More FIA Dice Rolling-FRIC Suspension to be Banned
Discussion
Mojocvh said:
Hmm. It gets banned in 14 days if you complain and at the end of season if you don't, talk about Hobsons choice...
If I was running a midfield team and I wanted to reduce the performance gap between myself and the front runners, I'd want to delete anything they gain significant performance from where I don't.A significant number of teams fall into this category.
Likes Fast Cars said:
entropy said:
Whiting has always said that there were technologies that he didn't want in F1.
More of the typical attitude from these guys in the FIA and Bernie's mates, they treat the sport like it's their own little fiefdom.It's supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport and yet they're constantly holding the cars back and crippling them. In the name of cost saving they introduced the most costly power plant ever devised. When innovations come, they stamp on them in favour of agricultural solutions. It's becoming a joke.
Then there's the championship manipulation to make it 'exciting'. Well they've been doing that for the last few years and it still isn't. This is just another example of it. Ooooh it looks like Mercedes are going to walk away with it, better find some way of zeroing the championship again so it's like it was for the first few races where no-one's cars worked properly. Thing is they did that last year and look what happened, another team walked away with it. Which will keep happening as long as the teams can't actually develop anything meaningful and test it.
I've given in this season. The last bout of changes have ruined F1 completely. It's been getting that way for a while, but they've properly shagged it now.
Look at MotoGP. There's a bloke there running away with the championship. There's no f
kery going on, yet the races are still brilliant.Until the big 3 say enough is enough and kick the FIA in the arse or into touch, F1 will just get worse. Sadly they'd need Ferrari on board to do this and they're back-handed so much from the FIA it's unlikely to ever happen.
Edited by juansolo on Thursday 10th July 09:39
entropy said:
Crafty_ said:
Been thinking about this, if FRIC is a movable device, then, surely any suspension is ?
Lets say we have a car that rolls in corners, if I fit stiffer shocks to one side, the car remains more level. Likewise a anti roll bar will do a similar sort of thing.
If I put stiffer units on the back it helps keep the car more level during acceleration.
I'm not sure of the distinction between conventional & FRIC based on what we've heard from Charlie.
Basically FRIC manipulates pitch and roll stability - which will affect rake, ride height, yaw - too much for its own good, like Lotus's anti-dive suspension.Lets say we have a car that rolls in corners, if I fit stiffer shocks to one side, the car remains more level. Likewise a anti roll bar will do a similar sort of thing.
If I put stiffer units on the back it helps keep the car more level during acceleration.
I'm not sure of the distinction between conventional & FRIC based on what we've heard from Charlie.
The FIA would rather the suspension be a rudimentary mechanical set up. Whiting has always said that there were technologies that he didn't want in F1.
REALIST123 said:
I think Whiting (fish by name, fishy by nature) just doesn't want anything he doesn't easily understand. This is about slowing Mercedes, IMO; audiences (as opposed to fans) are drifting away, something needs to be done at any cost.
The thing is, they think it's Mercedes running away with it is the reason people are drifting away... It really isn't. It's all the meddling that's done it. It wouldn't matter if it was Ferrari or RBR running away with it, it'd still be the same. Fuel saving, enforced tyre usage rules, general fkery with the championship is why people have had enough. The hybrid powerplants was the final straw for me. They've turned F1 into endurance racing for some idiotic reason when it should be an hour and a half sprint race. Instead it's all about preserving tyres, fuel and engines/gearboxes...juansolo said:
REALIST123 said:
I think Whiting (fish by name, fishy by nature) just doesn't want anything he doesn't easily understand. This is about slowing Mercedes, IMO; audiences (as opposed to fans) are drifting away, something needs to be done at any cost.
The thing is, they think it's Mercedes running away with it is the reason people are drifting away... It really isn't. It's all the meddling that's done it. It wouldn't matter if it was Ferrari or RBR running away with it, it'd still be the same. Fuel saving, enforced tyre usage rules, general fkery with the championship is why people have had enough. The hybrid powerplants was the final straw for me. They've turned F1 into endurance racing for some idiotic reason when it should be an hour and a half sprint race. Instead it's all about preserving tyres, fuel and engines/gearboxes...Last year was WORSE - RBR running away with it and having to watch the finger notch-up win after win.
This year has been by far a much better year by comparison. Why screw around with it?
Fishy, yes for sure.
I was discussing this work a friend yesterday and the thing that baffled him was that now the FIA have said they think it's illegal it only takes one team to protest it. We already know the FIA think it's illegal.
Crafty, in the past I recall the FIA talking about primary and secondary effects with issues like this. An anti-roll bar's primary effect is to move weight onto the inside wheel of the car in a corner, but a secondary effect, if you configure it so, is to keep the aero platform stable.
It seems to me like these FRIC were once legal - perhaps their primary effect was for mechanical grip - but as they've evolved some teams have come to use it for aerodynamic stability and thus its evolved into becoming illegal.
