The Official German GP Thread 2014 *******Spoilers*****

[garycat]

Mini1275 said:

I was very surprised to not see a safety car after Sutil's incident, especially considering they've sent the SC out for much less beforehand. It seemed quite a big risk to put the marshals out in track at that point in the circuit.

Yeah, especially as the car seemed to be stuck in gear so I was expecting it to be craned out of the way. It's odd that the marshals were able to put it in neutral but Sutil couldn't.

[007 VXR]

Agree, s/c should have been used.

[Derek Smith]

BritishRacinGrin said:

Certainly, but if we all cast our minds back to racing school and 'grip circles', if you ask the tyre for directional change as well as braking you aren't going to be able to brake as effectively as if you weren't asking the tyres for directional change too. That was maybe the clumsiest thing I noticed, the sort of mistake you'd expect from a club level racer.

• awaits 'hater' accusations*

Or are you awaiting criticism from those who've seen club level racing? 'Cause whatever you can accuse LH of, being of that standard is not really on, now is it.

The bloke is a superb driver, as are a number around him. Just enjoy the racing.

[BritishRacinGrin]

I'm not going to bite, Derek.

[BritishRacinGrin]

Speedy11 said:

And this is why there should have been a safety car

Speedy11, thanks for going to the trouble of posting the pics, it does look a little different there than it did on my screen. Racing incident all over, of course, and I wouldn't have wanted Magnussen to be penalised.

You won't hear me disagreeing with you on the safety car, it certainly should've been deployed as soon as Sutil started unbuckling his belts.

[NRS]

RenOHH said:

Crafty_ said:

Sky trying to hype it up again, the interview asks him if he thinks it should have come out because of Rosberg in the lead and he replies with a flat out no.

Hmm, he really didn't have an answer for what he meant though. Stuttered and then changed the subject. So I think he did mean exactly that. He should've said something like "I think the FIA have responded to criticism over using the safety car too much/too long" or something.

Why? It's much more interesting that he says what he thinks, rather than boring grey answers. The questions are generally one of the most boring things about F1. You can say the answer before they even begin to answer, and thus they are completely pointless. It's much more interesting watching someone like Hamilton who actually says what he things (or says nothing if it's particularly bad like saying he thought Rosberg cheated/ feels disappointed because he really screwed something up for example.)

vonuber said:

Having watched the race, 2 things:

- The Mercs are still eyewateringly fast compared to the majority of the field
- Hamilton's risky overtakes (especially when not needed as the car is so much faster) cost him second, exciting as they are to watch

In regards to the second point - yes and no...

The Button incident probably cost him that. But if you then take into account the time lost being stuck behind slower cars if he didn't do some of the risky overtakes then he would have ended up at least 3rd if not worse.

[Silverbullet767]

No safety car for the 2 incidents near the end smacks of German assistance to Nico at the detriment of safety to the marshalls, a dangerous game to play.

[BritishRacinGrin]

I'm not sure Kvyat's fire required a safety car, he parked up some way from the circuit and the smoke was blowing away from the circuit.

Sutil though, certainly. I was amazed not to see a SC.

[VolvoT5]

BritishRacinGrin said:

I have to say I'm struggling big time with the Massa incident. Brundle quite quickly placed the blame with Massa, as did the majority of posters on here. I just don't see it; Magnussen wasn't alongside, not even close- Massa still had half a car length on him. Magnussen was driving into a closing wedge, target fixated on the back of Bottas' car. They showed us Massa's onboard and at no point do you see the Mclaren prior to Felipe's car getting launched.

I'm not saying that Magnussen should've been reprimanded, I'm just surprised that Massa is having to take all the flack.

Have a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srUViNIc8II

Notice how around 2 to 4 seconds into the video you can see Magnussen has his front wheels level with Bottas and is also about 3/4 of his car alongside of Massa who is on the outside. Magnussen is committed to the inside of the corner at that point and Massa concedes the corner to Bottas but then sweeps in from the outside to take the apex, without any consideration for the fact that Magnussen is there and has nowhere to go.

Between 4 - 5 seconds in you can see not only do both the Redbull drivers get through side by side, but also there are two cars behind them that negotiate the corner side by side as well. The main difference being the driver on the outside didn't sweep in and try to take the apex like Massa did.

Massa gets involved in quite a few of these 'racing incidents' and is always quick to point the finger at the other driver. My guess is other top drivers would not have been in this situation in the first place.

[VolvoT5]

Ps. Love all the safety car conspiracy stuff. Last few races Merc were apparently giving Lewis duff pitstops, yesterday Lewis got great stops but now apparently CW is trying to help Nico by not calling a safety car.

