What happened to F1?
Discussion
Bradgate said:
Crafty_ said:
Interesting blog post from Will Buxton : http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/ne...
(Stands well back)
Thanks for posting that. It's excellent, and I agree with almost every word.(Stands well back)
The rose-tinted specs brigade are just plain wrong. The spectacle of F1 is currently as good as it has ever been in my time (ie since the mid '80s). The sport had to embrace turbo / hybrid technology to remain relevant and keep the manufacturers on board, and sadly the noise had to change. Apart from that, however, F1 has got it right on the track. Even Pirelli have finally got their act together.
The sport's business model has to change so that fans can afford to go to races, the teams can stay in business and employ drivers on merit, not for financial reasons.
The raw excitement has gone. Possibly forever.
The Fisher Price engine noise, ugly cars, lame tyre wars, driver faux-tension, zombie driver interviews, etc. etc.
F1 has become way too clinical, corporate and scripted.
F1 has far too many races on the calendar. It is oversupplied.
F1 should halve the global calendar to 10 races a year.
And immediately lift all restrictions on engine power, tyres and electronic gizmos.
We wanna see 2000bhp Ferraris with monster wings and parachute-brakes doing 300mph at Spa and 250mph in Monaco
lamboman100 said:
The raw excitement has gone. Possibly forever.
Wait... did you even watch Sunday's race? 
I dunno about you, but I've been watching F1 for over 25 years and I found Sunday's race one of the best races I can remember.
Still, I guess that if you have an agenda to follow you will follow it. I prefer to enjoy the good times and forgive the bad times.
JonRB said:
lamboman100 said:
The raw excitement has gone. Possibly forever.
Wait... did you even watch Sunday's race? I dunno about you, but I've been watching F1 for over 25 years and I found Sunday's race one of the best races I can remember.
Still, I guess that if you have an agenda to follow you will follow it. I prefer to enjoy the good times and forgive the bad times.
Mr_Thyroid said:
You definitely lose a lot by just watching highlights - I watched it in a pub with no sound and thought it was absolutely gripping.
JonRB said:
If ever there a race that simply could not be encompassed by a Highlights programme, it was Hungary 2014.
I could tell I was missing bits, far too much going on to be crammed into highlights, some obvious jumps where you were trying to figure out how x got ahead of y.Was a stunning race. But I'm not buying Sky just for F1, I refuse. I think it's not as simple as the BBC dropping the ball, surely FOM were pushing the price too high, trying to grab as much money, as usual their greed is detrimental to the fans, standard FOM?
Edited by scarble on Wednesday 30th July 09:00
scarble said:
I could tell I was missing bits, far too much going on to be crammed into highlights, some obvious jumps where you were trying to figure out how x got ahead of y.
Was a stunning race. But I'm not buying Sky just for F1, I refuse. I think it's not as simple as the BBC dropping the ball, surely FOM were pushing the price too high, trying to grab as much money, as usual their greed is detrimental to the fans, standard FOM?
Nope. When ITV decided to give up the rights BBC jumped in with a big offer, no other bids were received.Was a stunning race. But I'm not buying Sky just for F1, I refuse. I think it's not as simple as the BBC dropping the ball, surely FOM were pushing the price too high, trying to grab as much money, as usual their greed is detrimental to the fans, standard FOM?
Edited by scarble on Wednesday 30th July 09:00
2 years later BBC decides they are paying too much so did a deal with Sky, then went to Bernie to get his approval. IIRC a 2 year extension was added at the same time.
After the announcement the BBC were massively arrogant about the whole thing.
FWIW Sky do a good job, far better than the last year at the BBC, Jake had got far too smug and they all seemed to enjoy ganging up on Eddie, to the point they had to apologise on air for doing so. I had stopped watching the forum bits because it was crap.
Now Damon isn't so awkward in front of the camera he and Herbert have quite an amusing double act going.
Crafty_ said:
FWIW Sky do a good job, far better than the last year at the BBC, Jake had got far too smug and they all seemed to enjoy ganging up on Eddie, to the point they had to apologise on air for doing so. I had stopped watching the forum bits because it was crap.
Now Damon isn't so awkward in front of the camera he and Herbert have quite an amusing double act going.
I agree. The Sky coverage is absolutely outstanding. It's the best coverage we have ever had in the UK bar none. Now Damon isn't so awkward in front of the camera he and Herbert have quite an amusing double act going.
I think it would be a lot more palatable for people if they could subscribe to *just* the Sky F1 channel by whatever means (streaming, adding to a Virgin package, adding to Freeview (which I believe supports adding subscription channels), or whatever). Currently it seems you can only get it with a Sky Sports package (although I'm lucky enough to have it grandfathered in to an older Sky HD package).
JonRB said:
I dunno about you, but I've been watching F1 for over 25 years and I found Sunday's race one of the best races I can remember.
