the marketability is probably the biggest issue - how many of the brands that use their connection to an F1 driver for advertising could make those same adverts with a female driver? Or how many brands are there that could use a female F1 driver for advertising in a non "bikini" way?REALIST123 said:
Women do not compete, one against one, directly in tennis. They aren't physically capable.
There was a similar argument in the 70s between Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs, that women cant compete with men, he challenged her to a match and lost. She went on to form the WTA.I would say yes women can compete, if they wanted to....
davepoth said:
Perversely though the marketability is probably the biggest issue - how many of the brands that use their connection to an F1 driver for advertising could make those same adverts with a female driver? Or how many brands are there that could use a female F1 driver for advertising in a non "bikini" way?
I dunno, Santander manage it already with Jenson and Jessica Ennis. Or Tag Heuer.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff