Should the Russian GP Go Ahead?
Poll: Should the Russian GP Go Ahead?
Total Members Polled: 347
Discussion
RemarkLima said:
37chevy said:
....he may look like a strong leader but I expect he is basically a puppet being controlled by the wallets of rich men
See if you can find the documentary called "Putin, Russia and the West" - the guy is an ex-kgb megalomaniac loon... Power interests him far more than wealth. Still, I'm not sure about Russian involvement with the MH17 crash.
Do you have any money? Would you like to invest in a sure fire scheme I am dreaming up?
Yes, just because a few loonies who want to be a part of that country did something bad doesn't mean Russia should be punished (and even if it did it should be up to individuals to not put their money there by not watching the Russian GP or not going there etc).
Should the British GP have been cancelled in 1972 after Bloody Sunday or any time loyalists shot someone?
Should the British GP have been cancelled in 1972 after Bloody Sunday or any time loyalists shot someone?
longshot said:
It would be good if someone with some real clout started the ball rolling and other got onboard but they do seem to be too obedient. Hopefully they will make a stand on this.
If public / political pressure was mounting at home I could see a situation where Petronas don't want to race in Russia. However that would mean Merc walking away from a probable 50 championship points assuming the rest of the grid want to race.So most likely scenario there is merc race a car minus Petronas logos (would Petronas have to foot the bill for change of livery?)
There are a number of sponsors who will not be taking any clients to the Grand Prix and the teams are taking a smaller group of marketing and non essential people to this race. CVC could be under pressure from its banks, but would they force Bernie to cancel a race no.....will it happen in 2015, now that is an interesting point, possibly not and the calendar could be cancelled. Could a sponsor force a team not to go, no....could an engine supplier yes. Petronas may refuse to have its logo shown and some cars may run without logo's at this race too.
REALIST123 said:
RemarkLima said:
37chevy said:
....he may look like a strong leader but I expect he is basically a puppet being controlled by the wallets of rich men
See if you can find the documentary called "Putin, Russia and the West" - the guy is an ex-kgb megalomaniac loon... Power interests him far more than wealth. Still, I'm not sure about Russian involvement with the MH17 crash.
Do you have any money? Would you like to invest in a sure fire scheme I am dreaming up?
The Russian news sites have been blocked currently... But their media was asking why Ukrainian air traffic control diverted the flight over that area?
Remember, this is the same "west" who run national spying programmes on their own citizens, who supported Georgia and bolstered them into war with Russia, then sat by and watched the tanks roll over the country.
Economic sanctions have worked wonders in Syria... Oh no they haven't. They worked well after WWI, oh no, that's right, they were the direct consequence for WWII. They always appear to be a bit like hitting a p:$$3d off dog with a stick to calm it down.
My worry would be that a cynical West and / or Ukraine redirected the flight, in full knowledge that the rebels had a Buk SAM and being a bunch of drunken loons with little military protocol would fire first, ask questions later, and damn them to hell... Which would make whoever did that the real monsters!
RemarkLima said:
As DManning says, the rebels, whilst clearly supported by Russia, aren't Russia. Just as the Ukraine is clearly supported by Europe and the US. If it's arms supply that points the finger then there should by no F1 in the UK, or the US and swathes of Europe.
The Russian news sites have been blocked currently... But their media was asking why Ukrainian air traffic control diverted the flight over that area?
Remember, this is the same "west" who run national spying programmes on their own citizens, who supported Georgia and bolstered them into war with Russia, then sat by and watched the tanks roll over the country.
Economic sanctions have worked wonders in Syria... Oh no they haven't. They worked well after WWI, oh no, that's right, they were the direct consequence for WWII. They always appear to be a bit like hitting a p:$$3d off dog with a stick to calm it down.
My worry would be that a cynical West and / or Ukraine redirected the flight, in full knowledge that the rebels had a Buk SAM and being a bunch of drunken loons with little military protocol would fire first, ask questions later, and damn them to hell... Which would make whoever did that the real monsters!
Complete and utter BS - get your fThe Russian news sites have been blocked currently... But their media was asking why Ukrainian air traffic control diverted the flight over that area?
Remember, this is the same "west" who run national spying programmes on their own citizens, who supported Georgia and bolstered them into war with Russia, then sat by and watched the tanks roll over the country.
Economic sanctions have worked wonders in Syria... Oh no they haven't. They worked well after WWI, oh no, that's right, they were the direct consequence for WWII. They always appear to be a bit like hitting a p:$$3d off dog with a stick to calm it down.
My worry would be that a cynical West and / or Ukraine redirected the flight, in full knowledge that the rebels had a Buk SAM and being a bunch of drunken loons with little military protocol would fire first, ask questions later, and damn them to hell... Which would make whoever did that the real monsters!
ing facts straight first before writing such drivel.In fact, just get some facts before engaging either your tiny brain or putting your fingers to use on your keyboard.
RemarkLima said:
REALIST123 said:
RemarkLima said:
37chevy said:
....he may look like a strong leader but I expect he is basically a puppet being controlled by the wallets of rich men
See if you can find the documentary called "Putin, Russia and the West" - the guy is an ex-kgb megalomaniac loon... Power interests him far more than wealth. Still, I'm not sure about Russian involvement with the MH17 crash.
Do you have any money? Would you like to invest in a sure fire scheme I am dreaming up?
The Russian news sites have been blocked currently... But their media was asking why Ukrainian air traffic control diverted the flight over that area?
Remember, this is the same "west" who run national spying programmes on their own citizens, who supported Georgia and bolstered them into war with Russia, then sat by and watched the tanks roll over the country.