[Scuffers]

VolvoT5 said:

Ps. Love all the safety car conspiracy stuff. Last few races Merc were apparently giving Lewis duff pitstops, yesterday Lewis got great stops but now apparently CW is trying to help Nico by not calling a safety car.

lewis did not need duff pitsops yesterday as he was never in the running to challenge Nico.

as for the lack of SC, it's not so much bias as charlie lacking the balls to upset the crowd would be my guess..

[AMD87]

Could have been a test for next year to see what marshell can cope with to try and avoid the amount of safety cars next year with this new rule change.

[heebeegeetee]

We noticed at the start that Bottas did not place his car central in his grid space, which meant rubber was not on rubber, his tyres were on fresh tarmac. He then made a poor start, got wheelspin etc which compromised those behind him.

Felipe was then hampered by the poor nearside visibility these cars afford, but I think it's fair to say that both drivers involve themselves in too many shunts imo. At least Kevin has the excuse of being new to F1.

[suffolk009]

It's about time that F1 caught up with the ACO. At LeMans they've introduced slow-zones. Effectively 60mph (I think) whilst going through double waved yellows.

So simple.

[tenpenceshort]

Silverbullet767 said:

No safety car for the 2 incidents near the end smacks of German assistance to Nico at the detriment of safety to the marshalls, a dangerous game to play.

The FIA had decided prior to this race that they were not going to interfere with the racing as strongly as they have done in recent times. It just so happens on this occasion that Rosberg was a beneficiary of the policy. Had there been a safety car, Mercedes could easily have made a horlicks on the timing of Hamilton's stop and disadvantaged him more than he was with no safety car.

No doubt, had that happened, there would be some claiming the German safety car was sent out at the precise moment to help the German Rosberg and hinder Hamilton. That would equally be a pile of horsest.

[MGJohn]

BritishRacinGrin said:

I have to say I'm struggling big time with the Massa incident. Brundle quite quickly placed the blame with Massa, as did the majority of posters on here. I just don't see it; Magnussen wasn't alongside, not even close- Massa still had half a car length on him. Magnussen was driving into a closing wedge, target fixated on the back of Bottas' car. They showed us Massa's onboard and at no point do you see the Mclaren prior to Felipe's car getting launched.

I'm not saying that Magnussen should've been reprimanded, I'm just surprised that Massa is having to take all the flack.

All round visibility in modern Race cars is non-existent. Very poor in the case of F1 cars.

BBC's David C. expressed precisely the opposite view of the blame for the 'racing incident' just as quickly as Brundle. The Stewards' decision of no action was the correct one.

During the race, not at the start which is invariably manic, there were several similar incidents where a following driver placed the nose into a closing gap approaching a bend. Then not getting his car anywhere near fully alongside the other car in front, more like only half or a third overlap, sensibly backed out of it and so no harmful or dangerous contact. In most circumstances, the driver in front would be unable to see the following car unless properly alongside. Thus, the following driver is the only one in an ideal position to take positive action as they will always have a better view of things.

Magnussen did not back off. He was very lucky to escape relatively unscathed. Next time near identical circumstances could have a far more serious outcome for him. Luck runs out.

Hamilton had lady luck on his side quite a lot yesterday. Next time she may not be so generous.

Just the way I see some of these things.

[ewenm]

I was surprised the marshalls from the far side of the track went over the track to the stranded car rather than the marshalls coming up the pit lane to it. That seemed to be the most dangerous bit of retrieving the car under waved yellows.

One of ths support cars for the fire seemed parked in a dangerous place but in full visibility of approaching drivers and under waved yellows again, so someone would need to be very stupid to fly off the hairpin there and crash into it.

I was glad there were no safety cars for those two incidents. I thought Merc's decision to pit Hamilton so early for his final set of super-softs was risky given how fast they were wearing - maybe they were assuming a safety car would be deployed...

[otolith]

ewenm said:

I thought Merc's decision to pit Hamilton so early for his final set of super-softs was risky given how fast they were wearing - maybe they were assuming a safety car would be deployed...

That's the only explanation that makes sense to me.

[angrymoby]

MGJohn said:

Hamilton had lady luck on his side quite a lot yesterday. Next time she may not be so generous.

The only luck Hamilton had was that his car failed on the Saturday, rather than the Sunday

[oyster]

BritishRacinGrin said:

I have to say I'm struggling big time with the Massa incident. Brundle quite quickly placed the blame with Massa, as did the majority of posters on here. I just don't see it; Magnussen wasn't alongside, not even close- Massa still had half a car length on him. Magnussen was driving into a closing wedge, target fixated on the back of Bottas' car. They showed us Massa's onboard and at no point do you see the Mclaren prior to Felipe's car getting launched.

I'm not saying that Magnussen should've been reprimanded, I'm just surprised that Massa is having to take all the flack.

The blame from the BBC team quickly fell onto Magnussen.

So seems the stewards too the right decision then - racing accident.