The Official German GP Thread 2014 *******Spoilers*****
Discussion
Whilst I don't believe this, it is definitely possible that there was a german liason with CW in his random response bunker influencing him.
Normally, said liason would observe a crash happening and point clearly to its location with a straight arm and flat hand. CW would then know where to make his random response. Obviously, this time the signal hat nicht gekommt...
Normally, said liason would observe a crash happening and point clearly to its location with a straight arm and flat hand. CW would then know where to make his random response. Obviously, this time the signal hat nicht gekommt...
Silverbullet767 said:
Dave200 said:
Silverbullet767 said:
No safety car for the 2 incidents near the end smacks of German assistance to Nico at the detriment of safety to the marshalls, a dangerous game to play.
I don't often reply to threads in this section of PH, and seeing something this moronic written down in text explains why.The Germans don't decide when the safety car is deployed. In addition, with all those behind him being on completely battered tyres, and Nico having had a very easy run, do you think it would have made any difference at all? He would have probably overhauled a 1 second gap to the pack before DRS was enabled, and cruised off into the distance safe from any backmarkers.
Some of the tinfoil brigade on these F1 threads really take the biscuit...
Are you the same bloke who is always banging on about how his football team "was cheated"? Because that's exactly what this sounds like.
And no, I don't watch kickball, thanks.
If I typed something that sounded so stupid, I would probably expect to be ridiculed.
BritishRacinGrin said:
Certainly, but if we all cast our minds back to racing school and 'grip circles', if you ask the tyre for directional change as well as braking you aren't going to be able to brake as effectively as if you weren't asking the tyres for directional change too. That was maybe the clumsiest thing I noticed, the sort of mistake you'd expect from a club level racer.
But you're missing the point that he was in too hot and was trying to give room to Kimi, the mistake was getting there in the first place. Once there, he had to try and minimise the damage by treading a very fine line of steering input and releasing the brakes while not running deeper or wider and thus having a certain accident. What he did was stray slightly the wrong side of that very fine line. Did he actually make the apex? I'm not sure.- awaits 'hater' accusations*
As for grip circles, do you really think the Hamilton doesn't understand the issues of braking or accelerating while asking the tyres to deliver lateral force? Are you serious? Do you throw the same accusation every time someone loses the back under power?
I'm not childish enough for the hater / fanbois nonsense.
StottyEvo said:
Didn't you see what he did? He braked pretty much past the point that he should have done, from top speed. He locked all 4 wheels and seemingly pumped the brake pedal on the limit to allow the wheels to keep turning.
His judgement of speed and grip were superhuman. Absolutely exceptional racing.
Just mind blowingly good. I don't think you understand cars and physics if you think it was simply aggressive and lucky.
I'm not having a pop at him. Let's be honest, he got himself into a very tight spot there. The criticism that was being directed at him (not by me) was that he has the front wheels locked up with a little steering lock on (you're better than me at car dynamics apparently so you'll know the technical issue here - and it does challenge your 'superhuman' claim, I'm sure he didn't expect it all to get quite so tight when he went for that pass on two cars). My point was merely that he got in very hot and had to drive in the very grey area of balancing lateral grip and braking grip, it could have ended badly but didn't. I'd rather watch racers who try aggressive moves and can pull them off as opposed to those who don't or those that do but shouldn't. Lewis had the drive of the day for me.His judgement of speed and grip were superhuman. Absolutely exceptional racing.
Just mind blowingly good. I don't think you understand cars and physics if you think it was simply aggressive and lucky.
LDN said:
I've seen it a ton of times... how is it rare?
Maybe but, after the white lines or before? There's a difference. Why risk a penalty speeding AFTER the white line?I defy ANY F1 driver to manually adjust his speed to the efficiency of the car's limiter constraints AFTER the critical white line. Any attempt will either result in a slower transit time which is penalty in itself or faster one which will incur a penalty from the Stewards.
F1 drivers are good, but, not that good....
Hamilton and Rosberg came to the grid with braking systems that they were not 100% sure of.
Nico had the same front discs , Where as lewis were changed. But both cars reverted to a older style Brembro disc at the rear.
May also exsplain why Lewis locked the fronts when he slid into Kimi?
Nico had the same front discs , Where as lewis were changed. But both cars reverted to a older style Brembro disc at the rear.
May also exsplain why Lewis locked the fronts when he slid into Kimi?
rdjohn said:
From F1 Technical
A yellow flag is a general sign to notify drivers of a dangerous situation on the track that is not caused by themself.
A single yellow indicates danger ahead, such as debris from a crash. Drivers must slow down as they pass; no overtaking is permitted.
A double yellow, consisting of two flagmen waving yellow flags (or one waving two flags) at the same post, indicates great danger ahead. Drivers must slow down and be prepared to stop; no overtaking is permitted.
A yellow flag accompanied with a white sign with SC in black written on denotes that the safety car is on track and that overtaking is forbidden for the duration of the safety car period. A safety car is often used to allow the circuit crew to clear wreckage and clean the track for further racing.
It seemed incredulous that Charlie did not deploy the safety car with the Sauber unsighted about 1m off the racing line. I suppose that he relied solely on the teams telling their drivers where the hazard was located, but marshals running across the track to shift a car without the safety car seemed completely at odds with reasonable expectations.
The actual race outcome seems insignificant in comparison to his judgement in this instance.
I follow a rugby team and see all their matches, home and away. I video them all.A yellow flag is a general sign to notify drivers of a dangerous situation on the track that is not caused by themself.
A single yellow indicates danger ahead, such as debris from a crash. Drivers must slow down as they pass; no overtaking is permitted.