Economic sanctions have worked wonders in Syria... Oh no they haven't. They worked well after WWI, oh no, that's right, they were the direct consequence for WWII. They always appear to be a bit like hitting a p:$$3d off dog with a stick to calm it down.
My worry would be that a cynical West and / or Ukraine redirected the flight, in full knowledge that the rebels had a Buk SAM and being a bunch of drunken loons with little military protocol would fire first, ask questions later, and damn them to hell... Which would make whoever did that the real monsters!
IforB said:
What do you mean by diverted the flight? According to the MAS Ops Director, the aircraft was on it's filed flight plan when shot down. So I think it'd be best to put your tin foil hat on and check the facts before you spout out conspiracy theories based on absolutely nothing.
All I'm saying is what the Russian media has been reporting. I'd look at all angles before making judgement. So the US didn't lead Georgia into war with Russia and then sit back and do nothing? All I'm saying is that "the west" doesn't have a great track record either so don't believe all the propaganda stuffed down us.
It's an absolute tragedy, I regularly fly that air space to kl, en route to new Zealand, so it puts the fear of God into me, but I'm not going to judge until there's some actual facts...
I've never heard such utter ignorant drivel in my life.
Over 100 other flights followed that same flight track that day. Were they all being "diverted"?
What is really apparent is the old Soviet Era paranoia is still alive and well in Putin's Russia (and probably in the Eastern part of Ukraine as well).
And there is also a total unwilingness to be honest about what was done.
Russia's credibility as a trustworthy equal partner in world affairs has been utterly destroyed.
Over 100 other flights followed that same flight track that day. Were they all being "diverted"?
What is really apparent is the old Soviet Era paranoia is still alive and well in Putin's Russia (and probably in the Eastern part of Ukraine as well).
And there is also a total unwilingness to be honest about what was done.
Russia's credibility as a trustworthy equal partner in world affairs has been utterly destroyed.
IforB said:
What do you mean by diverted the flight? According to the MAS Ops Director, the aircraft was on it's filed flight plan when shot down. So I think it'd be best to put your tin foil hat on and check the facts before you spout out conspiracy theories based on absolutely nothing.
^ this - absolutely true.A number of airlines have now diverted air traffic via Romanian and Turkish air space to avoid the area. That area is a known and well used flight path.
Russian media (notably state-owned RT) has seen a number of journalists and reporters resigning due to the network's (and government's) attempted sanitisation of the facts; apparently RT and the Russian government have a view along the lines of (and I'm paraphrasing here): "there is more than one version of truth to events and we choose which one to report". Interestingly theirs is one which is based on complete fabrication and propaganda, almost as dishonest as North Korea's claims that they won the World Cup!
Eric Mc said:
I've never heard such utter ignorant drivel in my life.
Over 100 other flights followed that same flight track that day. Were they all being "diverted"?
What is really apparent is the old Soviet Era paranoia is still alive and well in Putin's Russia (and probably in the Eastern part of Ukraine as well).
And there is also a total unwilingness to be honest about what was done.
Russia's credibility as a trustworthy equal partner in world affairs has been utterly destroyed.
Well said. Over 100 other flights followed that same flight track that day. Were they all being "diverted"?
What is really apparent is the old Soviet Era paranoia is still alive and well in Putin's Russia (and probably in the Eastern part of Ukraine as well).
And there is also a total unwilingness to be honest about what was done.
Russia's credibility as a trustworthy equal partner in world affairs has been utterly destroyed.
I'm not denying anything, and I really do not know all the facts, but the general consensus appears to be that the US, UK and Europe are honest and up front with all the details, which history has shown a million times not to be the case... Equally the case for Russia.
It seems to be every appears to be squarely fingering the blame at Russia directly, and happily gloss over how many arms and munitions the UK has supplied over the years. If it's just arms supply then we're as guilty as Russia.
Malaysia hasn't really proven itself a great communicator with MH317... So, I hope they've learnt from the obfusication and tardiness with that one to be a bit more transparent.
Anyway, off to work - I'm not a tin foil hatted nutter, but you're all welcome to think so. The truth will come out I hope, but history shows there two side to everything.
ETA : http://rt.com/news/174496-malaysia-crash-russia-qu... (Russian state media I appreciate)
It seems to be every appears to be squarely fingering the blame at Russia directly, and happily gloss over how many arms and munitions the UK has supplied over the years. If it's just arms supply then we're as guilty as Russia.
Malaysia hasn't really proven itself a great communicator with MH317... So, I hope they've learnt from the obfusication and tardiness with that one to be a bit more transparent.
Anyway, off to work - I'm not a tin foil hatted nutter, but you're all welcome to think so. The truth will come out I hope, but history shows there two side to everything.
ETA : http://rt.com/news/174496-malaysia-crash-russia-qu... (Russian state media I appreciate)
Just because a nation is not 100% trustworthy does not mean they are COMPLETELY untrustworthy.
Just because the Russians and their Ukranian rebel allies have an alternative story does not mean that it carries equal value with the story we are getting.
How do you "divert" an airliner without drawing the crew's attention to the fact that they are being "diverted"? Did they give the crew different instructions to follow to deliberately place the aircraft within range of a missile system? Did they use a big magnet to pull it off course?
Just because the Russians and their Ukranian rebel allies have an alternative story does not mean that it carries equal value with the story we are getting.
How do you "divert" an airliner without drawing the crew's attention to the fact that they are being "diverted"? Did they give the crew different instructions to follow to deliberately place the aircraft within range of a missile system? Did they use a big magnet to pull it off course?
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