More FIA Dice Rolling-FRIC Suspension to be Banned

[Derek Smith]

This is probably more to do with Red Bull throwing a strop.

On the bright side, it might bring the grid a bit closer.

That said, it is a dirty, underhand move, one which seems to me to be against the spirit of fair play.

So nothing new there then.

[tank slapper]

Derek Smith said:

This is probably more to do with Red Bull throwing a strop.

If that is the case, then it just reinforces my opinion that Red Bull aren't in it for sportsmanship, only for the publicity. They were quite happy to stretch the rules to the absolute limit with their bendy wings when it worked in their favour.

The FIA really need to get a grip with stuff like this. It's a very transparent attempt to stir things up, a bit like Renault's mass damper being classified as a moveable aerodynamic device, despite being completely internal and not in the airflow in any way. Its no wonder people get disillusioned with F1.

[woof]

It's not the worse Ferrari international assistance move. Remember when they banned the Michelins that Mclaren and others had been running for several seasons, saying they were the wrong profile !!

[Flying Toilet]

Derek Smith said:

This is probably more to do with Red Bull throwing a strop.

On the bright side, it might bring the grid a bit closer.

That said, it is a dirty, underhand move, one which seems to me to be against the spirit of fair play.

So nothing new there then.

I'd say Ferrari rather than Red Bull.

[Likes Fast Cars]

And what about cost cutting?

Those (mates of Bernie's) wa ers at the FIA don't seem to understand that changes to rules = increased costs.
Hypocrites.

[Likes Fast Cars]

Flying Toilet said:

I'd say Ferrari rather than Red Bull.

^ this, for sure if past history is anything to go on.

[revrange]

It hits red Bull, Merc & Ferrari harder than many other teams, which is funny as these 3 putting up the stiffest residence to cost cutting.

I believe this is a move but the FIA to show its muscle, and beat the teams into serious cost cutting measures.

I believe all the teams run some form of system, so it will hit all of them hard.

[anonymous-user]

revrange said:

It hits red Bull, Merc & Ferrari harder than many other teams, which is funny as these 3 putting up the stiffest residence to cost cutting.

I believe this is a move but the FIA to show its muscle, and beat the teams into serious cost cutting measures.

I believe all the teams run some form of system, so it will hit all of them hard.

Can you explain how forcing the teams to redesign their suspensions and then start a new development process to get the cars back up to speed aids cost cutting?

[Likes Fast Cars]

REALIST123 said:

revrange said:

It hits red Bull, Merc & Ferrari harder than many other teams, which is funny as these 3 putting up the stiffest residence to cost cutting.

I believe this is a move but the FIA to show its muscle, and beat the teams into serious cost cutting measures.

I believe all the teams run some form of system, so it will hit all of them hard.

Can you explain how forcing the teams to redesign their suspensions and then start a new development process to get the cars back up to speed aids cost cutting?

Maybe revrange means the smaller teams who are pushing for cost-cutting will really go ballistic when they are forced to incur more costs, therefore pressuring those larger teams to get into line on cost-cutting.

Of course this may all be part of that little s t Bernie's plan to get rid of smaller teams and get some teams to run 3 cars. Smaller team go bust with the extra (unbudgetted) costs needed to change suspension.

[Likes Fast Cars]

Gaz. said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Sauber go under over this. Had Caterham not been sold I think this would have finished them too. Marussia have had FRIC since 2010 and probably face financial strife too. Although with the FIA banning this & trying to curb the Merc ERS system I do wonder if Merc will pull out at the end of the season and taking their PU with them.

Let's assume Merc did something like that, and bearing in mind Ferrari are locked into a sweet deal with FOM and the FIA (from what I understand), could Merc encourage other teams (McLaren, Williams, plus smaller teams especially those using the Merc PU - as you say, take the PU with them) and perhaps some rival manufacturers to form a serious break-away series to rival F1?

Leaving Ferrari stuck in F1 with a few smaller competitors? (probably with customer chassis??).

After all they (Merc) are doing well this in F1 and that must be translating into increased sales of the more lucrative super-luxury /high-end sports ranges of cars they manufacture. So why pull out when you're showing a clean pair of heels to your (commercial) arch rivals (Ferrari, McLaren)?

Who knows what the end game is with these lunatics who are "running" the sport.

[Likes Fast Cars]

& btw, I hope Sauber don't go under, nor Marussia.

[entropy]

Charlie Whiting should have left years ago.

I can't believe the ineptitude of this guy trying to enforce the sport by wanting to ban things mid-season and yet this guy ran race teams.

He tried to ban blown diffusers mid-season but had to do a U-turn, tried to ban active suspension in '93 but had do a U turn; both due to costs and short time frame.

Edit - I don't mind things getting banned. Part of the joy of following F1 is seeing what the geeks come up with. We've had the headline grabbing silver bullets over the years but F1 is and aerospace industry and comes down to small details like vortex generators, intricate front wing designs and elements, tyre squirt holes, blown wheel hubs and even diffusers are no longer boring rectangular designs.

Edited by entropy on Wednesday 9th July 15:43

[Likes Fast Cars]

entropy said:

Charlie Whiting should have left years ago.

I can't believe the ineptitude of this guy trying to enforce the sport by wanting to ban things mid-season and yet this guy ran race teams.

Edited by entropy on Wednesday 9th July 15:43

You're being way too polite about these guys.

would be more appropriate if you ask me

[hairyben]

REALIST123 said:

revrange said:

It hits red Bull, Merc & Ferrari harder than many other teams, which is funny as these 3 putting up the stiffest residence to cost cutting.

I believe this is a move but the FIA to show its muscle, and beat the teams into serious cost cutting measures.

I believe all the teams run some form of system, so it will hit all of them hard.

Can you explain how forcing the teams to redesign their suspensions and then start a new development process to get the cars back up to speed aids cost cutting?

I've been wondering if teams don't have parallel development teams researching alternatives for any part they think "might" be banned so they're not left high & dry when fia happens. certainly when ferrari "fia" banned the mass damper we were led to believe it was "crucial" to the renaults fundamental design, but renault seemed to manage just fine without it.

I wonder if I'm right, and how much cost is incurred in such research?

Sad day, todt's stewardship of the fia has been largely free of this kind of BS tampering.

[Crafty_]

Been thinking about this, if FRIC is a movable device, then, surely any suspension is ?

Lets say we have a car that rolls in corners, if I fit stiffer shocks to one side, the car remains more level. Likewise a anti roll bar will do a similar sort of thing.
If I put stiffer units on the back it helps keep the car more level during acceleration.

I'm not sure of the distinction between conventional & FRIC based on what we've heard from Charlie.

[Likes Fast Cars]

Crafty_ said:

Been thinking about this, if FRIC is a movable device, then, surely any suspension is ?

Lets say we have a car that rolls in corners, if I fit stiffer shocks to one side, the car remains more level. Likewise a anti roll bar will do a similar sort of thing.
If I put stiffer units on the back it helps keep the car more level during acceleration.

I'm not sure of the distinction between conventional & FRIC based on what we've heard from Charlie.

Stop giving ideas to the goons from the FIA!!

One of them may read this and start getting even more ideas about how to really f k it all up!

[entropy]

Crafty_ said:

Been thinking about this, if FRIC is a movable device, then, surely any suspension is ?

Lets say we have a car that rolls in corners, if I fit stiffer shocks to one side, the car remains more level. Likewise a anti roll bar will do a similar sort of thing.
If I put stiffer units on the back it helps keep the car more level during acceleration.

I'm not sure of the distinction between conventional & FRIC based on what we've heard from Charlie.

Basically FRIC manipulates pitch and roll stability - which will affect rake, ride height, yaw - too much for its own good, like Lotus's anti-dive suspension.

The FIA would rather the suspension be a rudimentary mechanical set up. Whiting has always said that there were technologies that he didn't want in F1.

[entropy]

Crafty_ said:

Been thinking about this, if FRIC is a movable device, then, surely any suspension is ?

Lets say we have a car that rolls in corners, if I fit stiffer shocks to one side, the car remains more level. Likewise a anti roll bar will do a similar sort of thing.
If I put stiffer units on the back it helps keep the car more level during acceleration.

I'm not sure of the distinction between conventional & FRIC based on what we've heard from Charlie.

Basically FRIC manipulates pitch and roll stability - which will affect rake, ride height, yaw - too much for its own good, like Lotus's anti-dive suspension.

The FIA would rather the suspension be a rudimentary mechanical set up. Whiting has always said that there were technologies that he didn't want in F1.

[Likes Fast Cars]

entropy said:

Whiting has always said that there were technologies that he didn't want in F1.

More of the typical attitude from these guys in the FIA and Bernie's mates, they treat the sport like it's their own little fiefdom.

[CraigyMc]

Crafty_ said:

Been thinking about this, if FRIC is a movable device, then, surely any suspension is ?

Lets say we have a car that rolls in corners, if I fit stiffer shocks to one side, the car remains more level. Likewise a anti roll bar will do a similar sort of thing.
If I put stiffer units on the back it helps keep the car more level during acceleration.

I'm not sure of the distinction between conventional & FRIC based on what we've heard from Charlie.

I've been wondering if the FRIC itself isn't the problem, but perhaps a byproduct of FRIC that Charlie doesn't like (eg. it's behaving like a TMD or altering the cornerweight balance by shoving fluid around) might be at issue.

It's quite feasible to design a FRIC with interconnections that affect not only the suspension damping, but also other stuff.

Or this might just be a way to stop Merc from steamrollering the season totally.

Spa isn't many races away, and FI go quite well there usually. If there's a FRIC ban, Hulkenberg wouldn't be a bad bet...