A double yellow, consisting of two flagmen waving yellow flags (or one waving two flags) at the same post, indicates great danger ahead. Drivers must slow down and be prepared to stop; no overtaking is permitted.
A yellow flag accompanied with a white sign with SC in black written on denotes that the safety car is on track and that overtaking is forbidden for the duration of the safety car period. A safety car is often used to allow the circuit crew to clear wreckage and clean the track for further racing.
It seemed incredulous that Charlie did not deploy the safety car with the Sauber unsighted about 1m off the racing line. I suppose that he relied solely on the teams telling their drivers where the hazard was located, but marshals running across the track to shift a car without the safety car seemed completely at odds with reasonable expectations.
The actual race outcome seems insignificant in comparison to his judgement in this instance.
There is no doubt, in fact I can prove, that there is home advantage with referees. Statistics show that there are more yellows per match on away matches than home, and the penalty figures are higher, yet the teams play the same. Forward passes, easily seen, are more often penalised for away matches than home. It happens, yet talk to a referee and it will be denied. I proved it once by compiling a video of poor calls, both for and against, and the majority, the comfortable majority, was against the away side. (I can't post the video as the club coach threatened me not to. Much too dangerous.)
I think there is a home driver bias.
I wonder if one trawled through previous GPs whether in similar circs CW called the SC.
That's not to suggest it was done consciously (although I have to say this was not a borderline case) or that there was any conspiracy. However, at the time it was clear to me that there would be a SC. Marshalls running across the track merely confirmed it.
That said, I consider that the SC is called too often. But even if my revised guidelines were followed, they still would have demanded a SC in this instance.
vonuber said:
Oh excellent, even more conspiracy theories. I dread to think what is going to happen if Hamilton doesn't become WDC this year.
Indeed.I'm impartial these days. No favourite driver, no tribalism. I am delighted to watch Alonso extract 100% from a dog of a car, I love to see Lewis put a bit too much front wing at risk, I love the Williams revival, Marussia points from the back, etc.
The last incident though was a bit odd, but I think it was badly managed rather than conspiracy. The marshalls running across the circuit should be replaced, following instructions or initiative...
PhillipM said:
I do like the fact that Massa has said he's going to tell the younger drivers to "take it easy" after all these incidents over the past few years.
You do that Massa, but I suggest you go back through them first, and find a common denominator to explain what's happening. Because the one I found, was you.
I'm not saying he hasn't had an unfortunate share of pure racing accidents, but a lot of the incidents have been through him being unwilling to give another driver any space on the track...
Felipe Massa as a F1 driver has never recovered from that bump on the head from his fellow countryman's coil spring, sadly.You do that Massa, but I suggest you go back through them first, and find a common denominator to explain what's happening. Because the one I found, was you.
I'm not saying he hasn't had an unfortunate share of pure racing accidents, but a lot of the incidents have been through him being unwilling to give another driver any space on the track...
VolvoT5 said:
[... Massa concedes the corner to Bottas but then sweeps in from the outside to take the apex, without any consideration for the fact that Magnussen is there and has nowhere to go....
Massa gets involved in quite a few of these 'racing incidents' and is always quick to point the finger at the other driver. My guess is other top drivers would not have been in this situation in the first place.
THIS! Kevin can't just disappear!Massa gets involved in quite a few of these 'racing incidents' and is always quick to point the finger at the other driver. My guess is other top drivers would not have been in this situation in the first place.
Rule one of Filipe. It's NEVER his fault
And that's why he's been outscored by EVERY team mate he's ever had.Derek Smith said:
vonuber said:
Oh excellent, even more conspiracy theories. I dread to think what is going to happen if Hamilton doesn't become WDC this year.
If you look at my post very carefully, like reading most words, you will see that it suggests no conspiracy. None. Zilch. Zip. Null. Nought.REALIST123 said:
As a man of letters Derek, you should know better. Despite your assertion that you are not suggesting a conspiracy, your post does, undoubtedly, imply that there is. I would suggest that you read it again.
Without wishing to put words in his mouth, I'd suggest that a conspiracy indicates a direct and deliberate attempt to do something whereas Derek's post to my mind indicated more that there was subconscious behaviour on the part of the decision makers not to go against the "home" team...PW said:
Silverbullet767 said:
Doesn't it make you the slightest bit suspicious?
Again; Safety Car is ultimately Whiting's call, not "the Germans". So why, exactly, do you think he was attempting to engineer a German home victory?He's bent? The whole sport is rigged? Mercedes' bung was bigger than Red Bull's this year? Where are you drawing the line?
As to name calling; are people not entitled to an opinion?
CW was heavily criticised for the delays at the British grand prix for the time it took to repair the armco barriers. A number of high profile people (Lauda included) spoke out about the issue and how there has been an over reaction to health and safety in F1.
Having been subjected to all that, perhaps CW judgement was affected and he thought twice about deploying the safety car and on this occasion went the other way and played the odds.
Of course it wasn't a conspiracy to not bring out the safety car, but was it in Charlie's mind about how much s
t he might get if his intervention altered the outcome of a race that Rosberg had in the bag on home soil? I am sure the outspoken Lauda would have had something to say.Clevers said:
.
Of course it wasn't a conspiracy to not bring out the safety car, but was it in Charlie's mind about how much st he might get if his intervention altered the outcome of a race that Rosberg had in the bag on home soil? I am sure the outspoken Lauda would have had something to say.
That sound a very plausible explanation to me.Of course it wasn't a conspiracy to not bring out the safety car, but was it in Charlie's mind about how much s
t he might get if his intervention altered the outcome of a race that Rosberg had in the bag on home soil? I am sure the outspoken Lauda would have had something to say.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff