The Official Hungarian GP Thread 2014 *******Spoilers*****

The Official Hungarian GP Thread 2014 *******Spoilers*****

Author
Discussion

MGJohn

10,203 posts

182 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Joffery666 said:
I've honesty never seen someone as 'obsessed' as this no body talking about Lewis Hamilton (in a bad light) ....

You obviously have a build up of frustration, just take a picture of him into the bathroom, and be done with it...

Good lord.

MGJohn said:
It is quite possible. Although with insufficient evidence, impossible to say and the teams are unlikely to tell us one way or another. More than one of Vettel's car problems happened before the races or even before FP 1-2-3. Still could be because he is harder on the cars previously.

The previous four years, Vettel had fewer DNFs or car trouble than Webber. Obviously, that was "favouritism" .... hehe

Irrespective of causes, one thing is certain, Vettel has a superior DNF total than Hamilton this current season. ... hehe

I'm now off to check and see how often Vettel has qualified in front of his aussie team mate. i.e. "out driven" .... Bet it's none......

So ..... four weeks is too long in F1.
Good grief man. Get a grip man. You've obviously not been feeling yourself lately even without illustrated aids. rolleyes

I was asked a question by NRS and responded. I have opinions and express them. Yes, guilty of all that and my various obsessions include Motor Racing.

Had I have ignored the question or, not bothering to answer, no doubt oh so clever you would come on accusing me of being rude and ignorant.

By the way, congratulations on such an informative and insightful posting.

Sheeesh!



JonRB

74,394 posts

271 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Ecurie Ecosse said:
I'll repeat it again so you can understand. I was genuinely excited when Hamilton arrived on the scene. I liked him. But now I think he is an arse. Nothing to do with money, nor his driving ability.

Can you understand that? I did like him. But now I don't. Simply because he is an arse.

Pretty straightforward.
No. You dislike him because you perceive him to be an arse. Or because your entirely personal opinion is that he is one (rightly or wrongly). Or for whatever reason causes you to make this statement.

Not because he ipso facto *is* one. There is a difference.

JonRB

74,394 posts

271 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Ecurie Ecosse said:
Fair enough, I agree with that.
thumbup

JonRB

74,394 posts

271 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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My estimation of you just went up, sir. smile

johnfm

13,668 posts

249 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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S0 What said:
London424 said:
It's not about hindsight...it's the fact the team split strategies...which is something they said they wouldn't do. If Rosberg was put on the Softs to do 2 stops, then they should have followed suit with Hamilton.
Merc never said they would not SPLIT strategys, they have split them in many races so far this year!
What they said was they would not CHANGE strategy during the race unless something unusuall happened and lewis ending up in front of Nico from the pit lane (due to the safety car i know) was unexpected if not unusuall, this put thier strict sticking to the strategy ethos into disarray and led to the paniced " let Nico pass" call.
IMHO a team that plans to never chage strategy is a team that has a weak backup strategy, as proven in Hungary.
I would think the only split strategy to look at would shave been slick or intermediate in case the rain came.

Since they must have thought the rain was not coming and chose the dry weather tyres, I cannot follow the logic behind two different dry weather strategies UNLESS their practice data suggested the difference between the two tyre strategies was negligible.

If the difference was significant, they would have chosen the faster tyre strategy for both drivers.

If both tyre choices were very similar as modelled, surely they should have considered 'worse case' scenario if their modelling is out. I would expect the once stop strategy would have been the riskier of the two - relying on a tyre not going off after 30 laps.

It just seems to have been poorly considered to not put the fastest tyre on the car.

b0rk

2,289 posts

145 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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johnfm said:
Since they must have thought the rain was not coming and chose the dry weather tyres, I cannot follow the logic behind two different dry weather strategies UNLESS their practice data suggested the difference between the two tyre strategies was negligible.

If the difference was significant, they would have chosen the faster tyre strategy for both drivers.

<snip>

It just seems to have been poorly considered to not put the fastest tyre on the car.
Thinking more about it both strategies where predetermined prior to the race start when starting on the inter became obvious. The inability of merc to react to a changed situation cost the team and both drivers points and probably the race win.

P2 long runs had shown the hard to have the same deg as the soft but also be significantly slower over a stint.
The plan IMHO was inter > soft > hard for Lewis on basis that he wouldn't be able to overtake the front runners so needed to do one less stop and gain a jump by saving 25 secs for a pitstop. Nico's plan was inter > soft > soft > soft designed to keep him at the front.

NRS

22,078 posts

200 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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MGJohn said:
NRS said:
MGJohn, I have a question about your view on Vettel's DNFs. You've said a few times you think Hamilton is probably harder on the car than Rosberg because of the DNFs. Does that mean you're thinking Vettel is harder on the car since he's had a lot more failures than DR?
It is quite possible. Although with insufficient evidence, impossible to say and the teams are unlikely to tell us one way or another. More than one of Vettel's car problems happened before the races or even before FP 1-2-3. Still could be because he is harder on the cars previously.