Absolute confirmation, if it was needed, that F1 is as dull as ditch-water, unless the race is enlivened by some unusual factor. In this case, rain.- The constructors championship is already over
- The drivers championship has only two contenders
- The second half of the season might as well be restricted to four teams.
- A 3 hour program with three minutes of action.
- Unwatchable, unless you have a digital recorder and a fast-forward button.
Qwert1e said:
Absolute confirmation, if it was needed, that F1 is as dull as ditch-water, unless the race is enlivened by some unusual factor. In this case, rain.
1. Don't watch qualifying then- The constructors championship is already over
- The drivers championship has only two contenders
- The second half of the season might as well be restricted to four teams.
- A 3 hour program with three minutes of action.
- Unwatchable, unless you have a digital recorder and a fast-forward button.
2. Just sit back and enjoy the on-track action, rather than concern yourself with the driver/constructor standings.
JonRB said:
I agree. The Sky coverage is absolutely outstanding. It's the best coverage we have ever had in the UK bar none.
I think it would be a lot more palatable for people if they could subscribe to *just* the Sky F1 channel by whatever means (streaming, adding to a Virgin package, adding to Freeview (which I believe supports adding subscription channels), or whatever). Currently it seems you can only get it with a Sky Sports package (although I'm lucky enough to have it grandfathered in to an older Sky HD package).
Yep, I'm in exactly the same situation with my subscription. I'd certainly be happy with a basic sky sub and the F1 channel, but obviously that means less income for Sky, so they will never do it. You can pay £9.99 for a day with the TV Now thing, but thats a bit steep really.I think it would be a lot more palatable for people if they could subscribe to *just* the Sky F1 channel by whatever means (streaming, adding to a Virgin package, adding to Freeview (which I believe supports adding subscription channels), or whatever). Currently it seems you can only get it with a Sky Sports package (although I'm lucky enough to have it grandfathered in to an older Sky HD package).
Qwert1e said:
Absolute confirmation, if it was needed, that F1 is as dull as ditch-water, unless the race is enlivened by some unusual factor. In this case, rain.
So would you like to explain Bahrain then ? was that dull as ditchwater too ?- The constructors championship is already over
- The drivers championship has only two contenders
- The second half of the season might as well be restricted to four teams.
- A 3 hour program with three minutes of action.
- Unwatchable, unless you have a digital recorder and a fast-forward button.
It really confuses me that people such as yourself even bother to watch F1 as you appear to hate it so much ?
Crafty_ said:
Nope. When ITV decided to give up the rights BBC jumped in with a big offer, no other bids were received.
2 years later BBC decides they are paying too much so did a deal with Sky, then went to Bernie to get his approval. IIRC a 2 year extension was added at the same time.
After the announcement the BBC were massively arrogant about the whole thing.
FWIW Sky do a good job, far better than the last year at the BBC, Jake had got far too smug and they all seemed to enjoy ganging up on Eddie, to the point they had to apologise on air for doing so. I had stopped watching the forum bits because it was crap.
Now Damon isn't so awkward in front of the camera he and Herbert have quite an amusing double act going.
I stand corrected. FOM are still s**ts though 2 years later BBC decides they are paying too much so did a deal with Sky, then went to Bernie to get his approval. IIRC a 2 year extension was added at the same time.
After the announcement the BBC were massively arrogant about the whole thing.
FWIW Sky do a good job, far better than the last year at the BBC, Jake had got far too smug and they all seemed to enjoy ganging up on Eddie, to the point they had to apologise on air for doing so. I had stopped watching the forum bits because it was crap.
Now Damon isn't so awkward in front of the camera he and Herbert have quite an amusing double act going.
I find the current BBC coverage good, Ben Edwards gives great race commentary, with the occasional confused and banal input from DC, talking about his son's biscuits and s**t. But DC does ok in the pre-amble stuff if you're in the mood for that, McNish is a fantastic addition and they're all rather good all round. Glad Jake is gone though, he really was annoying.. the way he kept pointing with his little finger, wtf is that all about?
I don't know how good the Sky coverage is, I saw a bit of it once and it was ok but the "SkyPad" concept is nauseating and I just do not want to pay for Sky and a "bundle" when all I want is the F1!
These old media types need to catch up, I'm paying.. I think less than £10 a month for Netflix, it's all on demand and the choice is better, I'm not paying for s**t I don't want.
Edited by scarble on Wednesday 30th July 10:05
I agree with Will Buxton's blog.
F1 (racing) is better than ever before. The cars can now run close together and circuits that used to create professional races in the aero sensitive era (Silverstone) now allow wheel to wheel racing. The Vettel/Alonso battle of 2014 simply couldn't have happened in most of the 2000-2013 era.
Rush captured the glamour of the 70s and I'll never be as sentimental over a W05 or RB10 as I would over a 312T2, but the racing was often very dull. People talk about Dijon 1979 mainly because such passing and repassing was quite rare. Take away the wheel banging, and Bahrain, Silverstone and Hockenheim featured battles that compared to Dijon.
