Sutil dropped?
Discussion
rubystone said:
This year's Enstone car looks pretty good to me....so with Merc power and tech, maybe it's a decent bet for 2015?
MAL: x1 12th
x2 14th
x1 15th
3 retirements (attributed to power unit)
1 did not start (fuel pump)
Average start: 18th
Average finish: 13th
GRO:
x2 8th
x1 11th
x2 12th
x1 14th
3 retirements (power unit, gearbox, rear wing)
Average start: 14th
Average finish: 10th
Not a patch on last years car imho.
Crafty_ said:
MAL:
x1 12th
x2 14th
x1 15th
3 retirements (attributed to power unit)
1 did not start (fuel pump)
Average start: 18th
Average finish: 13th
GRO:
x2 8th
x1 11th
x2 12th
x1 14th
3 retirements (power unit, gearbox, rear wing)
Average start: 14th
Average finish: 10th
Not a patch on last years car imho.
...of course not, but they are still paying for their 2014 focus. But take out the influence of the power unit and I think the car has a lot of development potential...unlike the Sauber. IMHO....x1 12th
x2 14th
x1 15th
3 retirements (attributed to power unit)
1 did not start (fuel pump)
Average start: 18th
Average finish: 13th
GRO:
x2 8th
x1 11th
x2 12th
x1 14th
3 retirements (power unit, gearbox, rear wing)
Average start: 14th
Average finish: 10th
Not a patch on last years car imho.
Vaud said:
Seriously?
Look at what else is around it...Enstone don't just 'forget' how to build a good car, even allowing for the departures. If I were a driver with a decent second division budget I'd look at FIF1 and Enstone first. It'll take Renault another year to develop that engine to Merc levels, so the Enstone switch is a masterstroke. And if I were looking to come into F1 they'd be top of my list....rubystone said:
Look at what else is around it...Enstone don't just 'forget' how to build a good car, even allowing for the departures. If I were a driver with a decent second division budget I'd look at FIF1 and Enstone first. It'll take Renault another year to develop that engine to Merc levels, so the Enstone switch is a masterstroke. And if I were looking to come into F1 they'd be top of my list....
I see your point, the engine is one point, the aero and funds to develop another. I can see them being the fastest 4th Merc team.I think the dev changes will allow other teams to catch up for 2015,
Likes Fast Cars said:
rubystone said:
Sutil brings at least £5m to the table with his personal sponsors. But VdG is married to the daughter of the guy that owns McGregor...from memory...so I guess he might trump Sutil...if he really wants to...but the Sauber is a dog and was a right handful at Silverstone...maybe VdG is better off chasing Maldonado's seat next year if PDVSA pull out?
So something has happened with the (Sutil0 sponsors and Sauber, performance clauses maybe? Therefore McGregor money would make sense, but FFS, you'd want to sponsor a driver who actually can bring some real return on your investment, wouldn't you?Is vdG's mrs cute?
Sutil should never have got the seat on this year's grid in the first place, he was out performed by a pretty average driver in Di Resta last season and the only reason he is still in F1 is sponsorship same as Maldonado, Chilton and Gutierrez. I know it has been going on for ages but I feel drivers should not be allowed to bring money to teams beyond covering their own wage so talent would be the major factor when teams chose drivers, I think the grid would look very different if that were the case.
f
k1_6 said:
k1_6 said: Sutil should never have got the seat on this year's grid in the first place, he was out performed by a pretty average driver in Di Resta last season and the only reason he is still in F1 is sponsorship same as Maldonado, Chilton and Gutierrez. I know it has been going on for ages but I feel drivers should not be allowed to bring money to teams beyond covering their own wage so talent would be the major factor when teams chose drivers, I think the grid would look very different if that were the case.
Yes, it would be nearly empty.Indirect pay driving also happens. Sponsors and cash go with top drivers.
Vaud said:
Yes, it would be nearly empty.
Indirect pay driving also happens. Sponsors and cash go with top drivers.
I don't think it would be empty, just different drivers and maybe 1 or 2 of the teams struggling for finances would be gone but I don't think that would be detrimental to F1. I know talent won't be the only factor as title sponsors, engine suppliers etc. will try to push teams a certain direction when selecting their drivers.Indirect pay driving also happens. Sponsors and cash go with top drivers.
It wouldn't make sense for Sauber to drop him as a) he brings some money to the team and b) he is more dependable than Gutierrez.
I agree he's been pretty dull this year after a very promising 2013 campaign. Last year he was handed a lifeline to restart his career and performed brilliantly, this year he's reverted to same old Sutil.
Though i don't really blame him as he hasn't been given the car he was expecting, in the hands of Sutil the Sauber is getting as far up the order as it can go, the car simply isn't fast enough to score points.
He does do a lot of whinging though, i think he picked that up from Di Resta last year. It's more of a sidestep for the team if they do put Van de Garde in, i can't say he'll be any better or worse than Gutierrez in the other car. In my opinion it would actually make more sense to replace the Mexican from the team's point of view.
ETA: Something that did irritate me about Sutil though was in Germany when he just walked away from his car leaving it in the middle of the track. Better drivers would have at least made an effort to push it back towards the barrier, but no he just wandered off knowing that there wasn't a Marshall post in the vicinity.
I agree he's been pretty dull this year after a very promising 2013 campaign. Last year he was handed a lifeline to restart his career and performed brilliantly, this year he's reverted to same old Sutil.
Though i don't really blame him as he hasn't been given the car he was expecting, in the hands of Sutil the Sauber is getting as far up the order as it can go, the car simply isn't fast enough to score points.
He does do a lot of whinging though, i think he picked that up from Di Resta last year. It's more of a sidestep for the team if they do put Van de Garde in, i can't say he'll be any better or worse than Gutierrez in the other car. In my opinion it would actually make more sense to replace the Mexican from the team's point of view.
ETA: Something that did irritate me about Sutil though was in Germany when he just walked away from his car leaving it in the middle of the track. Better drivers would have at least made an effort to push it back towards the barrier, but no he just wandered off knowing that there wasn't a Marshall post in the vicinity.
Edited by BarbaricAvatar on Tuesday 22 July 12:14
BarbaricAvatar said:
Last year he was handed a lifeline to restart his career and performed brilliantly,
Huh? The dour whinging Scot PDR out qualified and out scored him.Edited by BarbaricAvatar on Tuesday 22 July 12:14
Sutil scarcely deserved a seat first time around. He certainly doesn't deserve to be there now.
He's really quite a waste of time, if he didn't bring money.
toppstuff said:
BarbaricAvatar said:
Last year he was handed a lifeline to restart his career and performed brilliantly,
Huh? The dour whinging Scot PDR out qualified and out scored him.Edited by BarbaricAvatar on Tuesday 22 July 12:14
Sutil scarcely deserved a seat first time around. He certainly doesn't deserve to be there now.
He's really quite a waste of time, if he didn't bring money.
BarbaricAvatar said:
toppstuff said:
BarbaricAvatar said:
Last year he was handed a lifeline to restart his career and performed brilliantly,
Huh? The dour whinging Scot PDR out qualified and out scored him.Edited by BarbaricAvatar on Tuesday 22 July 12:14
Sutil scarcely deserved a seat first time around. He certainly doesn't deserve to be there now.
He's really quite a waste of time, if he didn't bring money.
If you are to judge him by "watching the race from start to finish" last season, he was the guy further down the grid when the race started than his team mate, and when the race ended.
Sutil was consistently slower than his team mate. Scored less points. He is therefore less successful. And he certainly has not "performed brilliantly" do use your own words, by any empirical measure.
He shouldn't be there.
He's only there because he has money.
He will never win a race.
He will never achieve anything. Ever.
He is a waste of a seat that some bright young talent could be using.
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