Crafty, in the past I recall the FIA talking about primary and secondary effects with issues like this. An anti-roll bar's primary effect is to move weight onto the inside wheel of the car in a corner, but a secondary effect, if you configure it so, is to keep the aero platform stable.
It seems to me like these FRIC were once legal - perhaps their primary effect was for mechanical grip - but as they've evolved some teams have come to use it for aerodynamic stability and thus its evolved into becoming illegal.
juansolo said:
REALIST123 said:
I think Whiting (fish by name, fishy by nature) just doesn't want anything he doesn't easily understand. This is about slowing Mercedes, IMO; audiences (as opposed to fans) are drifting away, something needs to be done at any cost.
The thing is, they think it's Mercedes running away with it is the reason people are drifting away... It really isn't. It's all the meddling that's done it. It wouldn't matter if it was Ferrari or RBR running away with it, it'd still be the same. Fuel saving, enforced tyre usage rules, general fkery with the championship is why people have had enough. The hybrid powerplants was the final straw for me. They've turned F1 into endurance racing for some idiotic reason when it should be an hour and a half sprint race. Instead it's all about preserving tyres, fuel and engines/gearboxes...zac510 said:
I was discussing this work a friend yesterday and the thing that baffled him was that now the FIA have said they think it's illegal it only takes one team to protest it. We already know the FIA think it's illegal.
Crafty, in the past I recall the FIA talking about primary and secondary effects with issues like this. An anti-roll bar's primary effect is to move weight onto the inside wheel of the car in a corner, but a secondary effect, if you configure it so, is to keep the aero platform stable.
It seems to me like these FRIC were once legal - perhaps their primary effect was for mechanical grip - but as they've evolved some teams have come to use it for aerodynamic stability and thus its evolved into becoming illegal.
So they are removing it because it can generate higher corner speeds by keeping the car flat, thus improving aero. Crafty, in the past I recall the FIA talking about primary and secondary effects with issues like this. An anti-roll bar's primary effect is to move weight onto the inside wheel of the car in a corner, but a secondary effect, if you configure it so, is to keep the aero platform stable.
It seems to me like these FRIC were once legal - perhaps their primary effect was for mechanical grip - but as they've evolved some teams have come to use it for aerodynamic stability and thus its evolved into becoming illegal.
Why not just ban wings and have done with it
Inertiatic said:
So they are removing it because it can generate higher corner speeds by keeping the car flat, thus improving aero.
Why not just ban wings and have done with it
I know what you mean but I guess wings have far too much history, precedent and rules around them to just be banned. Their primary effect is known and accepted, the interpretation of the rules around wings have been tested many times. The FRIC of course is still vague and without specific rules around it and open to interpretation. This must be an attempt to either tighten up that interpretation (set a stronger precedent) or just to outlaw it entirely.Why not just ban wings and have done with it
Talking about nobbling the favourites at their home race!
http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/493762/Merc...
Will be interesting to see what effect it has, most of us will need to re-think some of those (so far fairly easy) 1-2 predictions.
http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/493762/Merc...
Will be interesting to see what effect it has, most of us will need to re-think some of those (so far fairly easy) 1-2 predictions.
They really are a bunch of wkers. Stumbling from one poor decision to another.
It's time they all went; Bernie, his cronies, the whole fking lot. They couldn't run the proverbial piss up.
I just hope Mercedes still win and then protest every other team, in case they still have FRICS and give the FI fking A a whole load of work to do before Hungary.
kers. Stumbling from one poor decision to another.It's time they all went; Bernie, his cronies, the whole f
king lot. They couldn't run the proverbial piss up.I just hope Mercedes still win and then protest every other team, in case they still have FRICS and give the FI f
king A a whole load of work to do before Hungary.I think they should carry on an run it, let somebody protest, then see what the stewards have to say.
considering it's been used by Renault/Lotus since 2008, I suspect if dragged into court, the FIA would not have a leg to stand on, and that's before you consider the reg they are using to try and intimate it's illegal (anybody with a modicum of intelligence can see it's just bullst)
it's a shame Renault did not put up a fight over mass dampers, had they won that one, we would not have this st.
if Charlie doesn't like Fric, they should have written into the regs that it;s banned specifically, they have had 6 years to do this.
considering it's been used by Renault/Lotus since 2008, I suspect if dragged into court, the FIA would not have a leg to stand on, and that's before you consider the reg they are using to try and intimate it's illegal (anybody with a modicum of intelligence can see it's just bulls
t)it's a shame Renault did not put up a fight over mass dampers, had they won that one, we would not have this s
t.if Charlie doesn't like Fric, they should have written into the regs that it;s banned specifically, they have had 6 years to do this.
Gaz. said:
Leithen said:
Given that Ferrari have a bunch of ex Lotus engineers now working for them, I doubt they were behind this.
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