The only improvements I'd like to see are 1) Tyres that still allow strategy mix up but aren't 5 secs a lap slower than they were in qualifying (Monaco 2013 was embarrassing) and 2) F1 doing a better job of marketing the brilliant show. MXGP, MotoGP...even BTCC do a better job of fan engagement, merchandising and social media.
F1 (racing) is better than ever before. The cars can now run close together and circuits that used to create professional races in the aero sensitive era (Silverstone) now allow wheel to wheel racing. The Vettel/Alonso battle of 2014 simply couldn't have happened in most of the 2000-2013 era.
Rush captured the glamour of the 70s and I'll never be as sentimental over a W05 or RB10 as I would over a 312T2, but the racing was often very dull. People talk about Dijon 1979 mainly because such passing and repassing was quite rare. Take away the wheel banging, and Bahrain, Silverstone and Hockenheim featured battles that compared to Dijon.
The only improvements I'd like to see are 1) Tyres that still allow strategy mix up but aren't 5 secs a lap slower than they were in qualifying (Monaco 2013 was embarrassing) and 2) F1 doing a better job of marketing the brilliant show. MXGP, MotoGP...even BTCC do a better job of fan engagement, merchandising and social media.
Crafty_ said:
Yep, I'm in exactly the same situation with my subscription. I'd certainly be happy with a basic sky sub and the F1 channel, but obviously that means less income for Sky, so they will never do it. You can pay £9.99 for a day with the TV Now thing, but thats a bit steep really.
I think that all the people who would have bought into Sky for the F1 now already have. Ok, BSkyB might lose a few quid to people downgrading, but I think they'd more than make up for that with new subscribers. The Now TV thing does indeed sound rather steep. If it was £9.99 for the entire race weekend (Friday practise, Saturday practise & qualifying, and Sunday race) then that might be justifiable to many people. That would feel reasonable value for money to me.
In MotoGP we have one rider winning everything. Yet it's not boring because he rides like a loon and you get some good battles, and I dont mean a battle as in follow on someones wing for 10 laps.
I am enjoying F1 this year but think it's maybe too complicated now. Just wish it was a bit less tedious with gimmicks like DRS etc and address the problem of too much aero which prevent close racing.
Overtaking is mostly too easy with drivers on different tyres or having DRS so overtakes just feel a bit plastic. A lot of praise for riccardo overtaking but when a driver cant defend it's never the same as when you have a back and forth fight between two drivers on similar tyres.
I just think the whole strategy, with dozens of people and computers controlling the race is tedious. I'd just like it if they could race flat out start to finish without managing tyres and fuel to the extent they have to.
FWIW I quite like KERS and hybrid systems.
I am enjoying F1 this year but think it's maybe too complicated now. Just wish it was a bit less tedious with gimmicks like DRS etc and address the problem of too much aero which prevent close racing.
Overtaking is mostly too easy with drivers on different tyres or having DRS so overtakes just feel a bit plastic. A lot of praise for riccardo overtaking but when a driver cant defend it's never the same as when you have a back and forth fight between two drivers on similar tyres.
I just think the whole strategy, with dozens of people and computers controlling the race is tedious. I'd just like it if they could race flat out start to finish without managing tyres and fuel to the extent they have to.
FWIW I quite like KERS and hybrid systems.
KERS is now known as MGU-K (motor generator unit kinetic). This generates electrical power from braking. The maximum amount they are allowed to recover is 2 mega joules per lap.
MGU-H is a regenerative system that converts heat in the exhaust gases to electricity. the H stands for heat. Recovery is limited.
Collectively the MGU units are known as the ERS system (Energy Recovery System), the systems are permitted to deploy a max of 4 mega joules per lap, worth about 160bhp for roughly 30 seconds or so.
MGU-H is a regenerative system that converts heat in the exhaust gases to electricity. the H stands for heat. Recovery is limited.
Collectively the MGU units are known as the ERS system (Energy Recovery System), the systems are permitted to deploy a max of 4 mega joules per lap, worth about 160bhp for roughly 30 seconds or so.
I followed F1 from the mid/late 80's. But stopped this year. The V6 turbo sounds like a constipated camel.
Apart from that, F1 has been losing its soul for the last decade. The final engine change did it for me.
One of the defining things about F1 for me, is that it was the pinnacle of motorsport in every respect. You only had to HEAR an F1 car to know it was like nothing else on the road that us mere mortals would experience.
I hear better sounding cars on A roads at the weekend than todays F1 offerings.
Apart from that, F1 has been losing its soul for the last decade. The final engine change did it for me.
One of the defining things about F1 for me, is that it was the pinnacle of motorsport in every respect. You only had to HEAR an F1 car to know it was like nothing else on the road that us mere mortals would experience.
I hear better sounding cars on A roads at the weekend than todays F1 offerings.
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