The previous four years, Vettel had fewer DNFs or car trouble than Webber. Obviously, that was "favouritism" .... hehe

Irrespective of causes, one thing is certain, Vettel has a superior DNF total than Hamilton this current season. ... hehe

I'm now off to check and see how often Vettel has qualified in front of his aussie team mate. i.e. "out driven" .... Bet it's none......

So ..... four weeks is too long in F1.
I guess a few of Hamilton's problems have resulted in qualifying, so you could perhaps say the sme thing. Plus as you mentioned it's all the wearn and tear added up over the time for the parts. You'd hate to see Webber's DNFs this season with him being harder on the car than Vettel, :P

However in the view of fairness Hamilton had a DNF less than Rosberg last season, so perhaps less likely that he is worse on the car in general?

No idea what the other poster was having a pop at you about there, hehe The only thing I can see "negative" about Hamilton there was that Vettel had more DNFs this season... perhaps he thinks you're being negative about Hamilton because he's not winning the DNF battle? :P

Edited by NRS on Wednesday 30th July 07:33

johnfm

13,668 posts

249 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
b0rk said:
johnfm said:
Since they must have thought the rain was not coming and chose the dry weather tyres, I cannot follow the logic behind two different dry weather strategies UNLESS their practice data suggested the difference between the two tyre strategies was negligible.

If the difference was significant, they would have chosen the faster tyre strategy for both drivers.

<snip>

It just seems to have been poorly considered to not put the fastest tyre on the car.
Thinking more about it both strategies where predetermined prior to the race start when starting on the inter became obvious. The inability of merc to react to a changed situation cost the team and both drivers points and probably the race win.

P2 long runs had shown the hard to have the same deg as the soft but also be significantly slower over a stint.
The plan IMHO was inter > soft > hard for Lewis on basis that he wouldn't be able to overtake the front runners so needed to do one less stop and gain a jump by saving 25 secs for a pitstop. Nico's plan was inter > soft > soft > soft designed to keep him at the front.
Yep - that one stop would have made sense had LH been at the rear somewhere and not made his way though te back markers.

It was clear quite a few laps before the pit stop that he was 20+ sec clear of Rosberg. Easy at that point to get out a set of unused super softs - he had a few unused sets!

Megaflow

9,345 posts

224 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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Time to ignore this one...

Catatafish

1,361 posts

144 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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London424 said:
It's not about hindsight...it's the fact the team split strategies...which is something they said they wouldn't do. If Rosberg was put on the Softs to do 2 stops, then they should have followed suit with Hamilton.
Why would they have hard and fast rules anyway? Why broadcast what their plans are to everyone? Be flexible and adapt to changing conditions if that is your assessment but the trouble is you don't know what is going to happen in the race. There are too many factors that can flip the outcome. That is why teams split strategies because they have equal risk at that point in time.

MGJohn

10,203 posts

182 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
Catatafish said:
London424 said:
It's not about hindsight...it's the fact the team split strategies...which is something they said they wouldn't do. If Rosberg was put on the Softs to do 2 stops, then they should have followed suit with Hamilton.
Why would they have hard and fast rules anyway? Why broadcast what their plans are to everyone? Be flexible and adapt to changing conditions if that is your assessment but the trouble is you don't know what is going to happen in the race. There are too many factors that can flip the outcome. That is why teams split strategies because they have equal risk at that point in time.
Any more sensible and reasoned posts like that Catatafish on these F1 threads and no doubt you'll be barred! Stop it at once or you'll be sorry ... wink



JonRB

74,394 posts

271 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
Catatafish said:
Why would they have hard and fast rules anyway? Why broadcast what their plans are to everyone? Be flexible and adapt to changing conditions if that is your assessment but the trouble is you don't know what is going to happen in the race. There are too many factors that can flip the outcome. That is why teams split strategies because they have equal risk at that point in time.
There's a famous quote along the lines that all a split strategy does is guarantee that one of your cars is on the wrong strategy. biggrin

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
MGJohn said:
Catatafish said:
London424 said:
It's not about hindsight...it's the fact the team split strategies...which is something they said they wouldn't do. If Rosberg was put on the Softs to do 2 stops, then they should have followed suit with Hamilton.
Why would they have hard and fast rules anyway? Why broadcast what their plans are to everyone? Be flexible and adapt to changing conditions if that is your assessment but the trouble is you don't know what is going to happen in the race. There are too many factors that can flip the outcome. That is why teams split strategies because they have equal risk at that point in time.
Any more sensible and reasoned posts like that Catatafish on these F1 threads and no doubt you'll be barred! Stop it at once or you'll be sorry ... wink
The reason they announce they won't split strategies is as JonRB points out...one of the drivers is on the wrong one!

They don't want to demonstrate favouritism between one driver or another. So keeping them to the same number of stops shows equal treatment.

Catatafish

1,361 posts

144 months

Thursday 31st July 2014
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MGJohn said:
Any more sensible and reasoned posts like that Catatafish on these F1 threads and no doubt you'll be barred! Stop it at once or you'll be sorry ... wink
Sorry, won't happen again wink

Interestingly, Nico has commented on the timing of the safety car on the Beeb website as being bad, but does not mention the previous races where SCs (or lack of them) helped him out.